Quartersawn vs Flatsawn

slabmaster

Ok,Which is more prone to cracking throughout it's lifetime when going through humidity changes, quartersawn or flatsawn lumber when sliced or planed thin? I'm not talking about anything else such as strength,cupping,twisting,bowing, or swelling.I'm not going to say yet as i want to see what others think on this subject.Thanks,Mark

TreeDimensional

Quarter saw lumber will crack more! But before I put forward my explanation I will let the others voice their opinion.

Leif Raukleiv

I've been thinking a lot about this question. I am not sure if I fully understand what you are asking for. Do you mean cracking during the drying and seasoning process, or cracking of finished products like tables or cabinets? If so, I think the carpenter must have made a mistake, done something wrong. Finished furniture shall not crack unless exposed to water, and that's no good idea.

But cracking during the drying process is a problem all millers and carpenters are struggling with. I have no long experience with quarter sawing, I hadn't even heard about it before I bought my Logosol mill some years ago. I knew of course about the advantage of using quarter sawn planks for furniture. That gives more stabile wood without curving. But turning the log on purpose special ways to get as many quarter sawn planks as possible, is not well known here. Another matter is that milling big logs, we will get some qs. lumber anyway, just because of the size of the trunk.
Last autumn I milled some huge oak logs, and I tried out this qs method, and found it quite interesting. I have described the job in the owner’s forum at the Logosol site, so I will not repeat it here. I post a link for those who might be interested.
http://http://www.logosolforum.com/u...1d46960a90ecc1


However, I have been working with wood all my grown-up life, and therefore I'll jump into it and post some general thoughts about this subject.

First a picture of a quarter sawn plank 2x6", cut from a big log. It has been drying for one year, and there are no cracks at all.




In the next picture we see a plain sawn plank, same size as the previous one. It has one big crack and several smaller ones (blue arrows). The problem with plain sawn planks is that there are both sapwood and inner wood in the same plank. Sapwood is more porous, contains more water, dries faster, and shrinks more than inner wood. Upper side dries and shrinks therefore more and faster (big arrows) than the underside (small arrows). If that were not enough, the inner parts of the plank dry slower than the outside. Thus there will be a conflict inside the plank between parts with different shrinking. The result is cracking.
The blue rectangle shows a possible q.sawn piece. Q.sawn lumber will not have the same conflict inside. Sapwood in one end, not all around.



We see in both this picture and the next one that cracks follow a special pattern, they go radially, from the pith and out. That is the natural way for wood to crack. Even with a hydraulic woodsplitter we will se that wood splits more easily this way than parallel to the growth rings.


As far as I can see, plainsawn lumber is more prone to cracking than q.sawn. If 100% q.sawn planks crack, the crack will be parallel to the surface. That means it will be hidden inside the plank and will do no harm.

This is how I see it. This thread has been sleeping too long, now I am looking forward to a lot of posts from others.

Leif.

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slabmaster

Your pictures are of thick wood.I am concerned with only thin wood and boards,such as 3/32" thick.When drying AND after dry.AS first stated by me when i started this post. THanks,Mark

Eric Frei

Gee, that's thin.

What machine do you cut that with?

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slabmaster

I mill them 1/2" thick on my csm,then run through the planer to 1/8", then thickness sand on a Delta drum sander to 3/32".And then build guitars.

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Leif Raukleiv

Interesting to see what the question is about. I guess you have more pics?

Yes, my pictures are from thick wood, but to understand wood's natural way of cracking and cracking pattern, it is better to look at thicker planks. Then we'll se that it cracks radially, along the pith beams and not across them. You'll have to use force to make it crack that way.

It is teoretically possible to slice off sheets of 1/8" on my Logosol mill, but then there will be little left for plaining. 1/4" or 3/8" is more realistic, and then chain and tuning must be perfect.
We make some wooden boxes at school, it's an old Nordic model. We use both plain sawn and q.sawn wood for the side, and I would say the quarter sawn is best.

I have no guitar here, but do I remember wrong if I think that top and bottom usually are q. sawn?

Here is a picture of a box made by a pupil (girl). The side is quarter sawn.



Thanks for post, interesting discussion.
Leif.

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slabmaster

That's a nice box! How thick are the sides? My guitars get quartered spruce tops.And the sides and back can be both.Quilted maple is never quartersawn nor is birdseye maple, so they have to be flatsawn to get good figure.You get the best figure from flatsawn boards on most wood, not all.

Leif Raukleiv

The sides are 3mm thick (1/8"), cut with circular saw from a bigger plank, ashwood. Myself, I build also some bigger ones about 50 cm diameter. Then I need a thickness of 5 mm or so. These boxes are for a special type of thin, dry bread.

I agree that flatsawn give better figure on a lot of types of wood. Or, q.s. and f.s. wood may be both beautiful in their own different ways.
What does quilted mean? "Flames"?

Leif.

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slabmaster

This is a quilted guitar.It was flatsawn.Most flamed maple is quartersawn but doesn't look the same as this.

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Leif Raukleiv

Wow, that was really beautiful, both wood and work. Do you mill all your lumber yourself too?
Leif.

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Garry Brockley

That is pure talent.

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slabmaster

I mill or resaw all my own lumber for guitar building.I also build native american flutes with the wood i mill.I think it means more to cut the tree and mill and build to finished instrument with my hands only.

Leif Raukleiv

I agree: It's a special feeling to make it all by yourself, even knowing exactly where on this earth that particular tree grew.
Concerning this wonderful maple jewellery: You have perhaps no maplegarden where you may cut down a tree now and then. How do you get such pieces?
Leif

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slabmaster

I am lucky to have nice trees on the 15 acres i own in 2 different locations.Lots of hardwood including maple.I don't build much with exotic woods for the reason i stated earlier.I would rather use lumber that i made.I do however use other lumber when comisioned to built with exotic wood from time to time which i resaw . But i prefer to use wood form my own wood lots.

Leif Raukleiv

You probably have (or can make) a lot of pics from your mill, wood lots, workshop, instruments........?
I am looking forward to a thread like "My story" by slabmaster. Or what do you think, guys?

Leif

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Leif Raukleiv

Slabmaster, do you know the "harding fiddle"? A special violin for Norwegian hillbilly music?
Here is a picture of one made by Knut G. Helland who died too young i 1920 in America.



Leif.

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slabmaster

THat's a fancy violin.He must have been very talented.You asked for some pictures of my milling on my woodlot. Here is one.

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themoudie

Gentlemen,

I've been reading your thread and have enjoyed it. Whilst I work in the UK forestry industry, I don't actually do much 'wood working'. My job entails digging holes and mapping the soils to see what might be grown. However, I digress and think that you will both enjoy taking the time to read this complete site, I never grow tired of viewing it and would dearly love to "Have a go!"

http://http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat.htm

I hope the 'link' works.

My regards, Bill.

themoudie

The link should work now! Bill.

slabmaster

Thanks for reposting the link Bill! I enjoyed reading it.