Stihl MS361 upgrades and options

windthrown

We have E-10 here in Oregon as well. Pull the limiter caps on the H&L screws on the carb and trim off the tabs. Then re-insert them in the carb and re-tune the 361 to 14k WOT with a good tach. It will run fine.

The 3/4 wraps are great. I prefer them to half wraps on the 60cc+ saws. Especially when you are limbing and working on fallen trees. It gives you way more angles to get at the limbs being able to cut with the saw flipped over to the opposite side.

bipot

Thanks again windthrown! OK, that convinces me of the 3/4 wrap. Now, in addition to the 1135 007 1007 kit, I am going to have to purchase a good tach and 25" bar with new chains. Can I get the Stihl kit locally from a dealer? Do you sell this? What tach? Are either of the Stihl ones good or could there be another cheaper or as good? Last question - What 2 cycle oil are you mixing - pure synthetic ultra or another brand? Are you still using 50:1 ratio? Sorry, was not the last question - should the muffler be modified to reduce the heat? I guess I am just full of questions. Maybe I need a class in beautiful Oregon! Just kidding but maybe not! Thanks again.

MS 390 (Denmark)

welcome to the 361 famely I have just ordered this tach Design Technologies. Hand-Held economical tachometers. Wireless tachometers. every that had bought this one,like it alot ........

__________________
Best regards Jan

Stay Sharp....

My Saws: STIHL 046,MS361,MS200,MS192T

bipot

Thanks MS390, I will definitely look into that tach. Have been a 361 fan for at least 3 years and love it! Just don't want anything to happen in the way of destructive detonation ! Have a good day!

MS 390 (Denmark)

I follow you........

__________________
Best regards Jan

Stay Sharp....

My Saws: STIHL 046,MS361,MS200,MS192T

windthrown

To answer some of your questions:

Saw tach: I have a Tech Tach TT-20K from DTI (same web site listed above, the second tach down) and they work great. They store the highest rev recording, they have a fast refresh rate, and they have replaceable batteries. They also come with wireless and wire leads. I have never had to use the wires though. I set it on the top of the saw and read the RPMs on a digital scale. Only takes a few seconds to tune a saw with it.

The 3/4 wrap kit is available through your local Stihl dealer. Just order it by the part number. I get them for guys overseas that cannot get them and ship them to them, but its complicated and would cost you way more money than buying one yourself.

I use Elf 100% synthetic oil at about 45:1. I used to use Mobil 1 100% synthetic, but they quite selling it in the states about 2 years ago. Elf is good stuff, it has a blue dye, and it is rated JASO FC/FD, which is one of the higher test ratings for 2 stroke oil. It is available at most motrocycle shops. There is much debate about which oil to use and what ratio to use it at. Some forums have had raging dabates on this subject running for over 10 years. I use a slightly richer oil mix becasue there is good evidence that more oil allows for a better ring seal, and thus more power. It also helps with low end bearings and seals. Running a good oil at 50:1 is fine though. I use 100% synthetic because there is good evidence and feedback from saw shop service technicians that pure synthetics run better than than semi-synthetics or dyno oil. Also pure synthetics produce far less smoke.

I also use supreme gas; most saws are designed to run mid-grade or better gas. Premix oil lowers the octane of gas, and gas goes down in octane pretty fast once it is refined, especially ethanol blended gas. So I add StaBil red gas stabilizer as soon as I buy my gas to keep the octane higher, and keep all kinds of crap from happening using ethanol blended gas. StaBil will keep gas fresh for a year or more, and keep the ethanol in gas from phase separating if it has absorbed any water.

Muffler mods are harder to do on the 361 because they crimped the muffler cover onto the muffler. This is unlike earlier model Stihl saws where the muffler cover was bolted on with torx bolts. There are many threads on this mod here and on some other forums online; I would recommend doing a Google search on them and read them over. Many styles and types, some are more complicated (with brazing or welding) and some are simple shark gill types. Muffler mods will allow you to get more power and they will allow the saw to run cooler and likely last longer. You can get carried away with mods though, and there are many levels and stages that you can go to mod a saw. You can read several saw mod threads here as well as elsewhere on the web.

bipot

Thanks for responding to all of those newby type questions. I can tell that from the answers that I have the most authoritative answer to those. I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out. I will be getting with the local Stihl dealer here very soon. I have a lot of planning to do. I am going to look into the tachs at DTI today. I have been using the standard 2 cycle oil from Stihl at 50:1, but am changing that practise immediately. I am going to find new 100% synthetic and blend at 45:1 as you do. Will also use the premium gas. I already use Stabil and have during the life of the saw thus far. I have never had a problem with the saw and it runs like a top. I don't use it as you probably use yours professionally. So, I hope that it is still in good condition. One of our members had his engine blow up on an MS290, from "too lean" condition. That occurence skarked a lot of concern for me. The MS361 was not a cheap saw and I do not want to have to replace the piston and cylinder in that engine. I do not know what to do with the muffler, so I will do some more research. Thanks again!
Bill

windthrown

Ah well, I am not an expert. I just know the Stihl saws pretty well, and I have used them a lot, torn them down and rebuilt them, and modified several. I know a lot about the 290/310/390 and the 260, 361, 440 and 660, and the 210/230/250 saws. And big old Macs... and baby Echos. Some guys here have had the 361's burn up on them same as your buddy with his 290. Therrin in particular posted a thread on this forum about a year or so ago on his 361 scoring. Look on my 026 threads for photos of heat damage and scored cylinders, and the causes of them.

Another indicator of your carb being set right is to make a nice 30 second or longer WOT cut with your chainsaw buried in wood. Then kill the saw from WOT. Let it cool off, and pull the plug. If it is a nice medium chocolate brown, you are dialed in just right. If it is light tan or white, it is too lean (or there may be an air leak). If it is black or oily, it is too rich (muffler screen or air filter may also be clogged up). Look on this site for my Stihl chainsaw tuning info, and there are all the steps for doing the H, L and idle adjustment.

Oh, and one issue with th 361 is to keep the air filter on tight. The screw on the back of the air filter should be sinched down with a screwdriver. O/w dust can get into the carb past the filter. The other issue is to not use the decomp when a 361 is cold and you are using the choke on full. You will tend to flood the saw that way.

bipot

Good information Windthrown. I do not think I have been tightening the cover on the airfilter with the scrench but by hand. I will definitely do so from hereonin. Always use the decomp when cold and full choke. Generally kicks off into half choke with no more than 2 pulls. Then push in the decomp and start up with enough throttle to release the choke. Doe's this sound right?

I have ordered the Tech Tack TT-20k from DTI. Have been over in AS looking at Lakeside Andy's 361 muffler mod thread. Lot of info there. Looks like I should modify mine using his technique. Have you done that to yours? I assume that 14k wot for the h set would be ok even after that muffler mod?

I now have to order the kit for the 3/4 wrap etc., 25" bar & chains. Need to change 2 cycle oil and the blend too. I sure cannot let this saw burn up on me. Thanks again.

Bill

windthrown

Sounds like you have mastered the 361 decomp and cold starting. That is the way to start them. I have debated with a lot of people over the years about cold starting the 361 with the decomp set. Many people miss the rumble and pop and flood them by leaving the saw on full choke too long. The LA fire department went as far as tying off the 361 rescue saw decomps with plastic zip ties so that they would not flood when cold started. I have never had that issue, but some of us have the touch I guess? For the people that flood them, I recommned not using the decomp for cold starting a 361.

I generally do not snug my air filters with the scrench unless I am noodling rounds or I know I am going to cut in dusty conditions. If you have a good grip and can snug them by hand, which is fine. Just keep in mind that they can get loose. There has also been an unlimited amount of flap over the air filters on the 361, and in almost all cases they were using the thinner screen type winter filter, or they were not tightening the air filter down enough. Then there are the ads by Husky that ballyhooed about the "crappy" air filtering in the Stihls, and how Husky saws have better air cleaning by centrigugal force. Well, because of that all the new Stihls (except the 441) have screw-down air filters and centrifugal air cleaners on them now. It takes an effort to clean them, but oh, they need cleaning less often! Whoop-t-do! I never found the air filter cleaning to be an issue on any Stihl saw that I have owned. But predatory marketing makes believers out of anyone out there.

Andy is a good fellow, and he and I parted AS for similar reasons about the same time. I have bought saws and parts from him since we left AS. He lives not to far from here north of Seattle. He is an excellent Stihl tech. For the 361 though, I found that his method is fairly complicated and I do not like the welded or brazed tubes that he and many use on many of the 361 muffler mods. You can cut shark gills and bend them out, or just drill holes on the lower right perimiter side (the lower right perpendicular plane when you are facing the muffler from the front of the saw) and add a sparc screen and rivet or screw a Husky muffler deflector cover on them. If you read my opinion about muffler mods, I believe that you need to have a back-pressure shock plane or baffle to keep the gasses from leaking out the exhaust with back pressure. Old school Yamaha Enduro and Suzuki 2-stroke motorcycle racing and engine rebuilding experience. Andy's method works fine (if you have the tools to do it with).

14k is the nominal WOT setting speed for a lot of Stihl saws. All Stihl specs are +/- 500 RPM, so you can actually raise a stock saw to 14.5k. Modded 14.5k works fine for me on my modified muffler saws (026, 361, & 044). Many modifiers I know go to near 15k without much trouble on an all day runner work saw. In the cut, WOT is a lot lower, so the likelyhood of the overrevving issue is less if you do not WOT your saw out of the cut that much. BTW: all saw tuning should be done with the bar and chain that you are typically using on the saw. That preloads the engine for proper tuning.

bipot

Thanks Windthrown! I have learned more about the 361 and Stihl in 2 days than I have learned in 3+ years. Wish I had joined in this forum much earlier. Think I would have been further along now. You have been great to put up with my questions and lack of experience.

Bill

ciccio

Hello Windthrown,

You have helped me in the past and hope u can deal with a couple more questions, I read your post where you say you use Elf 100% synthetic oil, now is that 10w-30 or 5w-30 can you tell me exactly what you use and how do you get it to 45:to1 or 50:to1 I just use the orange pre mix from stihl and just add a gallon of super gas, also my saw is brand new did not even go thru 1 tank of gas yet is it ok to put the synthetic oil in yet, again sorry for the stupid question but i just want to do the right thing. I also see that elf oil is now called Total oil is this correct i did a search on google and thats what the website said i just want to be sure I am looking at the right stuff here.
Thanks in advance for the help you give me agiain sorry to bother you with the dumb question.

Thanks Ciccio

windthrown

Huh? You are confusing 4 stroke car oil with 2-stroke motor oil. 2-stroke oil is not sold by multi-viscosity weight. I think it is all 30 wt, but that is meaningless in 2-stroke oil. You buy 2-stroke oil and mix it into a can of gas. I mix it at 45:1, but it is 50:1 oil and will run fine when mixed at 50:1. 50:1 is 2.6 fluid ounces of oil per gallon of gas. Here is a web site that figures out what amount of oil to mix in any amount of gas that you have, to get whatever gas to oil ratio that you want:

Gas Oil Mixture Ratio Calculator

Lots of subtle issues with 2-stroke oil and I do not want to get into the endless details here. You can do a search on the web and get a million answers about what 2-stroke oil to use and why, and at what ratio, etc.

Years ago I used Castrol 2T 2-Stroke motorcycle oil becasue its cheap, its available at any auto parts store, and it is made for air cooled engines like chainsaws have. Most 2-stroke oil is marine oil, made for boat engines. Do not use that in air cooled engines. It is rated TCW, different requirements. Castrol 2T is natrual (dyno) oil that will work but it will smoke, and it is only rated at JASO FB. I flipped to Mobil 1 2T 100% synthetic oil several years ago and that was great stuff. It was rated JASO FC/FD, and it did not smoke, and it leaves far fewer engine deposits according to chainsaw mechanics. It also does not clog up muffler screens. It was also available for cheap at most auto parts stores here. It did have one drawback in that it was not dyed; it was clear. So you could not tell if you had premixed gas or not in a gas can by looking at it. However, Mobil stopped selling it in the US, so I had to find another oil.

So I went to the local motorcycle shop and looked over the available 2-stroke oil options, and for the price, Elf was good stuff. 100% synthetic, rated JASOFC/FD, and it has a blue dye in it so you can tell if a tank of gas has been mised with oil. Problems silved. It is about $10 a liter here. Works good. Elf is still around as far as I know. They are a big Formula One sponsor. Here is a web site with the oil I use:

ELF MOTO 2 XT TECH - 1 Liter

Motul is also good oil at a good price. There are a lot of other higher quality oils, like Amsoil, but that is really expensive stuff. I have some older Stihl oil that I got on a deal that is rated JASO FC/FD as well, and it works fine. I do not buy it at the local Stihl shop, becasue it is just too expensive.

BTW: this discussion belongs in another thread, and I will move it when/if I am able.

ciccio

ok i got u now thank you very much for that.....can i use that right now with the new saw?

Thanks Ciccio

rbtree

Just a tidbit to add to this excellent thread....

I have heard nothing but good about Klotz 2 stroke oil....and the price is good as well. klotz R 50 TechniPlate 1 gallon bottle Single Sale (must choose single bottle Shipping USA only) - klotz Synthetic Lubricants, Racing oil, Fuels & Lube

I loaded up on Mobil Racing 2T when it was being discontinued, and prolly have enough for several more years.....I run it at about 36-1....as most of my saws have been woods ported....a little more lubrication is never a bad thing.

Several other good oils are here: Dirt Bike Motocross 2-Stroke Oil Oils-Chemicals Accessories - Motorcycle Superstore

__________________
http://www.??????.com/photos/rbtree

windthrown

You can use it now, yes. Better oil early is good. Stihl used to have limits on warantees unless you used their own oil at 50:1, or 'any other brand' at 25:1, but they quit that some time ago.

windthrown

The price is so good they are out of stock!

That is a great price for Klotz. I have seen it for twice that price on the shelf.

ciccio

Thank you again, I will try to find the oil here in new jersey i looked at the website link you posted and shipping was crazy 8 plus dollars just as much as the oil.....
Thanks Windthrown..

windthrown

Yah, I did not intend that you buy the oil from that site, it was just to show you the oil that I use. There are many good oils out there, just use a good JASO FC or FD rated 100% synthetic oil made for air cooled engines/motorcycles. Maxim, Elf, Motul are all good. Avoid the synthetic blends, and the dyno oils. Avoid JASO FB rated oils. Read the labels.

ciccio

Thanks again for the info and help I will begin today to find the elf if I can not find it I will pick up one of the other oils you listed

Cut4fun

If you are looking for Klotz 100 or 200 80%/20% or 100% Super or Original, I dont remember if the guy I order from carries the R-50 etc.

The 80% Synthetic/20% Castor blend IMHO saved one of my ported work saws rip cutting in 90 degree heat one day. So the Klotz synthetic blend is top notch and I still think that 20% Castor bean oil is what saved a major failure JMO. During cold weather, 100% all the way though.


But anyhow anything over $20-$25 is free shipping UPS to you.

Also cheaper then the Klotz warehouse site. I think I paid around $8-$9 a qt last time.

Will only link it in a PM.

bipot

Have been looking at Klotz KL200 original. Would be interested in the supplier but cannot pm you. Guess I am not accepted into that world. Thanks!
Bill

Cut4fun

Get 10 post under your belt and then you can pm. I will see if I can send you link anyways.

Cut4fun

Buy $25 worth and get free UPS shipping with the guy I use, It's up to $9+ a qt now. Just checked for another guy. So buy 3 qts shipping is free.

bipot

Thanks for letting me know Cut4fun. I will do that.

Bill

bipot

Hi Windthrown. Have the Tech Tach TT-20K from DTI. It seems to work very well. Tried it out on a weed trimmer little while ago. Have to find a motorcycle shop to get some Elf or else some Klotz KL200 if I can find it. The Harley dealerships here do not advertise supplies like that on the web it seems. Don't know whether Klotz KL104 R50 is better than the KL200 original. Also sent an email to my daughter in law in Southampton, U.K. about Mobil 1 and where it went. She is a chemical engineer and high up in their refinery there. She might know how we could get it back on the shelf. Just rattling her chain. Have not pursued getting the 361 retuned and running correctly yet. Still waiting on some supplies. Thanks again for your help.

Bill

Cut4fun

This place carries 100 200. Link on it's way.

bipot

OK Cut4fun, I now have 10 posts. Will try to pm you. Thanks.

Bill

Cut4fun

Link sent in PM.

ciccio

Thank you for that info I guess i need 10 post before I can pm you for the link, I will just write anything to get to 10 posts.

Thanks