Last call for the MS310 and MS390

windthrown

Last call for new Stihl MS310 and MS390 saws to be shipped down under. They are now being replaced (and rapidly) with the MS311 and MS391. The new ones are more expensive, a full pound heavier, with 0.2 more HP. With a simple Euro muffler mod and carb adjustment, the 310 goes from 4.0 HP to about 4.4 HP, and the 390 from 4.3 HP to about 4.7 HP (0.2 HP more than the new models). The 310 is the way smoother of the two saws though. AV is hardly any better with 311 over the 310, 391 has WAY better AV than the 390.

luckydave

So what saws going to be better in hardwood??
The 390 has more power but the 310 is smoother??

Therrin

Windthrown, given the stat's for performance enhancement in the 310 and 390 for additional horsepower;

Do you have any idea what the similar stats would be for a mod to their respective new model saws?

I mean, if a modded 310 is better than a 311, and a modded 390 is better than a 391.... what're the stats for modded 311 and 391's?

windthrown

The 311 and 391 are strato saws. You cannot mod the mufflers in those like the non-stratos with the same kind of results. You cannot port them very easy either, or do nearly as much as you can with a typical Stihl pro type saw. They are clamshell design engines! You can widen the ports, but dropping the cylinder base and making a pop-up piston? I know several builders that have tried that and failed miserably. You also cannot subtract another pound, and the 1127 saws are pretty heavy to begin with. So you will likely never get the same power to weight ratio, becasue any serious porting is not an option.

The thing that makes the 290, 310 and 390 so nice is that fact that they were ~designed~ with the 4 port Euro muffler, so that the simple mod restores their intended power. 4 port muffler, crank open the H screw to 1-1/4+ turns (vs. limiter 3/4) and you are done. They are choked to death in the states, and once free, they fly. Never mind that they are cheaper saws as well. The new strato saws are pretty limited, so I do not think that a strato muffler mod comparison is valid here.

windthrown

I would opt for the 310 simply for the better AV and the vibration balance. The AV on the 390 is ~really~ bad (as is the 290). The 310 muffler mod brings back its original power to a tad more than the stock US 390. The power difference would not be very noticable using both saws stock or both saws modified. The vibration difference would be #very# noticable though.

Compare AV:

290: left/right measured in meters per second squared: 4.6/5.7
310: left/right measured in meters per second squared: 4.3/4.7
390: left/right measured in meters per second squared: 5.9/5.1

AV was an issue with several saws I have owned from Stihl, in particular the 230, 250, 290, 460 and 660. The 180 and 880 are the worst two Stihls for high vibration levels (in the red). I have never owned a 390 either, but they are worse than the 290. Use one all day and you will feel it a lot more than using a 310 or a 361. You do not want Whitefinger. Once you get that there is no cure and you have it for life. The fingers develop a vascular spasm response to vibration and lose all the blood in them. Tendonitis is not much better, nor is arthritis, both of which can develop with exposure to high levels of prolonged vibration.

KiwiBro

Heck, I am glad you talked me into that 310 a while back , Windy.
When I first got it, after modding the muffler, retuning and trying it out, I thought it shook a little, but it seems its not that bad compared to those other saws. I think it was just me not used to that size saw b/c I get through long days with it without much fatigue, so the AV must be OK after all.

Again, tks for helping us out with that 310. There are times when I am walking the saw around a stump (albeit only a soft pine stump but still), all 20" buried in the wood and I can't help but think how darn good it is to have something that does the job so well.

windthrown

Gald you like that 310! I still keep one 310 around with my other pro saws here. The 310 keeps up with the others and it has that adjustible oiler. I usually run a 20 inch bar on it, but it will drive a 25 with the muffler mod. The only thing keeping it from beating a stock 361 is the lower revs with the engine design limits. Add a rim drive and you have a pro saw for all intents and purposes, for a lot less money.

glennak

I have recently ordered a 361 here after recomendations from others and reading comments here. I had a trial saw for a while and I thought it needed more oil on the chain at times. Can this be adjusted? When I had 026s they had the same trouble in stringy barks and similar trees. My theory was they were made for cutting pines.

windthrown

Not all 026/260 saws have adjustable oil pumps on them. However, the 361 has an adjustable oil pump on it. Flip the saw over and on its belly there is a small hole on the bottom, with an 'Ematic' oil symbol on it, and the letter "e". The 'e' is the nominal factory setting, but not the maximum oil flow. If you look at the scale, it starts at a tip for the lowest flow, and it widens for the highest flow, usually turned all the way to the right.

If the max flow on your stock 361 saw still does not put out enough oil, you can sawp in the 460R model oil pump, or oil pump parts into the 361. See post #4 in my 361 upgrades and options thread here on TW for the oil pump or oil pump parts for doing that:

Stihl MS361 upgrades and options

tassie tiger

hi i am new just wondering if you are going to ship more of saws down here to australia.

windthrown

I continue to ship saws as people order them. They are not sent in batches.

tassie tiger

thanks for reply, thats good to know.

tassie tiger

Windthrown, meant to ask how much with freight to Tasmania Australia 7310 for either stihl ms310-311 ms390-391. i cant pm you yet, thanks

craig scott

HMMMMM, That 310 sounds nice, I have come to the conclusion (at the moment anyway) that my wallet may just win out over my ego. 310 hey!
This gets me to score 8

Cheers, Craig

craig scott

Score 9 I hear myself say, well, not hear as in an audible sense, but perhaps mental....... 1 more.

craig scott

Mr windthrown,
These mods I read about, for the average wood gatherers useage, would they shorten the life of the saw generally, or can these girls stand up to the extra hp's.without, say, significantly calling forward attention to the big end?
I really like the sound of the mods, it brings an extra element of personality to something that already affects us closely, not unlike upgrading drag washers on a stella spinning reel, or matching perfectly those new tyres (tires for you guys) to the landcruiser.

Cheers, and that's 10.

Standby.

Cheers, Craig.

windthrown

I do not quote prices on the open forum any more. Sorry.

Just post 6 more times and I can PM you. Post some jokes or reply to some threads. Be creative! Ask some questions.

windthrown

I would opt for the 310 with the simple muffler mod over the 311 while the 310 is still available. The 311 is one pound (tad less than a half kilo) heavier than the 310. Costs more than the 310.

The 311 is a tad smoother though:
310: Vibration left/right: 4,3/4,7 m/s²
311: Vibration left/right: 4,0/4,0 m/s²

Euro and US muff-mod 310: 4.4 HP
US 310 stock: 4.0 HP
Euro & US 311: 4.2 HP

windthrown

Most muffler mods actually extend the life of the saw. Why? Becasue they run cooler and richer than stock saws. Other than straight-gassing, the death of most 2-stroke engines is generally too much heat, which leads to scoring of the cylinder and piston. New saws are typically set on the edge of being lean at the factory now becasue of smog laws. This leads to them running too lean and too hot. More air flow from the muffler mod cools the engine down better. Removing the limiter tabs allows the saws to be set to a richer mix, and thus they are less prone to overheat from running lean. Scored engines are the most common failures in 2-strokes. The number one reason being from running straight gas, and the number two reason being from running too lean and overheating as a result. Other reasons for overheating are air leaks leading to running lean (typically air leaks in carb and crank seals), running low octane or ethanol blended gas without re-tuning the carb, going down in altitude w/o retuning your saw richer, or running old, so-called 'bad gas" which is the typical over-diagnosed cause of engine failures when no other fault can be found. Running the wrong type or amount of premix is also an issue, expecially running outboard motor premix in any air-cooled engine.

In the case of the 310, the saw was designed originally with the European larger opening muffler, and with 4.4 HP output. Meaning that the engineers dsigned the saw with those parameters in mind, with the same piston, low end bearings, rod, crank, etc. So there is no overloading with the simple muffler mod on the US model 310. All it does is bring up the choked up soon-to-no-longer-be-available US model to the original design specs of the already-no-longer-available European 310 model. The 310 cannot be easilly otherwise ported, as it has a clam-shell engine. You can widen the intake and exhaust ports out some, but that's about it for porting clam-shell engines. While these are cheaper so-called 'homeowner' saws, with lower quality parts that are harder to fix and maintain, they do have some pro features like adjustible oilers and they run large mount 3003 bars, and they do hold up to a lot of abuse and use over time. They will not keep up with a pro 360/361/362 with the same engine displacement, but they are a lot cheaper. They also have a plastic 'frame' instead of metal, which is the real weak point in these saws, as compared to the metal cases of the pro saws. However, splitting pro lower end Stihl cases is rather complicated, and is best left to the pros with a lot of special tools. Whereas the clam shell engines can be pulled and torn down and tinkered with by anyone with a few simple tools.

tassie tiger

thanks Windthrown, what is the largest bar that the 310 can carry, the above info about muffler mods is quite interesting have not heard this done before, 5 posts to go.

tassie tiger

just curious what are husqvarna 455 ranchers like?

windthrown

Well, a 32 inch bar will "fit"...

Here in the land of long bars, most Stihl shops sell the 310 with 20 and 24/25 inch bars on them. That is 3/8 standard 0.050 bars and chains. 0.050 is more common here on 3/8 B&C, and 0.63 is more common in Oz and Europe. Long reasons as to why, but that's the way it is. A lot of people here run saws with semi-skip or full skip chain as well with even longer bars for cutting softer firs here with.

I run a 20 inch 3/8 bar on my modified 310 the most. They do OK with a 25 with a skip tooth chain on them. That is as long a bar as they can oil effectively, with the oil pump cranked up all the way. But that is in softer wood. In hard ass eucs and gums? I would go with an all-around 20 inch bar and chain. If you are only cutting smaller stuff, you could opt for an 18 or 16 inch. These guys in Europe, back east in the states, and down under all like shorter bars.

windthrown

Wrong place for that question. Suggest you start a new thread with that one, under chainsaws.

tassie tiger

sorry didnt realise.

windthrown

No problem. Its just that not many knowing about Huskies are going to look for threads on them in this Stihl related saw thread. I do not know much about many of the Husky saws, outside the 371/372 and the 346.

But see, you will have 10 posts in no-time now....

SawTroll

Well, the replacement 311/391 obviously are much better in many ways, but the power to weight issue has got even worse!

ryan.malecha

I am in the T-cities and am looking for someone to do the muff mod on my ms390 and tune it. Anyone know of any locals who do this?

windthrown

I can do it but I am down here south of Portland. I do not know anyone out there that is familiar with this saw mod.

ryan.malecha

How can I get ahold of you? My pm won't work on here?

windthrown

You have to have 10 posts in TW and set your PM status flag in the USER CP pop-up before you can get or send PMs. You will have to do some more posting here. Just read some threads and post some comments about them.