Bought TWO Stihls today.

windthrown

Ah yes, CAD...

...and BAD (bar addiction/acquisition disorder/disease). I sold about a half dozen Picco and .325 bars and loops on Ebay not too long ago as I only run 3/8 std. now. I also keep the really crappy worn out B&Cs for potentially nailey wood. Houses that I fall trees at around here are apt to have old treehouse or fence nails or wire in them.

As for CAD, I sold the old MACs and new Poulan last year. The ex gave away my Oly, and seems to have 'lost' my old MAC 380.

Therrin

Amazing how she could lose something so big. *shakes head in dismay*

I too, have switched everything I use over to 3/8 std (okay, and 3/8 PM).

Daniel Janjic

I was toying with the idea if running the 260 with 3/8" though was talked out of it by my dealer for the reason that the extra chain width would make the hot little saw work just that little bit to much harder and thus slow it down on big cuts and reduce the life of the saw.

Does anyone agree?

Btw the new 460 magnum is a cracker, the ducks nuts, sings like a chourus girl and works like a whore. Sorry got carried away.

It's good.

__________________
Cheer's

Dano

http://www.treelove.com.au

windthrown

Your dealer says what? I compared them with cuts, and the kerf on the 3/8 is neary the same as the .325. Meaning they remove the same amount of wood. The only difference is the profile of the .325 cutters, and the fact that there are more of them per inch on .325 chain. This leads to the inverse of skip chain, and in reality, there should be more drag on .325 chain from more cutters.

Running 3/8 reducing the life of the saw (a 260 or a 290) is pure BS. I run all 3/8 chain and bars on all my saws. I picked up an 029 today (cheap on CL) that is 20 years old, and it runs like a top. It has only run 3/8 on a 20 inch bar its entire life. No premature expiration from running that SUPER long 3/8 bar and chain (that bar is not considered long here in the PNW, but it seems to be of massive length elsewhere in the world).

The duck's nuts? Is that like the dog's ballacks?

Daniel Janjic

Interesting extra perspective thank you Windthrown, though now I am burdened with the task of demanding 3/8" gear for the little girl. I'm sure he won't be to offended by my demands!
z
Yes ducks nuts = bees knees = > dogs bollocks = champagne & caviar.

__________________
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Dano

http://www.treelove.com.au

rick

I dunno.
Post rip racers run .325 over 3/8 for a reason, and those fella's are using 3120's and 880's

Ok, it's not cross cutting but there has to be something in it, and some of the speed blokes (cross cutting) run .325 in our hard as nails timber too.

Therrin

I'm not sure that you can compare what pro speed cutters use to our equipment's uses and have it make a whole lot of sense. Could be just me though. Afterall, I'd imagine on a speed cutting saw, the "life of the bar/chain", and the heat derived from an entire day of sawing logs isn't seen in quite the same way.

I could be wrong though. It's happened once or twice before.

I wonder if you can convert at 260 to run 3/8 PM?? That'd be interesting.
(oh, but then you'd have to make it fit those bars too... I wonder if that's been done before)

This ingenious bloke has something really going for him here:
A Chainsaw Bayonet Strapped to an AR-15 Rifle is the Ultimate Zombie Killing Weapon

AR15 with underslung chainsaw bayonet. Very nice. I could see Bill making/using one of these.

rick

I'd reckon the post rip race is as close to a real world work condition as you can get in a race environment and most of the fella's use off the roll Oregon 21LP from memory, maybe re-filed to a 15* top plate angle.
It definitely isn't a square filed/lightened/thinned race chain like seen in the US.

Oh, and 16-18" bars are the norm in this event too, usually on a 3120 or 880.
All the fencing contractors i know use these same size bars on their big saws when making posts out in the bush too.

Post ripping isn't what one would do with a 50cc saw, nor is it the same as cross cutting, just trying to show that there is a difference in drag between the two gauges, particularly when chip clearance isn't an issue (which it isn't for the most part with our hardwoods, as opposed to the soft and hardwoods Windy normally works with)
Southern Stringybark would be an exception, going by Stihlman441's vids blocking up fresh stringy he 's posted recently on AS. The sneaky bugger's using skip chain to good effect in that stuff now, all thanks to the thick, fibrous bark.

The NA saw racers can't believe our blokes use the smaller chain virtually untouched for that event, but it's what works in our timber for that type of cutting, and you'll find those fella's use a similar chain in their day to day fencing businesses.

We have to remember here that sinking a bar to full depth into some old Box in Australia is so far removed from what most anyone experiences in NA, (except maybe SoCal, NM or AZ) the hardness, the dust, the lack of chip size and the total time spent in the cut is far, far longer log size for log size.

To give the Aussies an idea, we tend to consider River Red Gum to cut like Balsa compared to a lot of our other timbers, yet it's harder than North America's Osage Orange/Hedge, something considered harder than hell over there.
When you are blocking up some old dead Grey/Yellow/White/Red Box you are putting a hell of a strain on a saw, then you have the abrasiveness (silica) and dust.

Actually we were discussing this on AS once and Gary(GASoline) saw some vids of fella's cutting here and he remarked it reminded him of the crap they had to contend with over there after Mt St Helens blew it's top, so Windy would be familiar with some abrasive crap that kills chain too, even though the timber is a bit softer.

Anyway, here's the Open Post Rip final at the '09 Ekka.
This is from LumberjackAU's channel, I think Will is a member here.


325 is a smaller kerf and lower profile than 3/8, it drags less HP out of a saw which is why you use it on 50cc and below saws, although the grunty 50cc class saws like the Dolmar 5100/5105 apparently pull 3/8 chain very well.

Someone did some back to back tests on AS with a 5100, 346 and 260 and the two gauge chains and it was mixed results depending on the saw (IIRC the 346 did best with 325, the 5100 3/8 ??)

Can't remember what Matt runs on his 5100, maybe he'll chime in.

windthrown

.325 is not smaller kerf, at least on Stihl (and if it is, it is negligable). That is a misconception that seems to pervade the industry. Many are comparing NK (narrow kerf) .325 and presume that it is for all .325 chain out there. NK is not available for Stihl in .325, it is available only in Picco (low pro 3/8). We have had this discussion many times on several other forums.

The profile is lower on .325 and there are more teeth per inch on .325 than with 3/8 standard. I have run them back to back doing timed cuts on the same saw in the same wood with the same length bar and the same type of full chisel cutter (16 inch bar on a ported 026) and there was narry a difference. I measured the kerf and they were the same. Stihl .325 has a fat kerf, which is why I ran 3/8 picco on my 1123 saws to get better cutting speeds. Picco also is mainly semi-chisel, and .325 is maily full chisel here in the states for some reason too.

As for racing, that is a different world. Post cutting and thinning are all skinny wood cuts, so there is no need for a longer bar there. However, here in the land of big trees, having a longer bar has distinct advantages. And race times for cutting are in the hundredths of seconds, and whe you are out in the woods falling large trees, seconds do not account for anything. Having more control over a back cut and being able to fall from one side are more adventagous, as is walking a log and limbing with a longer bar. Also if you want more chain speed with less drag as you say .325 has, you can use half or full skip chain, and you will have higher revs with 3/8 standard chain. For that reason 75% or more of the long bar sawyers I have seen here run full skip chain, and typically its semi-chisel. Reason being that semi does not dull as fast as full chisel, and another reason that using race chain does not make much sence when falling in the woods. Race chan would dull out there pretty fast.

If you want the fastest cutting chain, use full chisel square ground. Problem with that is that at the corners of the cutters, the metal is sharpened the thinnest, so you need clean wood to cut. Next fastest is full chisel round ground. 10% slower overall, but it will hold an edge longer. Next is semi chisel, which is 10% slower still. But it holds an edge the longest, and hence in the woods is actually the fastest cutting and far more immune to dirt and crud (dull chains are pretty useless). So here is where racing chains fall short. Out in the woods where dirt and sand and crud rule.

As for running PM (picco) chain on the 260, that has and can be done. You cannot use a standard 3/8 bar though, as the nose sprocket is wider and the chain will ride up on the end of the bar. You need a large mount picco bar which were made by Stihl at one time for the 024, and are available through places like LogoSol (chainsaw mill company). The rims are a PITA to get, but I found a P7 rim at one dealer a few years ago. Many run picco milling with larger Stihls, and most that I know run them with spur sprockets on those saws.