Bought TWO Stihls today.

Therrin

Well, I ended up goin to the saw shop to buy a Stihl MS460 today.

Except I didn't buy the MS460.

No, I changed my mind and bought the MS 660. Then thought, ya know, I'm already dropping over a grand, what the hell; so I also bought an MS260pro.

Got them both home and ran them a bit, very happy with my purchases and I'm looking forward to using them. Tomorrow I'll be taking them up to Lake Hughes to finish up some work that I had left that needed completion when my 361 died.

I had used an MS250 for several hours, a couple weeks ago and really liked it; and the 260pro is a step up or so from there.

The 660 is just a beast compared to everything else I've used. I got it with the 36" bar.

windthrown

Good choices, and good bar length for that 660. Nice and LONG. The 260 will cut circles around a 250 with less vibration and fewer problems. I offed all my 210/230/250 saws and replaced them with my 026s (and never looked back). They are good little saws. Old and obsolete as the 260s are, they still run good and are easy to use. The 260 will be replaced with the 261 pretty soon here in the states. I dunno about the 660, but I bet it will be gone as well by this time next year.

Therrin

Yeah they only had 2 of the 260's in stock. I had heard alot of good things about it in some research I had done, and my saw shop guy (who's opinion I value) seems to really like them. I'm glad I got one while they're still around.

You can feel the torch in it, even as compared to my older 028. It feels like the lower end torch and the higher rpm power are both higher than my old 028.

The 660 I'm super happy with. I got it with the full wrap handle, which is a new thing for me...heard alot about them but I was looking forward to trying it out. I suppose if for some reason I really dont like it I can always buy the other style of handle.

I think my 200T/260p/660 will be a good combo for me. And I'm having the 028 looked at for its high rpm bogging down issue. If I can get it repaired cheaply I'll keep it around too.

windthrown

3/4 wrap is the way to go on the larger Stihls. I have one on my 066 and one on my 044. I also have the roller and larger falling dogs on those saws. I am looking for one for one of my 361s as well. The real advantage is being able to flip the saw left side down and do cuts from the left side. That works great for face and back cuts on larger diameter trees, as well as limbing. It makes the saw much more usable in the woods. Not so usable or needed on a 260 though.

Drouin Tree Service

Get yourself a 25" bar for the 66 you WILL not regret it,SO easy blocking up.

Im happy you ditched the 46 idea,sure there a great saw i have a few but there not in the ass kicking league of the 66.

Nothing better than a new 66,well maybe a few things!!!pics please

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Eric Frei

Nice saws .... now has that 66 got a DP muffler and HD oiler?

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Therrin

Not sure about the muffler and oiler you asked about Ekka, I'd have to look into that specifically.

The handle, I suppose it's full wrap, it kinda shapes a roughly U shape up and around the saw, coming 3/4 down on both sides. We'll just have to see how it goes. It came stock with MASSIVE dogs and a roller catcher on it.

The 260p has the standard handle config, nothing special. And a standard dog for that model.

WT, I have the upgrade dog&roller kit for my 361. Since I'm trying to sell the 361 as a parts/rebuild saw, I'm putting all the stock components back on it. Let me know if you want the upgrade dog&roller kit for it and I'll send it to you. I'm also keeping the one-slot-larger sprocket that I had gotten for it.

Oh, and I already have a 25" bar in 3/8". I had gotten it originally for the 361 for some of that soft pine I was cutting a while back. I'm taking the 36" and the 25" bars to use with the 660 for the job tomorrow.

So far I have (2) 16", 18", 20", 22", 25", 28", 32" & 36" bars in 3/8".

The chain that's ON the 36" bar right now is the FULL chisel stuff, that requires the 45deg grinding angles. I also got a standard round profile chain for it. I'll try them both and see what I like, and decide if I want to learn how to hand-sharpen the full chisel stuff or just stick with the round profile cutters.
He said if I don't want to keep the chain as full chisel in that profile, when it needs to be sharpened he can turn it back into round profile heads and I can just go from there. (though apparently trying to go the other way around causes too much material loss).

Eric Frei

What!

You haven't got a 24" bar in there .... just not good enough at all.

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Therrin

well Stihl is kinda goofy about that. I have the 25".... some call it the 24/25. I'm really not sure what's up with that bar. For some reason with that one they jumped from the even-numbers-by-2's and jumped to 25. Goofy, just plain goofy.

And then a short stack of 3/8" PM bars too. I cant recall if they make a 10", if so I have that and two 12"; or if I have three 12", (3) 14", and a 16"

All you boys I shipped saws to and got to keep the bars from

Rudolf73

Congrats on the 660 - what a great saw. I'm also thinking of getting a 25" bar for the 660... the 30" can be a bit long for the smaller stuff.

windthrown

A 25" Stihl bar is a 24" bar, Ekka. I found that the 28" bar was the best match for my 066 MR (DP cover, 3/4 wrap & HO oiler). I ran it with the 28 and 32. I never put a 25 on it, come to think of it. Waste of torque in my book. If I want to run a 25 I will use a smaller saw, like the 044 or 361. If you do run a 25 on it, swap in an 8 pin rim at least.

In the states, the 3/4 wrap is the "R" model. R models (440, 460 and 660) also have the HO oiler on them. In the states they will not have the DP muffler on them stock for EPA reasons. That used to be designated by the "M" Magnum model here, but no longer. Magnum here means nothing but a sticker now. In Canada the DP Magnums are still available (or were until last year). You can get the Oz/CND DP Magnum muffler cover for the 660: It is Stihl PN: 1122 140 0800. Just remove the stock muffler cover (4 torx bolts) and bolt on the DP cover, and its a real Magnum. Make sure that you pull and trim the H limiter tab on the carb and retune it to run richer or you will burn it up fast. You will get about a 10% increase in power that way, and the saw will run cooler.

I would like to get a 22" 3/8 bar. They are not available around these parts. Where did you find one?

stihlman441

How do you know if ya have a R model(R models (440, 460 and 660) also have the HO oiler on them).
Will the serial number tell you anything.

stihlman441

I think you have done very well with the two models you got,you cant do any better than that 660 25'' bar with a 8 rim sprocket for fun and productivity.

Therrin

Well, I ended up spending 5 hours cutting with the 660 today. (and never even ended up taking the 260p out of the truck! )

That saw is a real powerhouse compared to anything else I've ever used. Pretty awesome stuff. I was cutting up a log I had dropped a week or so ago, about 30 to 32" dia down the spar and out to 38" or so in a section with a union.

The weight of the powerhead just keeps pulling the bar down through the wood, its so niffty.

After cutting 18" slices out of the 32" stuff I set them on edge one slice on another and cross-cut about 12 of those slices into quarters. I was actually pretty amazed at how easy it was. The full chisel chain stays sharp an amazingly long time.

However: (dramatic music goes here)

I'd like to get an HO oiler for it. I'm certain mine doesn't have one. With the 36" bar on it I was only barely to slightly seeing oil coming off the nose when checking it. The bar seemed to get pretty hot, but every so many cuts I let it sit and idle for several minutes. It was about 95*F outside today there.

I just read and reread what was said about using the 8 pin sprocket with the 25" bar. Makes sense.

However, now I'm thinking about getting the full chisel (45* squared profile) chain for the 25" bar as well. Considering how well it cuts and how long it lasts, it'd prolly be worth taking it in to sharpen; at least until I can learn how to file it.
I'll always have round-profile cutter headed chain that I can use on any of my bars, but I'm really starting to like the full chisel squared profile. Niffty stuff!

So, apparently I'm ordering a HO oil part. Is it just the oil metering bolt? or a whole oiler assembly?

windthrown

In many cases the serial number is important, as in the 044 having the small or large wrist pin. There were several model 066s along the way, and some have different case bearings, poly or aluminum flywheels, and like the 044, there are cut-offs using model numbers. I have never been able to figure out the sub-model types (like M and R) from the serial number though. I figure out the sub-model types by looking at the saw and the parts on them. Then I cross reference the rest of the parts on the PL. Stihl PLs can be tough to decipher at times though, as to which parts go to what. There are also app notes on the 066 in particular, with all the different combinations of flywheels and coils used.

It may be that the 066/660 R model did/does not have the HO oil pump in the US. Looking at my PLs for them, they only show the HO pumps on the AUS model. But that seems strange, as many a 660 here has a 36 inch bar on it, and I know that my 066 has a HO oil pump in it after I tore it down. I do not know what the (B) reference is on the PL for those AUS parts. I will have to reasearch that. There is also a full wrap CDN model on the 660 (as in full and not 3/4 wrap), as well as an arctic model, a W model, and some other models.

windthrown

Er, I have to ask, did you crank the oiler up on the belly of the beast? They come set to 'e', or ematic, which really means enemic.

You can update the Stihl standard 660 oilers to HO oilers pretty easy, by just putting 2 new parts in them. They come in pairs; the control bolt and the pump piston. From my 066 and 660 PL the AUS HO model control bolt PN is: 1122 647 4802 and the pump piston PN is: 1122 647 0602

BTW: The 460 R upgrade is the same as the 361 HO oil pump upgrade (they have the same oil pumps, the 440 is different). I posted that on the 361 upgrade and options thread here some time ago.

windthrown

OK, I confirmed that the US Stihl 066/660 Rs do not have the HO oil pump option like the R models of the 460 and the 440 (about like the 361 here). The AUS option is the one that you want, and the PNs I posted above for the Aussie 660 HO oil pump are the correct ones. I also have a link to another site that has the 660 HO pump upgrade in vivid detail, with photos. PM me for the link, as this forum does not allow posting the link to it.

The AUS model 660 put out apx. 30% more oil onto the bar than their US cousins. This was done by Stihl mainly for the hardwoods typically cut there, and not for the typical bar length run down under.

Therrin

Excellent info and research WT! Thanks so much.

And yes, I already turned up the oiler all the way. It only rotates within a range of maybe 90 degrees, maybe less than that. It's hard to imagine it really getting very much oil on the chain/bar.

Okay, so with the HO oiler parts: when its turned to full HIGH output, does your tank of gas still run out before your tank of bar oil? Or will output at that level actually allow the saw to run out of oil first?
I think that's at least an important point to be aware of, but I don't know the answer.


The dual port muffler cover which you mention is available through stihl; it requires trimming of the limiter tabs to adjust to proper setting?
So, for the saws that they put those muffler covers on, how do THEY adjust the carb settings? do they also trim the tabs? Or do they install something which doesn't have the installation of the tabs, from the beginning?

Therrin

Got a video of the 660 in action, and some pictures.

Attached Thumbnails

           

 

windthrown

That is an excellent question. HO oil pumps are an issue with oil tanks running dry on you when they are cranked all the way up. That is something to be aware of when doing these HO oil pump mods. On my 044 they are about even; on the 066 the oil runs out before the gas. These saws suck even more gas faster when they are modified; more power, more gas used, so its a double issue with oil on a real Magnum saw. I tone down the HO oiler outputs, and I have long since gotten into the habit of refilling my saws when they have about 1/3 the gas left in them. Issues arise from running saws out of gas (they run lean when the gas is almost gone) and saws like the 361 are a PITA to restart after they have been run dry and they are hot. Vapor lock, gas venting and other effects.

Yes, the oilers do not move very much, and they only move about 90 degrees by the nature of the control bolt cam design. BTW: The EPA laws do not apply to the HO oiler mods, and that mod is not likely to affect the warantee of the saw unless you screw it up and that causes some failure in the saw. You can also buy a complete AUS 660 oil pump for about twice the price of the two oil pump parts listed above. The part number for that is: 1122 640 3201. You can sell the old original one on Ebay pretty easy, or keep it as a backup.

windthrown

Yes, any muffler modification, including an upgrade to the DP factory muffler (or Wojo style muffler mod) will require pulling the H side limiter and cutting off the tab and reinserting the limiter so that it turns 360 degrees. I would recommend doing that if you modify the saws or not. They are all set too lean from the factory for EPA reasons. Your 361 being an example of the possible effects of running at factory limited settings. I would also mod your 260 by drilling out the muffler cover. Easy to do and more power gained.

"They" cannot modify the muffer or carb on any saw in the USA by law now, even with Stihl aftermarket parts. There is a very heafty EPA fine if they are caught doing that. "They" are required to restore the saw to original US factory specs if they find a saw that has been modified. That would mean their replacing the modified limiter cap with a new one with the tab in place, and replacing the DP cover with an original one. "They" have limiter tab pullers and a set method to reset the stock rotation settings on the limiters for both H and L sides (I have yet to find a saw that needed the L side limiter trimmed). "They" are likely not going to work on any saw sold during of after 2010 that they know has been modified in any way to defeat the EPA restricted designs of saws. Also California has tougher CART laws than the US EPA laws, and there may be other restrictins as well in that state. I do not know of any entity that enforces those laws at the state level though. So far all the EPA fines and penalties have been with importers of Chinese knock-off saws that do not meet 2010 EPA restrictions.

Also note that you are deliberately taking your saws out of warantee as soon as you do any of these muffler or carb modifications. For that reason you may want to wait until the warantee expires (6 months for pro use in the US, one year for homeowners). However, I would still pull the H limiter tabs on the carbs and set them to run richer. They are set too lean from the factory. Also note that some Stihl dealers here are no longer supplying me with things like DP muffler covers. They claim that the distributor is no longer making those parts for CDN and AUS saws available in the PNW. There are several distributors here, and I have been able to get around it for the time being. But I suspect that the time will come that I have to buy them from Canada or Oz. HINT: buy your DP muffler covers now. I have also heard that many Stihl dealers will not sell limiter tabs either, because that would mean that they have some knowledge of your modifying your saws, which by law they cannot support. So you have an old crusty red light 066 that the muffler cover rusted out on and you need a new DP muffler cover. Your 'cover' story. And do not break the dang limiter caps when you pull them, trim the tabs, or reset them.

Therrin

So is the "limiter tab" the piece indicated by the arrow in this picture I just took?

(since the carb is already out of my 361 I just took it and pulled the H screw cap out for the photo)

Attached Thumbnails

 

windthrown

Yep, that is it. I tried to photograph these, but I do not have a macro lens for my digital camera that can focus close and small enough. They are small little suckers. Just trim the tab flat to the barrel of the limiter, and reinstall it into the carb in any position. The limiter barell works to keep the H jet from turning from its tuned position in the carb. W/o the tab the jet will be tunable past the 3/4 mark and to 1 to 1-1/2 turns (or more) which is more typical for tuning muffler modified saws. You can also seat the jet better w/o the tab in place.

stihlman441

I have a AUS 660 with the HO oiler and there is always a bit left when the fuel tank is empty.
With the dual port muffler i dont think you will have to trim the tabs,try it first.

windthrown

I would seriously recommend trimming the H tab, or you will blow the saw running it too lean with the DP muffler. US saws are tuned differently (very lean), and stock they will be tuned to the single port exhaust. Tach it to make sure, as well as pulling the plug after a 30 second full throttle cut in wood and seeing a nice even chocolate brown color on it. It is very likely that you will need to dial the H jet out at least 1-1/4 turn or more from seating it lightly with the DP muffler to get it to 4-stroke at WOT and to bring the max revs down max spec.

bill24

Excellent choices Therrin, the 026 & 066 are the only two saws I use and find them suitable for my type of work.

They both run out of fuel just before the oil.

The 066 is 8 or 9 years old and still going very well !

I bought the 026 on Ebay from the US as a used saw. It arrived with sawdust still around the drive area and appeared fairly old but fully intact and tidy.

Two years later its still totally reliable.

You'll get years out of those STIHLS mate.!!

Daniel Janjic

Nice pair of new saws there Therrin, I have the same plus the 200t and a 230 for backup. Though I have a 460 on the way just to make the 660 last a little longer.
Wait till you try the 660 with the 20" bar!!!

Here the pro saws are stickered Magnum and if they do have a HO oil pump, it runs 5:6 to fuel or pretty even with thin oil.

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Cheer's

Dano

http://www.treelove.com.au

Drouin Tree Service

So the magnum has the HO oiler?

The 046 is a manum as well

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Daniel Janjic

Sorry, that's kind of what I was asking...

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Cheer's

Dano

http://www.treelove.com.au

Therrin

From what I got here & talking to my mechanic... the stickers here don't mean much of crap except advertising. Because putting "magnum" makes it just sound better, more manly. (think Trojans)

However the 460 R (here the "rescue" model, its what the fire departments use) has the HO parts.

I'm ordering the HO oiler parts for the 660.


And Bill24, yes I know what you mean. I got my 200T used off ebay about 3 years ago, and my 028 is 20 years old. Its had a few issues with this and that, it's in the shop right now. The P&C on it have never been overhauled in 20 years though. It's my "backup" at the moment, along with my 011.