Stihl MS310 - suspect oil flow is less than spec

R.Boreal

G'day all. By the time I run a thru a tank of gas in my Stihl MS310, the bar oil remains more than half full. Actually, maybe even just a bit under 3/4. Any of my other saws, a full tank of fuel usually means the bar is also very low. I suspect the flow of bar oil to the chain in this saw could be better than it is. Is oil pump failure, or a need to rebuild after a few years, a common problem?

I always clean the bar very well, a few times a year, making sure the oil path can flow and the channel when the chain runs is de-gunked. (Know what works great for this? A cut off piece of a plastic zip tie, the one way lockers. The width is perfect for the chain groove.)

I still have the manual - maybe there is an oil screw that I can adjust. I have to look for that.

So my question is, if I take off the bar and chain, and just run the powerhead, what should the oil flow look like coming out of the hole? If the oil pump was fine, I mean. Does it pump out like in a spurt, like er, premature oil-ation? Or should it flow slowly and dribble down? I have never tried this, that is why I am asking.

The bar has a telltale band of missing paint all the way around on both sides where the chain rides, from very hot temps where the paint has been burnt off. I check the tip to see spray, and it definitely is delivering oil, but not too much. Just specs of wetness appear, not a clear wet line as my other saws make.

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Eric Frei

With the oil turned right up it still dribbles out of the hole.

I have all my oilers turned to max and usually there's around 1/4 tank oil whne fuel runs out.

Most common problem is crap in the bar.

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Bruce Hopf

If there is a lot of crap in the grooves of the bar, what I use is a piece of a broken hacksaw blade, to clean out the grooves, and clean out the holes for the oiler, and the tensioner for the bar, and chain.
I also have my oilers set at the highest as posible like Ekka mentioned, and have about the same amount of oil left in the tank, as Ekka, also mentioned. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Bruce Hopf

I just read your post again, and a few times a year, isn't good enough, for cleaning the grooves of the bar. I clean out the grooves of my bars, every time I put on a sharp chain, and remove the dull one. I also flip my bar, at the same time, I change the chain.
You should turn your bar over, every second sharpening, if you use a file. That way the bar will wear equally, from one edge to the other. Also check your bar for burs on the edge of the bar. This is just my opinion though. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

windthrown

Also note that the 310 (like the 290 and 390) has an adjustable oiler. Make sure that the oiler is turned all the way up. If you do not know where the adjusment is, flip the saw over belly up, and there is a hole in the belly with a oil mark beside it. Turn it all the way to the right. They are typically put on 'E' from the factory (about 2/3 open). Also make sure that the air hole in the oil tank is not clogged up. Blow it out with compressed air. Then make sure that your oil line filter is not clogged up, and that the oil line is not kinked.

As others have said, make sure that the bar oil hole is not clogged up. With the bar off, the saw should pump oil out at a pretty good rate. Oosing out of the oil port. My non-adjustable 026 uses about a tank of oil per tank of gas. That's about the same as my other saws with the adjustible oilers turned up to the max, where I set all my saws. I run long bars though (I have west coast longbar disease). My 044 has a high capacity oiler, and that thing gushes oil at a pretty good rate.

Eric Frei

A high capacity oiler, is that a Stihl thing?

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Therrin

I clean the oiling port on the bar out EVERY DAY during regular use!! A few times a year is nowhere near enough. Even if you dont use it very often. I'd recommend at least you should clean out your bar groove and oiling hole after every use.

Crank the oiling screw up, like windthrown said. And maybe pull apart the oiler to check the filter, as Ekka mentioned.

When I pulled apart the oiler on my 011, the filter fabric had partially disintegrated into a gooey-foam stuff that wasn't allowing proper oil flow through the pump.

We had mentioned on one of the 361 threads that some saws have parts which will work in other saws. In some you can use the oiler and pump from a bigger saw that will put out MORE oil than factory, though still not drain the oil reservoir after a tank of gas is used up. You'd have to dial it in though. And be certain that the parts are all compatible.

Give it a good going through and see what you find. Hopefully its a simple fix =)

R.Boreal

Guys, thanks for your experience. I'll run it as just a powerhead, and if the oil dribbles out in a steady manner I'll buy a new bar and see if that helps. But the bar is definitely clean, so I suspect possible low oil flow from the source.

__________________
I'm not smug, but I do feel elevated.

Bruce Hopf

Just a thought, before you go and buy another bar, you can make the oil hole in the bar, a little bigger, by use of a chain saw file, or a drill bit without a problem. That is what I would do. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

windthrown

High capacity, or high output (HO) oilers are on certain models of the 440, 441, and 460. They put them on the 'rescue saws' (any of those models with the R in them) and most of the PNW 3/4 wrap saws. I am not sure if the 440 that I 'sold' you was a high capacity oiler or not. Many of those saws had them. My 044 with the PNW 3/4 wrap and big dogs has the HO oiler.

You can also modify many Stihl pro saw oil pumps. The 361 has the exact same oil pump body as the 460, so you can modify it with a 460 HO pump piston and control bolt. The two parts is all it takes. They are paired, and you need to replace both oil pump parts in the upgrade. Same as any of the non HO 440/441/460 saws; you can get the HO pump piston/control bolt pair from the same saw R model type and swap them into the stock oil pumps to get more oil on the bars. Note that the 440 does not swap with 460 pump; they are different.

The HO upgrade is good if you run longer bars than the factory recommends, or you run in cruddy conditions most of the time (like when running saws in palm trees). For example, a stock 361 is not going to keep a 28 inch bar oiled very well. My second stock 361 came with a 28 inch bar, and there is evidence of bar burn on the bar just to the power head side of the nose. This is due to inadequate oiling. To run a 28 inch bar on a 361 you really need the HO oil pump upgrade. Beware though; running the HO pump at full setting is apt to drain the oil tank in a 361 before the gas runs out. In the larger 440/441/460 saws this does not seem to be a problem. My 044 opened up all the way will drain the oil tank in about the same time as the gas tank. Same with my non-adjustable 026 (seems to run at max which is fine with me for a non-adjustable oil pump).

There yah have it. I do not know about Husky, but I do not own any. My old Mac has a thumb pump oiler. Back in the day they did not have automatic chain oilers! By crackie, you young whippersnappers do not know how good you got it! I tells yah...

Bruce Hopf

. Sorry, for , but I couldn't help it. I know what you mean about the Mac saws. When I first got my Mac 1-10, after running the other Mac saws in my signature, I soon got the hang of using the manual oiler, especially when the chain got tight, and hot. I then switched it over to an automatic oiler that I had in my parts box, and it worked fine.
I'll pay closer attention to my 044, and see how much oil is in my reservoir, when the saw runs out of gas/oil mix. I know it is pretty low too. That is once, and if the rain stops. Might have to build an Arc yet , if the rain keeps up. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Straw

Thank god for auto-oilers. I used to have an old Mac and a huge David Bradly that had the thumb pumpers. Talk about a PITA. I always run the oiler screw on max. The only time I turn the oiler screw down on my Stihls is when transporting my saws at the end of the day. Saves on massive oil pools on my truck lol.

Straw

R.Boreal

Geez I better look at that bloody manual. Air hole in the oil tank, clogged oil filter, possible line kink... I never thought (or knew about) this stuff. I never had this thing apart! I only take 'em apart when the pull cord f__ks up! The only thing I have been clearing is the exit hole where oil comes out of the powerhead. Good info, thanks much. This thread is back from the dead because I just took down a good size tulip poplar and it's all my 310 can do to get thru it. I had blue "forest fire" smoke coming from my cut when I was bucking and there's no reason for the saw to be running that hot. I don't rush the cut, the thing is straight in the groove, I'm using a maul and sledge to help the kerf... I know I need a bigger saw but that doesn't change the fact that I have to get to the bottom of the problem with my MS310. I will look into all you mentioned. Maybe the bar is worn out. Sometimes it seems that even though the saw should be cutting, it's not. I try to change the angle a little bit, so it seats properly in the cut, but sometimes it just doesn't "grab". The chain is sharp - it's not that.

__________________
I'm not smug, but I do feel elevated.

Garry Brockley

if you have smoke coming from you cut then its likely to be A. the bar isnt dressed properly. B.overworn bar and the chain is not being held straight in the groove hence why it wont cut. C.the wrong chain for the bar. D. rakers and bar aren't set up correctly.

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R.Boreal

Okay, that's extremely helpful, thanks. Honestly and embarrassingly enough, this is the original bar on a saw that was purchased probably in 2004. I addressed the oil screw today, but am too busy rehearsing for a musical date to actually fire it up and do any cutting right now. But for sure, you must be right, it's either time to dress or replace the bar. I have to check the groove depth against spec, but I knew something wasn't right. The chains I have are correct, it's not that. I run my chains on the loose side so I am always on the lookout for them jumping the groove. It doesn't happen often but I keep my eye out for it. I clean the bar and oil path a lot, but I'm sure it's time for new parts. The sprocket is also pretty worn, time for that too.

Miko

__________________
I'm not smug, but I do feel elevated.

R.Boreal

Just a follow-up - About a month ago I investigated the process of dressing the bar, and I had actually done this a long time ago and had forgotten all about it. I don't have one of those proper tools, so I just use a big file and let the flat side of the bar guide me in taking the burr off the top edge. I re-dressed the old bar, and also measured against spec in the manual and I am well within proper groove depth. (about 9mm avg measured in different places).
What I did find, however, about my 23" inch MS310 bar, upon close inspection with some magnifiers and a flashlight, is that on either side of the oil hole is what looks like little metal blocks or spacers that sit down inside the bar groove. What I originally thought was a piece of debris was actually one of these metal pieces that has come loose and shifted over, partially blocking the oil hole from the inside. I was able to shift it back, and what I'll do this time is turn the bar around and for awhile at least it wont be an issue. But I think that was the problem.
Since my last post the saw developed a nasty habit of not re-starting after running for a bit, so now the things in the shop for an overhaul - new sprocket and chains, fuel filter, air filter, adjustments, etc. I hope I can earn enough cash for a bigger saw. Some of the trees I am doing are too much for this MS310.
Once again thanks to all who replied for your help - I am hoping the new chain will provide the proper kerf for cutting and that annoying problem of the saw seeming to lose its grab once it's down inside the wood will disappear.

__________________
I'm not smug, but I do feel elevated.

sharkey

R,
Please dont run your chain loose. It is harder on the chain and the bar plus considerably more dangerous. Tension the chain correctly.

If the oiler is cranked up and its still not enough, then get the larger oiler or modify the one that is on it now. A quick way to tell if you are getting enough oil is to run the engine with the bar and chain attached for about 15 seconds at half throttle while pointing the end of the bar at a dry spot on the tree. You should see a line of oil fly off the chain onto the dry spot if its working. Use clean 10-30 motor oil if you would like for the test.

windthrown

Well, if you modify the muffler and carb on the 310 you will get almost the same power of a stock 361. If your 310 is not enough saw you will need at least a 440 or 441.

R.Boreal

You know, that's interesting. I took the "baffle" of whatever it's called out of my 200T tree saw, as per the research and info I found on the internet prior to buying it (I always use earplugs anyway) to give it more power.

I was thinking about a longer bar on my 310, but if I do that I could definitely use a bit more power, and probably will need to replace the clutch, as it is old.

I had never thought of trying the same on my MS310. Thanks for the suggestion - it's in the shop now. I will call and see if they can do the mod, or if they are gonna give me some LA DI DA story about how they can't. In that case I'll have to look up what you're talking about. I don't work much with carburetors so I will need instructions.

As for the chain running loose, I only mean I don't tighten it down like a neanderthal. It's still tight enough so it doesn't sag below the bottom of the bar.

__________________
I'm not smug, but I do feel elevated.

Cut4fun

I know on just the MS290 muffler mods I have done with carb adjustments you will see on average a 21%-23% faster 1 cut times when tested compared to stock. Not all muffler mods are the same .

windthrown

There is a thread on here about the 390 that I posted to about easy to do 310 muffler mods (same muffler as the 290 and 390). Do not call your shop about doing the mods; they cannot alter a muffler or carb by law in the states. 2010 EPA laws restrict dealers from making any mods to saws to defeat the original design, and they face steep fines if they get caught doing them. Owners can mod saws, dealers cannot. They certainly cannot drill mufflers out or remove limiter tabs, or even add earlier model DP muffler covers.

Better to run chains too loose than too tight. Too tight and you can blow a clutch side bearing. I have seen that on some of the used saws that I have bought from fellow tree butchers.