Saw sticks when pull starting

OldNick

I have a new saw: Efco 38. Frequently, when I pull start it, it locks the rope. It can be overcome mostly, but in two cases it was tough enough that I pulled the saw out from under my foot in the handle. When it does stick, it usually does not start, even if I get past the tough bit and manage to pull the rope over more tough bits.

Sometimes if it does this it will start, but mostly a successful start just feels smoother and better.

It happens much more often when the saw is warm (not necessarily hot), but it can happen from cold.

The dealer told me this was normal and to just pull past this. But I have owned 5 saws and never had this before.

As I say I have owned 5 saws and done a fair bit of work with them. My other saw is a 372XP Husky, which I have no trouble starting hot or cold.

The Efco has had its first service and now runs and idles better, but still has this jamming, or stiffness, problem.

So should this be happening, as the dealer claims? Are there ways to stop it? Should I be asking for a fix or some sort of tune?

Thanks for any advice.

Nick

Paul Toivonen

A change of brands may be in order.
I think you may be pulling when the saw is at the top of the compression stroke.
If you let it go past this( research how a 2T works) your pull is easier and gives another revolution before compression again.
Another fault may be in the starter recoil or cord too short/wrong position.
Good luck.

OldNick

Thanks for the reply.

It's not so easy to just change brands if the dealer is denying there is anything wrong. That's why I am looking to see if anyone else has seen this.

I have wondered about the position of the piston as well The trouble is if I can jump over the sticking spot, it will stick again as the piston comes around, presumably toward TDC on compression. So I pull the cord,and the saw sticks. Sometimes if I am not ready for it, it stops me pulling (or sometimes it's just worse than others) . But if I have pulled firmly enough to get past it, it will almost immediately be hard again, on the next stroke, so the starter cord "bumps" out, rather than a smooth action..

Sometimes it will start if I really kick past the sticking, but often not. On a "good" start pull the whole thing is smooth and it fires fine.

I am fine with how a 2-stroke works and that is why this puzzles me. However I am not quite sure how I would control where I started a pull on the piston cycle. Also if this were the reason surely it would happen with more saws?

Paul Toivonen

I usually pull the cord slowly to get the piston where I want it the start position.
Most small engines will kick on you if you dont get it right, also the root cause or starter recoil issues.
The best way to get a feel of where that is to pull the plug and shine your torch down there.
Best to hand it back to the dealer and have them show you how to use it.
Then see what they think of it.

Tony Knight

Send it back, thats why you buy from a "dealer" somethings amiss.



Tony

OldNick

OK. Sounds as if I was right to question this. I have never had to "baby" a saw to start it, nor any other 2s engine such as outboards, weeders etc. I will go visit the local bloke (and yes that _is_ why I went there) and say I am not happy. I will try a replacement of the same brand and if it does the same thing ;look elsewhere.

KevinE

I know a guy with a Jonsered 2153 that has had the same problem from new. My guess is they've pushed the boundaries on compression to get more out of the smaller cc saw, but they haven't then put a de-comp on it so you can start it easily? That's certainly the case with the J'red. It's like trying to start a 660 without a de-comp!

OldNick

HAH! So tear her down and grind a few thou off the top of the piston?

Hmmm...if it is just a really high comp to get better power there is not much I can do as it's not faulty, as such. I would not mind if it was just a bit stiff, but sometimes it just stops me dead, even though I am expecting it. The other funny thing is that it does not always happen...say 3-4 times out of 5 the start pull is perfect. That supports Black Moses's ideas, except that as I say, once it starts jamming it will keep doing it on that start attempt.

Paul Toivonen

It really sounds like a starter recoil issue.
Take it back, get it fixed or a refund.
If that dont work ,apparently Stihl and Husky do an "easy start" saw/start assist these days.

OldNick

hmmm...interesting. The jam does have a ":soft" feel to it, as in hard rubber not metal on metal, so I was happy yo go with compression except for the reasons I gave.

Can you fill me in on what may be happening on the starter system, to cause the problem? The more ammo I have the better.

Really appreciating all the input guys.

Nick

Tony Knight

Now not knowing anything about the model or brand but most popular brand small engines starter housings are removed with 4 odd retainers (screws bolts etc) and retain the loaded starter mechanism so as you can pull it over and inspect. Certainly you need to find the origin before you can diagnosis. I would have thought pulling it over without a plug would discount the starter.
If you were to check the starter me thinks no.1 the rewind pully, it may be binding on the shaft or against the housing, wear marks in spots that shouldn't make contact with anything maybe seen. My feelings are that the dealer ought to take a little more interest in your satisfaction.

Cheers

Tony

Paul Toivonen

As above, check the starter.
If you want try it with the plug in only 1 turn.
It will still fire and run but you wont have the compression.

KevinE

I would not do that if I were you, the plug will fire out like a rocket & completely root up the thread on the head (read; I've had employees do that)

OldNick

D'OH! Yeah pull start w/o (or one threaded) plug. Good idea. I will do that and see.

On the discussion about plug just with one thread. I doubt you will blow the thread _if you disconnect the plug lead first_....n'est-ce pas? I could be wrong, but that would be my guess. Leaving the plug just in does provide a filer to any nasties in the chamber.

On a lighter note, I had a mate who over tightened a plug in an outboard. He was way out in the middle (luckily of the river) and tearing along (allie dinghy), when there was a huge bang and the plug went West. He had tightened it so much that it pulled the threads of the alloy head and off she went. he rowed home

Tony Knight

Yeah???? My choice would be in (tight) or out, as alloy quality, thread accuracy, unknow compression all could void a warranty quicker than you can say"OH S..."
If your worried about foriegn matter entering the cylinder then put a clean lint free rag over it.

Cheers

Tony