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5th May 2007, 03:58 AM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Over mature heritage tree  Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 564
|  The Tower of Google Just put this article together tonight... http://www.mdvaden.com/tower_of_google.shtml I've watched about 50 related websites that I could compete with for several years. Ones that I know the credentials of, and have watched the text and vocabulary of, down to minute details. The conclusion is that Google's PageRank is dancing all over the place, up and down like a Yo Yo, while most of these sites have improved in content and quality, and 95% - wise, kept their solid upper results on the first page of search results for various keywords. PageRank is fit for the trash can. |
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6th May 2007, 03:49 PM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Mature tree  Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal
Posts: 283
| Hi there, Ol?,  Read it and know what you're on about but have a look at this. I bought "Dreamweaver 8" off Ebay and did my little site with limited knowledge of how to use the product as you can probably tell. It's more of a blog really. Very little content and bugger all links to other sites bar 1. The thing is this was only 2 months ago with very little time or effort but just look at the ranking if you tap in "english builder in Portugal" or any of the keywords displayed on the description. I know, maybe there aren't many here, builders that is, from England. I simply beleive that it is all to do with you're Metatags and not the site content. I never even heard of a metatag until 2 months ago when my server mentioned them and clued me up on how to use them. I do realise that if everyone was using the same tags then ranking may depend further on site content but I don't really know. I'm not smart enough to build a better site and I haven't the time to keep updating it, but I'm happy with where it got in a couple of months. Many Beers  Nick.
__________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken!  Builder in Central Portugal |
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6th May 2007, 04:22 PM
| #3 (permalink) | |
| Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 564
| Quote:
SINGULAR .... But for "Portland landscape designers" .... PLURAL ... my site was about 300 - thirty pages later. That home page only had the word "designer" - singular. So of the 6 or so occurances of "designer" on my home page, I added an "s" to about 3 of them to get the plural "designers" and figured out a way word-it into my tags too. In 3 days, my site moved from #300 to about #11. In the week, it went all the way to #2 or so. And the page rank never budged an inch. It was not an update season for Google. When you did your site, did you look at it in code view, or design view? Both? I like both. Buenos tardes Last edited by mdvaden : 6th May 2007 at 07:04 PM. | |
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6th May 2007, 04:39 PM
| #4 (permalink) |
| Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some  Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,606
| Mario I think he built his site in flash, so about all he'd have on a good day is meta tags ... bots cant read flash content. PR rank is unusual. Over here I experience the opposite Mario. I have sites with bugger all content, bugger all inbound links etc beating me out of PR rank ... doesn't make sense. We pull those sites apart and scratch our heads, it appears Googles emphasis on PR rank out weighs other decent web content ... that's my personal experience. I wont put those website URL's here as they dont deserve the link! I'm in the middle of doing a test on one of my other sites, focusing on page rank to see what it does. Mario, the way Google does it is a unusual and a mystery, however what we dont know is what weighting is given to PR compared to all the other things. You have many ezines, blogs and forum links all over the place ... highly likely the influence PR plays on your site is minimal and even if some-one has a larger PR they wont jump ahead due to the other advantages you have. Another important factor to ranking is where your host is. For example my sites are hosted on a USA server but I'm targeting Brisbane ... this is a major negative but to host here is way expensive, so again Google makes it harder for me thinking I'm in the USA and puts crap sites in front. Google was also to give low credit to non related site links. For example, a site on pottery linking to a tree site carries less weight than a site on rose pruning and so on. Driven off keywords the probability of the pottery site mentioning trees or pruning is zero compared to the other. Once again though a competing site to mine is in front purely because of high PR from unrelated web master building sites. Google certainly has it's problems, it certainly has it's inconsistencies, and it certainly is an unknown animal to some degree as to how it friggin works for SEO and Webmasters .... .... I continually monitor and tweak my site but some of the BS I see get in front is a joke. Like I said I wont list them here as it gives them links.
__________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors |
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6th May 2007, 05:07 PM
| #5 (permalink) | |
| Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 564
| Quote:
In that case, it would be irrelevant what you page rank was previously - your only goal would be trying to duplicate what gave the other site the advantage. We could make that change if we could figure it out, but if Google changed its programming next time around, both our sites and the one we "copy-catted" could both drop like a brick - in which case again, the PageRank is irrelevant for us. I think that Google lends weight to .org site in our area, that could only be matched by going .org And I think that if a website says "official site" in it and other backlink descriptions also say "official site" that that has an effect - seems sensible really. What better site than the "official site" ??  From seeing some very old sites rank high for no apparent reason, I think that SEOs are right that say "age" has a good part in it. If that's true, then there is nothing we can do to artificially age our sites, which means that PageRank is irrelevant. So it seems that every angle I look at, says that PageRank means there is something hidden behind the PageRank, and no way tells us what feature or features about the other site makes it have that number. Last edited by mdvaden : 6th May 2007 at 07:03 PM. | |
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6th May 2007, 08:18 PM
| #6 (permalink) |
| Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,606
| PR is a weird beast. How it works. If a site of pre-existing higher PR links to you it helps increase your PR. And vice versa. If for example you link to a site of lower PR then Google thinks that site has more to offer or content that you dont have so devalues your PR. Now this all works on averages and some other hidden BS we'll never know about.
__________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors |
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6th May 2007, 10:57 PM
| #7 (permalink) |
| Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 564
| What got me though, is that one of the higher PR landscape designer sites, has had only like 6 backlinks from minimal to so-so websites, and maintained a 5, while most of the rest of us with many backlinks, and some sites done by good SEOs, held a mere PR of 3 and 4. That's the kind of thing that made me be very unsure about whether Google is really giving the credit for a link from a higher site, or is really giving credit from a "relevant" site. The secrecy and cloak of the green meter really leaves a lot of guessing. Ever been lurking in the SEO forums where the webmasters are panicking as their site rise and plunge? What's odd - many of them have dozens or hundreds of good backlinks so they claim - and I see no reason to doubt them. At next Google dance, all their good rank backlink sites haven't changed, yet they say they've fallen off the face of the planet in the SERPs. |
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7th May 2007, 03:34 AM
| #8 (permalink) |
| Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal
Posts: 283
| I'm going back in to the code for a tweak as I come nowhere when "builders" is used intead of "builder". You've got me going now. Cheers. Just added "builders" into the "Keywords metatag". I presume it will take a while to be noticed by the bots or it might ruin my PR altogether, time will tell.
__________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal Last edited by clementine : 7th May 2007 at 06:38 AM. |
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7th May 2007, 01:44 PM
| #9 (permalink) | |
| Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 564
| Quote:
I hear that some engines compensate by searching for both plural or singular, even if just singular is used. But what I've seen, shows that its better to vary the text. You can avoid "killing yourself" sometimes, by making a second page. My home page used to cover the bases for "landscape designer" and "certified arborist". But in time, I made a "landscape design" page with design and designer in the tags and text. Likewise for "certified arborist". I'm not quite sure how your search will work from outside the USA, but go to Google and type: "Portland certified arborist" In quotes and without quotes - it should show my REFERRAL page for certified arborist first, and at my end, puts my home page secondary beneath it. Anyway, one page for each major niche or service, when added onto the site, typically helps a lot. If the service is very straight-forward and easy to write about on one page, then one page should be fine. | |
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7th May 2007, 02:22 PM
| #10 (permalink) |
| Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,606
| We tend to use the words QUALIFIED rather than certified, that certified is an ISA USA thing. Type in Brisbane qualified arborist. #1 
__________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors |
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7th May 2007, 03:07 PM
| #11 (permalink) |
| Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal
Posts: 283
|  Checked out both your sites, both at #1, good on you. Looks like a lot of time and effort has gone in, if you both did it all yourselves then I am in awe.+ Erics site we're on. If you include a link back to the homepage on every step into the site then you are only ever one step back from it. I've also added "builders" into the "description metatag" now so will wait to see what if anything changes. If nothing does in a couple of months I will look at the site content, which will only take a couple a ticks, and have a fiddle. Where do you guys get the time? Many beers Nick.
__________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal |
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8th May 2007, 10:11 AM
| #12 (permalink) | |
| Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 564
| Quote:
Sitting on the bed or living room typing. I bought the laptop for our wireless, so I would go away isolated in the far room away from the family. And I like writing stuff. I've been on a lot lately, during a slight slowdown in business, due to weather, holidays and tax payment season. Some months, I'm only on periodically. Occassionally, I'll pack it away and our family will play more cards, or I'll be swamped with work. Once I move to Portland, I'll be much busier in work. I really need to sell and get out of this smaller town where good landscape work is quite limited and too many trees are just not cared for as well as up north. Half this town is a "if it lives it lives" and an "if it dies it dies" mentality. | |
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