Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R

Eric Frei · 22nd August 2010, 10:04 AM

Viewing of video restricted to over 18

You Tube

The story here and here.

Quote:

Wikileaks has just released this disturbing footage of the killing of Iraqi civilians by US helicopter gunships in August July 2007. This is really horrific. The so-called weapons that the gunship soldiers thought they saw were all in fact cameras. They shot to death a group of people walking down the street, and then slaughtered people with children coming to help the wounded, just because some of them had cameras

second-gen_monkey · 27th August 2010, 12:36 PM

it's truely horrible that these things happen. especially when we have no business being over there in the first place. or afgan or the many places we "are not".

our govenments (led, unfortunately by "mine" the usa) are occupying a region that never has and never will have a working centralized government. you can't force a bunch of (effectively) tribes to work together as a whole for the benifit of the people (aka our governments, oil companies, and gem/precious metal industries). it didn't work in somalia, cambodia, vietnam, korea (they are still commies) most of africa, for that fact or jerusalem. no matter how much money or how many bodies we throw at it you just cant remove the deep-seated religious/ethical/pollitical hate that permiates these regions. the middle east is a desert, deserts are historically know as areas of pointless conflict. we are fighting a pointless "operation"

Eric Frei · 27th August 2010, 06:32 PM

Honestly, how the hell can you tell a good guy from a bad guy over there to us ..... we've had quite a few young dead Aussies shipped back from Afghanistan recently, it's a covert war.

The guys in that chopper simply assumed a lot of stuff, I can see why and how but the cover up is terrible.

If you read the story in the links of this thread you can see what they are up against.

General Stan McChrystal - Afghanistan - Obama might sack him

Also there's a huge cover up on the USA using depleted uranium ammo in Iraq, the cancer, leukemia, child mortality and deformity rates are through the roof. However the USA is funding the hospitals so everyone is shutting up.

Eric Frei · 27th August 2010, 07:21 PM

Fresh in:-

Commandos to be charged over children's deaths - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Quote:

Charges will be laid against some Australian soldiers involved in a deadly night raid in which five children were killed in Afghanistan last year.

Early last year six Afghans were killed during an Australian Special Operations Task Group raid targeting an insurgent leader in Uruzgan province.

Four of the dead were small children. Two more children and two adults were also wounded.

An operational investigation into the incident was referred to the director of military prosecutions, who has now recommended charges against some of the special forces soldiers involved in the raid.

Australia Defence Association head Neil James says the director of military prosecutions operates outside the Australian Defence Force chain of command.

"We know that the independent director of military prosecutions, which is an independent statutory office, has recommended charges," he said.

"Really we just have to see what the next step is."

Mr James says while some in the Defence Force will inevitably be upset over charges being laid, he believes the process has been necessary.

"This is a very complex war in legal and moral and logistical and operational terms, but that doesn't mean that the Defence Force can have open slather in the way they fight it," he said.

"Australia is a country that abides by international humanitarian law and we require our soldiers to adhere to that law.

"That is what separates us from the barbarism of the Taliban."

Rules of engagement

Mr James says the charges are bound to be controversial.

"It may very well be that the soldiers charged will be found innocent and get off but at least the allegations against them will have been heard in an open court," he said.

The ADF says charges will affect the way soldiers operate in Afghanistan because soldiers will be worried about what the effects of their actions will be in terms of them being disciplined after the event.

Mr James says while that may be true, the charges are necessary.

"Soldiers already have to apply force using orders for opening fire and rules of engagement that can be quite complex in legal and moral terms," he said.

"It will have some effect on the ground, but the alternative would have an even greater effect - that is Australia becomes a country that condones actions outside the rules of engagement either accidentally or deliberately."

Therrin · 27th August 2010, 11:41 PM

I'd like to point something out.

During segments of the video where it's made very apparent to us, the viewers, what is going on both by narrative, arrows, magnification and slowed down replay; the soldiers involved in the incident didn't have the use of those things to help them see what was truly the case.

That having been said, that video is absolutely horrifying. When you see that the men on the ground did not "look" suspicious, that you couldn't actually identify any "weapons" they had, the false statement saying the choppers were being shot at, the completely inhumane way they were communicating to eachother... its sickening.

I understand that in war, dehumanization of your enemy is a taught-thing, and that dark humor goes hand in hand with all jobs related to dealing with the dead and the dying (ambulance crews, hospital staff, firemen, etc); these soldiers are just plain trigger happy.

There's no reason they couldn't have treated the children at the best hospital they could get them to instead of a local Iraqui hospital. Even if this were a true combat situation and even if it truly was armed troops (which it obviously was NOT), there is no reason not to give the children involved the utmost of care.

What a sad video. I'm going to pass this on to some friends of mine and see what their response is.

TreeLuva · 27th September 2010, 08:46 PM

That was truly an appalling film. I appreciate that the boys in these crap places have a difficult job to do but given their clearly superior fire power you think they could make sure before they kill everything in sight. I showed that film to some of my mates and one of them thought it was 'funny'. He's left now!

27th August 2010, 12:36 PM	#2
second-gen_monkey Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: miami, fl Posts: 121	Re: Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R it's truely horrible that these things happen. especially when we have no business being over there in the first place. or afgan or the many places we "are not". our govenments (led, unfortunately by "mine" the usa) are occupying a region that never has and never will have a working centralized government. you can't force a bunch of (effectively) tribes to work together as a whole for the benifit of the people (aka our governments, oil companies, and gem/precious metal industries). it didn't work in somalia, cambodia, vietnam, korea (they are still commies) most of africa, for that fact or jerusalem. no matter how much money or how many bodies we throw at it you just cant remove the deep-seated religious/ethical/pollitical hate that permiates these regions. the middle east is a desert, deserts are historically know as areas of pointless conflict. we are fighting a pointless "operation" __________________ "I love my job, if you can't fix it, cut it down!"- Heard while watching a certain tree company with big orange trucks work. 6 years exp as a "ground work technician" specializing in "debris removal and placement" 3 years climbing training 1 year diesel mechanics school 22 years doing this --->

27th August 2010, 06:32 PM	#3
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R Honestly, how the hell can you tell a good guy from a bad guy over there to us ..... we've had quite a few young dead Aussies shipped back from Afghanistan recently, it's a covert war. The guys in that chopper simply assumed a lot of stuff, I can see why and how but the cover up is terrible. If you read the story in the links of this thread you can see what they are up against. General Stan McChrystal - Afghanistan - Obama might sack him Also there's a huge cover up on the USA using depleted uranium ammo in Iraq, the cancer, leukemia, child mortality and deformity rates are through the roof. However the USA is funding the hospitals so everyone is shutting up. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

27th August 2010, 11:41 PM	#5
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R I'd like to point something out. During segments of the video where it's made very apparent to us, the viewers, what is going on both by narrative, arrows, magnification and slowed down replay; the soldiers involved in the incident didn't have the use of those things to help them see what was truly the case. That having been said, that video is absolutely horrifying. When you see that the men on the ground did not "look" suspicious, that you couldn't actually identify any "weapons" they had, the false statement saying the choppers were being shot at, the completely inhumane way they were communicating to eachother... its sickening. I understand that in war, dehumanization of your enemy is a taught-thing, and that dark humor goes hand in hand with all jobs related to dealing with the dead and the dying (ambulance crews, hospital staff, firemen, etc); these soldiers are just plain trigger happy. There's no reason they couldn't have treated the children at the best hospital they could get them to instead of a local Iraqui hospital. Even if this were a true combat situation and even if it truly was armed troops (which it obviously was NOT), there is no reason not to give the children involved the utmost of care. What a sad video. I'm going to pass this on to some friends of mine and see what their response is.

27th September 2010, 08:46 PM	#6
TreeLuva Sappling Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 10	Re: Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R That was truly an appalling film. I appreciate that the boys in these crap places have a difficult job to do but given their clearly superior fire power you think they could make sure before they kill everything in sight. I showed that film to some of my mates and one of them thought it was 'funny'. He's left now!

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