Skarf cutting

cutter660

I don't want to sound treeist but Ive got question for all the boys down south (Victoria) that cut euc's. What is the value of the "type" of skarf cut ie. humbolt, 90deg, V? I'm faily new to cutting down timber.... Only firewood so far but would like to know what you guys think about the types of skarf and how to use them( pertaining to eucs in Southern Aus). I'm not talking about millimetre perfect falling like you arborist do in backyard australia, I'm talking about safety and efficiency....... I only cut about 40m3 a year and where I cut you could just about cut any old way and the tree would fall fairly straight. I mean the trees are in good condition and evenly weighted. Just curious as I really enjoy getting the old 660 out and starting her up and would really like to do it with a little more skill and safety. This may sound like a stupid question but why does the back cut need to be straight/horizontal? why can't you come down at an angle as long as you keep the hinge straight and correct width. These are the sort of questions I'm after. Also if my questions sound stupid just think back to when you were first curious about cutting down trees (before a teacher shoved his/hers ideas down your throat). I would like to know if any of the guys down here in Victoria would let anyone tag along as a pure observer to some jobs for more "experience" (not to touch anything or stand anywhere near the action.....Just to observe and possibly ask questions when convenient) I don't think of myself as an idiot however I'm going to continue cutting firewood and I learn best by seeing with my own two eyes....
Thanks to all you pro's that seem to be able to cut as us mortals can only look on in awe!!!!!!!
P.S. I'm a Hydraulic Fitter so whilst your teaching me I may be able to help you....who knows?????????

Eric Frei

The wider or larger angle of the "V" of a scarf the longer before the two cut faces meet and break the hinge wood. So you can use this to control the tree longer. You might want to hang on to the tree for it's entire journey to the ground so a wide 90 degree "V" will do that. Alternatively you might might have a situation where you want the tree to let go and free fall sooner ... for example, felling the top out of a tree on a fenceline and you want the top to move away from the rest of the tree and clear the fence.

The humbolt is used in logging in USA a lot as it leaves the "V" on the stump and not the butt end of the cut tree, meaning no loss of timber and a square end for milling.

Angled back cuts are BS, read:-

Angled back cut| backcut| tree felling| back cuts

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Tony Knight

mmmmmm, excuse me if i sound hesitant in my reply but I am reserved in advice to inexperienced fallers.
There is so much more before the scarf, VTA, targets and learning.
It sounds as if your heads screwed on, spot no.1 safety, CAREFUL VTA!, 2 x cleared escape routes 45 deg in the reverse direction from the notch, have all your gear at the coal face (don't duck back to grab a wedge or a maul), sharp chain, fueled and tuned saw correct size to do the job. PPE pants a must (or chaps) but especially helmet (with hearing protection) (I've coped some big pieces before today simply from driving wedges). Appropriate cut for the job (this is were the learning comes in), don't rush, to many "firewooders" get off on felling and are in a hurry to "drop it". Doesn't matter what cut you choose (make sure its appropriate) be very careful not to "dutch" it (over cutting). Never fell by yourself (always have a spotter) especially when your working it out.

All this and you haven't even got that 660 pinging away on the deck.
As for cuts try this book, its worth every penny for ANYONE new to felling or those that fall little.
Tree Fallers Manual
This is a aid only and will give you the theory including cuts for different assessments.
Hope this helps a little (not ment to be a knock) Just out of curiosity what part of Vic are you in?

Cheers


Tony

cutter660

FYI I'm keen on any advice...good or bad so thanks I'll have a look at the book. I've read quite a bit of info.....Chainsaw operators handbook by Bernard Kestel which is still used as an instructional book for NSW Forestry( I think ) and alot of online stuff (quality unknown). I also have some friends who have spent alot of time cutting firewood for heating and for sale... But most of these people have one maybe two techniques for all situations...Just what they were taught when they were young. As with most things there is such a thing as progress.Tony K I'm in South East Melbourne...Where abouts are you? I do most of my firewood cutting in wetern districts where my father is... Let me just say I try to think about each cut as much as possible before starting the saw. I also wear every peice of PPE,PPC that I can get my hands on ie: chaps, helmet, muffs, visor, glasses, steel caps and don't cut when there are people/idiots about that don't understand whats going on....Always have escape route and clear working area( clear all debris from work area ) That said I'm almost 100% sure there are things I overlook. The questions relate mainly to techniques..... The reason I ask is I was out cutting a stand of sugar gum last xmas with some country folk...Camping holiday.....and the father (experienced sawyer) cut a small diametre tree (500mm)with a small single cut in front (skarf side) and an angled back cut and the tree twisted nearly killed me, my brother and his 2 little kids who were on the tractor with my brother lucky he saw it and went in reverse. ( They weren't involved in the falling just collecting the already bucked logs, in opposite direction). I can tell you as a relative newcomer and fairly inexperienced it was very difficult to explain to this 15yr veteran that he did something wrong. I had stopped to take a break and watch him cut lucky I did as it saved my life. I dropped my saw and ran. The last thing I want is an injury or death for a bit of firewood.....needless to say I haven't cut with him since...

Tony Knight

15 years of doing it wrong I'd say! (lucky to be still here by the sounds) this kind of $hit shows a total lack of respect for the job, I don't see the difficulty with explaining he did something wrong as the evidence is indisputable, if he's to stoopid to get it then he should stop at calving the roast! Good move not cutting with him, best case you would have pick up bad habits/technique, worst your dead or killed someone else!

Cheers

Tony

PS Your on the right track by asking questions, shows your thinking, get that book, search and read the threads here, start small, practice technique, preset your objective, test yourself (mark the landing zone and hit it), summarise after the job, work out if there could be improvement in any aspect. I'm critical after felling thats what helps me improve and keeps me in form.

Jeff Darby

imo, you are only as good as your last scarf cut, when I fell trees I alway do the same things I have been taught, from a small tree felled with your handsaw to large trees felled in the forest, I feel you can tell a lot by what is left on the stump about the feller, you can see if it was done properly, sloppy, didnt have clue???I wonder if he/she survived?

People think it is easy felling trees well I'm telling you it is hard work! especially when you are in near on jungle conditions, where I qualified for my level 2 felling ticket after a day of felling large trees I literally crawled out of the forest with my tongue dragging on the ground behind me. I was the first to be sent back up the hill covered in dense undergrowth while I was waiting for my colleague to finnish being assessed when he appeared his face appeared long and stressed like he just run a hundred miles. We both passed.

You are on the right track seeking out profesional help, there are a lot of videos on treeworld that show the correct procedure for felling trees.

__________________

Member: Australian Tree Association

Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard !

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

© Jeffrey J Darby 2011

ScottyAFoster

The best approach is to read and watch videos of good and bad felling jobs. The real art is getting to know the amount of face needed for each tree species. There is no such thing as expert faller only a wise faller. Never assume you know enough,constant study is a must to help keep your skills sharp.

Paul Toivonen

Just my 2p;.
Angled back cuts are good if you want a tree on top of you.
They remind me of the good 'ol days, radial felling with an ax! (Like in the cartoons)
Without rigging, wedgies etc., the "open" face of the hinge is all we can do to guide the top as it falls.
Just be aware that not all species behave the same way.