Julian Assange and Wikileaks

Eric Frei · 24th December 2010, 07:17 AM

If you haven't heard of this guy or website then you really need to get out more.

For over 6 months I have been playing close attention to the site and him. Read just about every news article etc, in fact some of the details of this thread came from their site.

At the moment Assange is out on bail in UK awaiting an extradition court case in February 2011 as the Swiss authorities want him for some alleged sex assualt case. But that's not what this thread is about, it's about him, his website and law.

I find it rather ironic that even after the Australian Federal Police confirm he has broken no Australian laws people as high up as Prime Minister Gillard do not retract her erronerous statement.

Quote:

"I absolutely condemn the placement of this information on the Wikileaks website," Gillard reportedly told Fairfax Radio. "It's a grossly irresponsible thing to do and an illegal thing to do."

Gillard's statements were made outside of parliament and are therefore not subject to parliamentary privilege, which would have exempted her from a defamation suit.

Now Gillard is a lawyer, imagine that.

Quote:

Julia Gillard is a graduate of the University of Melbourne in both law (1987) and arts (1990). At Melbourne, and earlier at the University of Adelaide, Gillard was active in student politics. She was president of both the Adelaide University Union and the Australian Union of Students.

One of the first female partners in the law firm Slater & Gordon at the age of 29, she specialised in industrial law.

Gillard under pressure to explain WikiLeaks comments - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Quote:

"She is a lawyer. She well knows about the presumption of innocence," she said.

Now the irony is that Wikileaks only posted up documents that were leaked to it, they didn't actually steal or hack to get those documents.

They now have mirror sites to protect them from hacks and going off line.

WikiLeaks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Hosting

WikiLeaks describes itself as "an uncensorable system for untraceable mass document leaking".[73] The site is available on multiple servers and different domain names following a number of denial-of-service attacks and its severance from different Domain Name System (DNS) providers.[74][75]

Currently, WikiLeaks is hosted by PRQ, a Sweden-based company providing "highly secure, no-questions-asked hosting services". PRQ is said to have "almost no information about its clientele and maintains few if any of its own logs".[76] The servers are spread around the world with the central server located in Sweden.[77] Julian Assange has said that the servers are located in Sweden (and the other countries) "specifically because those nations offer legal protection to the disclosures made on the site". He talks about the Swedish constitution, which gives the information providers total legal protection.[77] It is forbidden according to Swedish law for any administrative authority to make inquiries about the sources of any type of newspaper.[78] These laws, and the hosting by PRQ, make it difficult to take WikiLeaks offline. Furthermore, "Wikileaks maintains its own servers at undisclosed locations, keeps no logs and uses military-grade encryption to protect sources and other confidential information." Such arrangements have been called "bulletproof hosting."[76][79]

On 17 August 2010, it was announced that the Swedish Pirate Party will be hosting and managing many of WikiLeaks' new servers. The party donates servers and bandwidth to WikiLeaks without charge. Technicians of the party will make sure that the servers are maintained and working.[80][81]

Some servers are hosted in an underground nuclear bunker in Stockholm.[82][83]

After the site became the target of a denial-of-service attack from a hacker on its old servers, WikiLeaks moved its site to Amazon's servers.[84] Later, however, the website was "ousted" from the Amazon servers.[84] In a public statement, Amazon said that WikiLeaks was not following its terms of service. The company further explained, "There were several parts they were violating. For example, our terms of service state that 'you represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to the content... that use of the content you supply does not violate this policy and will not cause injury to any person or entity.' It's clear that WikiLeaks doesn't own or otherwise control all the rights to this classified content."[85] WikiLeaks then decided to install itself on the servers of OVH in France.[86] After criticism from the French government, the company sought two court rulings about the legality of hosting WikiLeaks. While the court in Lille immediately declined to force OVH to shut down the WikiLeaks site, the court in Paris stated it would need more time to examine the highly technical issue.[87][88]

Many of the recently dumped documents and cables have embarrassed and exposed countries and people, some argue that should never have happened, others argue of course it should have.

To me it's not so much about whether or not Assange or Wikileaks is right or wrong, but it's about the legalities of such.

Darrell Mcleod · 24th December 2010, 08:24 AM

and of course - freedom

Garry Brockley · 24th December 2010, 08:32 AM

If the documents are leaked to wikileaks and then they make them accessable to the general public i don't see how legally they can try him as he committed no theft, journalists do this every day, in every country so why are they targetting him? probably because he has embarrased the USA government in a big way, they have denied it but they put their best hackers on this to stop the leaks a bit like the little dutch boy with his finger in the dyke, you know it's going to go but you plug it all the same.
I think they will find some jumped up charge to get him legally but it's not just him there are hundreds of people who work for this site and they certainly won't stop bringing the facts to the forefront.
good luck wikileaks.

Jamie Myers · 25th December 2010, 06:20 AM

Very strange how he s suddenly public enemy No1, and wanted on sex crime charges.

Conspiracy ???

Leif Raukleiv · 25th December 2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

At the moment Assange is out on bail in UK awaiting an extradition court case in February 2011 as the Swiss authorities want him for some alleged sex assualt case. But that's not what this thread is about, it's about him, his website and law.

Not Swiss, Swedish.
I think Assange is a thief and a criminal. Well, he hasn't stolen the documents himself, but he uses them, probably to earn money. He is a receiver of stolen things.
Imagine, if someone placed microphones inside boardrooms in companies, schools, hospitals ....... and soon after everyone could read about it on internet?
A lot of people have given a promise of secrecy in their profession. If they break it, they'll lose their job. And here comes a receiver and throws it out all over the world!

Jeff Darby · 25th December 2010, 08:40 AM

I think you should be able to publish information freely available to the public. After all America is supposed to be the land of the free ! However I also feel that good judgement should used in exercising this right. When we have troops fighting a enemy that uses our technology against us and place our soldiers at risk of ambush you should withhold that piece of information until it is over and no longer poses a threat to our fighting men and women of the world.

To me it would seem the Americans are using the rico laws to try and nail Assange.

Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arrest them on suspicion of whatever and prove it later !

Eric Frei · 25th December 2010, 09:36 AM

They'll go the espionage route. It defines it as the publication of secret documents without owners consent, so regardless of how he came in possession of it, he cops it.

Prosecute Assange with espionage act - USATODAY.com

Quote:

12/14/2010
With WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange under arrest in England, calls for his prosecution intensify. The U.S. government has every right to pursue him under the 1917 Espionage Act. What has been missing in the debate is how to do this without compromising core First Amendment values.

Fortunately, because Assange's conduct differs so fundamentally from that of any journalist, the Justice Department should be able to prosecute him using clear limiting principles, capable of restraining any future misuse of these laws against the news media. Indeed, without such limiting principles being prominently featured in an indictment against him, the government's case would be both ill-advised and ultimately fail.

The threat posed by Assange is different from the occasional disclosures by officials to reporters covering national security issues. No government can stand by while its sensitive military and diplomatic materials are dumped indiscriminately onto the Internet in raw, unexpurgated format. But if the administration or Congress overreaches in seeking a remedy, it will damage democracy, and will never pass muster in the courts.

Assange no journalist

The good news is that Assange is no journalist devoted to informing the public about the issues of the day. Rather, he is a person determined to destabilize: Leave me to my devices, he says, or computers around the globe will automatically release the "Doomsday Files," containing even more destructive information. That's not journalism; that's blackmail, and no news organization would act this way. Assange's failure to analyze the documents he has released or provide any analytical narrative also fundamentally distinguishes him from any journalist.

Assange might think of himself as a modern-day Daniel Ellsberg, the RAND analyst who provided the secret military documents to The New York Timesand The Washington Post that led to the Pentagon Papers showdown in 1971 at the U.S. Supreme Court. But the figure from the 1970s he most resembles is not Ellsberg but Philip Agee, a CIA case officer who in 1975 bared the identities of hundreds of alleged covert operatives in his book Inside the Company: CIA Diary.

Congressional action

Agee was never prosecuted, but in response to his calculated campaign to name names, Congress later criminalized this conduct in the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Mindful of the risks any leaks statute posed to the press, lawmakers ensured that when it came to private citizens, the law would reach only those whose "pattern of activities" made it clear that it was "their business to ferret out and publish the identities of agents." It would not criminalize disclosures that were an "integral part of another enterprise such as news media reporting."

No journalist has been prosecuted under the law. A similar, but unwritten, understanding has long defined the Espionage Act. While the statute by its terms does not exempt the news media, the government has never put a reporter on trial for publishing state secrets.

Yet, federal prosecutors have given journalists reason to feel less secure. In 2005, they sued two lobbyists for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee who had received classified information about the Iranian nuclear program and then shared it with reporters. The case collapsed, but not before the government won a ruling that the espionage statute could be applied to anyone, even private citizens bound by no secrecy oath — in theory, the news media.

As the government pursues WikiLeaks, it must lay down defining markers — such as those used in the Intelligence Identities Protection Act — to shield news reporting and affirm that it will not use the espionage laws to chill the exercise of press freedoms. While Assange's conduct is aimed at harming U.S. security, the subsequent media coverage of the leaked cables has been discerning and discriminating. It deserves full protection.

As no journalists have ever been prosecuted for espionage I think the USA is covering all it's bases first for any options of defence. The act has been expanded to include "others", ensure he cannot use the journalist defence, leaving the door open for charging him.

But they need to get him to the USA first. He may seek immunity, from Switzerland he would have best chance and he has mentioned that is his best base for operations in Switzerland but the Swiss have this crappy sex charge on him. This has happened I think not out of coincidence but co-operation to futher shut doors for the man. He may have been better off in some 3rd world country that has no ties with any western power (who knows and just speculation) so he cannot be extradited.

TreeCo · 25th December 2010, 01:48 PM

Ron Paul says it for me.

Ron Paul: Shouldn't WikiLeaks Make Us Ask Whether We Are Getting Our $80 Billion Worth In Intelligence Gathering?

Eric Frei · 25th December 2010, 05:03 PM

LOL, that guys a straight shooter alright, hits the nail on the head.

YouTube - Lying is Not Patriotic

Ron Paul: Shouldn't WikiLeaks Make Us Ask Whether We Are Getting Our $80 Billion Worth In Intelligence Gathering?

Quote:

Dec. 10, 2010
Between his reaction to WikiLeaks and his views on the deficit Ron Paul may well find himself with enough ground support to launch a formidable 2012 campaign.

Yesterday he went on the floor of the House to school Congress in the fact Julian Assange can't actually be arrested.

He further questioned why Assange is the target when it's the Government who couldn't protect its own information. And anyway, why the hell are we paying so much for intelligence gathering if this is what we are gathering.

"Any information that challenges the official propaganda for the wars in the Middle East is un-welcomed by the administration and supporters of these unnecessary wars. Few are interested in understanding the relationship between our foreign policy in the Middle East and the threat of terrorism."

Also: Which has resulted in the most deaths? "Lying us into war, or the release of the WikiLeaks papers?"

Now Gillard is interesting, as the Deputy Prime Minister for Kevin Rudd she actually ousted him. She also governs now, and never won the election. Liberals (Abbott) actually won 71 seats and Labor (Gillard) had 70 seats. There were 3 independent seats which gave their support to Labor (Gillard) who now governs.... what has this all got to do with it? Simple, I think people like her do not like places like Wikileaks, what is done in the back rooms best stay there eh.

Eric Frei · 26th December 2010, 05:24 PM

And cop a load of this type of stuff!

Julian Assange's book deals worth $1.5 million | Herald Sun

Quote:

December 26, 2010
Credit-card companies Visa and MasterCard and the internet payment firm PayPal have blocked donations to WikiLeaks, prompting Assange to label them "instruments of US foreign policy".

The Bank of America, the largest US bank, has also halted all transactions to WikiLeaks.

derwoodii · 27th December 2010, 08:47 PM

Interesting all this wikileaking but so far not one thread or line or a word to support any conspiracy theory's so far nup nuthin nix zip for 9/11 Moon fake GW deny climategate JFK area51and so on.
Are the hidden men in black way too smart or more the likely don't exist.
The fantasy that we are controlled by greater minds is falling apart as we sadly learn that they are just immature little men who can't pull off a simple collaborative act of foreign policy with out sookin by cable emails over split milk or gettin caught with their pants down.

Suffer does the tax payer who give these fools a vote.

Much is claimed that Governments or a Illuminati manipulates world events for personal gain or power. Hmm I dunno, these conspiracy theories eg Moon 911 GW Port Arthur fail in my mind as plausible being far to complicated to even plan let alone enact.
E.g ever had a day that goes to your own plan. Try managing staff then imagine getting them to fake a moon landing, shoot 35 people in cold blood or wire up the world trade.

Perhaps they can play around the edges gleaming what they can from event opportunities however I feel the big end conspiracies are just NQR.
We're findin to lower our expectation of our government, secret service and foreign policy makers.
Now it would be almost a joy if Wiki finds proof of a higher minds in control.

Victor Lindsay · 27th December 2010, 10:49 PM

Assange, himself, should have remand in the shadows. He now has the world gunning for him. Assange can not get enough money to protect him. As simple minded as ALL leaders are, they can create/fabricate many problems for Mr. Assange.

Eric Frei · 4th January 2011, 11:01 PM

We have a thread about whaling here.

Only 3 countries kill whales and they are Japan, Norway and Iceland.

Wikileaks got information leaked to them that USA was entertaining Jap discussion to make life tough for the protestors, I wonder why the USA gives a crap? Unless they have some interest in whale oil I suppose.

Japan, US 'plot' to sink activists | Herald Sun

Quote:

January 04, 2011
JAPAN and the US held talks about attacking the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society as Tokyo warned it would not compromise in international negotiations on cutting whale hunting while its fishermen were being harassed.

Leaked diplomatic cables show the US offered to "address" Sea Shepherd's tax-free status as officials from the two nations held talks ahead of last year's whaling season and negotiations in the International Whaling Commission aimed at cutting whaling quotas.

The cables were released by WikiLeaks as hostilities between Sea Shepherd protesters and Japanese whalers resumed. Two Sea Shepherd vessels were involved in a confrontation with the Japanese whaling fleet at the weekend when protesters were hosed with a high-pressure water cannon as they harassed whalers.

And the Gillard government yesterday faced increasing pressure to send an Australian vessel to the Southern Ocean to monitor the situation.

Opposition environment spokesman Greg Hunt said there was a "very real possibility of a major maritime incident".

"Both sides are capable of inflammatory action," Mr Hunt said as he called for Australia to play a "cop-on-the-beat role" and send a ship.

Tony Abbott said the government should make Australia's position "crystal clear".

"That is that we don't like whaling and we think Japan should cease and desist immediately," the Opposition Leader said.

Greens leader Bob Brown called for naval or aerial surveillance of the whaling, with filmed evidence released to the world's media.

The Greens also flagged introducing legislation aimed at prohibiting whaling in Australia's Antarctic waters and called on the government to seek an injunction in the International Court of Justice against the whaling hunt.

Australia already has started an action against Japanese "scientific whaling", but it could take another two years to be concluded.

Environment Minister Tony Burke said the government had consistently opposed whaling in the Southern Ocean.

"That's why the government initiated legal action in the International Court of Justice to seek to bring an end to Japan's so-called scientific whaling," Mr Burke said.

A cable from the US embassy in Tokyo to the US State Department, dated November 9, 2009, showed Fisheries Agency of Japan director-general Katsuhiro Machida raised Sea Shepherd with the US representative to the IWC Monica Medina. He warned the protests could "limit the government of Japan's flexibility" in whaling negotiations.

"He said action on the SSCS would be a major element for Japan in the success of the overall negotiations," the cable said.

"He said The Netherlands should have primary responsibility for taking action against the SSCS, but he appreciates the USG (US government) initiative to address the group's tax-exempt status."

A separate cable, dated January 27 last year, said Japanese Fisheries Agency deputy director-general Jun Yamashita told US officials that Sea Shepherd protests had kept the fleet from reaching its quota over the past few years.

The Japanese government would "come under pressure domestically" if Sea Shepherd harassment continued to keep Japanese whalers from filling their quota after an agreement on reducing whaling numbers.

Paul Watson, captain of the Sea Shepherd vessel Steve Irwin, said neither the US State Department nor the Internal Revenue Service had been in touch with the organisation regarding its tax-exempt status. He also confirmed Sea Shepherd had taken the Australian Tax Office to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal over its refusal to grant it tax-exempt status.

Eric Frei · 27th February 2011, 02:24 PM

LOL, It's OK for Bush to invade another country based on lies but he cant handle the release of documents. Assange never stole those documents or wrote them.

George W Bush snubs summit over Julian Assange speech | Herald Sun

Quote:

February 26, 2011

FORMER US president George W. Bush has scrapped plans to address a summit of young business executives this weekend because WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange would also speak to the group, his office says.

"The former President has no desire to share a forum with a man who has willfully and repeatedly done great harm to the interests of the United States," his spokesman, David Sherzer, said in a statement.

Mr Bush had accepted an invitation six months ago to deliver the closing keynote speech today to the Young Presidents' Association's Global Leadership Summit in Denver, Colorado, Mr Sherzer said.

"This week, upon learning that Julian Assange had recently been invited to address the same summit, President Bush decided to cancel his appearance," said Mr Sherzer.

The summit's schedule lists Mr Bush as making the closing keynote speech, while Mr Assange does not appear, but the Denver Business Journal reported this week that the 39-year-old Australian was slated to address attendees via satellite.

YPO describes itself on its website as a global network of 18,000 successful young business executives in more than 100 countries. It also says the summit aimed to foster a discussion of "the latest developments in globalisation, the role of visionary leadership, and global political and social conflicts".

"We regret that our members will not be able to hear from President Bush," YPO International Chairman Jill Belconis said in a statement.

"We hope to have him participate in another YPO event in the future.

"YPO's only mission is to enable members to become better leaders through education and idea exchange," she said.

playfordtree · 27th February 2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derwoodii

......Much is claimed that Governments or a Illuminati manipulates world events for personal gain or power. Hmm I dunno, these conspiracy theories......

I'm with you friend.

I believe in Incompetence over Conspiracy!

cheers
simmo

James Sayers · 28th February 2011, 08:15 AM

he is no different to politicians they lie cheat and a few would of been up on sex charges to they are the sc## of the earth gst carbon tax flood levey they will be taxing air next

Ted · 26th April 2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pomie

he is no different to politicians they lie cheat and a few would of been up on sex charges to they are the sc## of the earth gst carbon tax flood levey they will be taxing air next

It seems that no one bothered to bring up the point that a large catch of documents were sent to Mr Assange by a US army Private that somehow secured and exchanged for money these documents. He the private is presently being held at Fort Levenworth , KS. USA. Since the present lease holder in the white house can not or will not have this person brought up on charges. I would have no problem with issuing a court marshal against the private and if found guilty have him sentence to death, by firing squad. You see it's like this We are at war with an enemy that has no fear of dieing and will kill as many of us as they can in the name of a religion. Agree or not that is my take.

Eric Frei · 26th April 2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted

It seems that no one bothered to bring up the point that a large catch of documents were sent to Mr Assange by a US army Private that somehow secured and exchanged for money these documents.

Is there evidence of this or is it an allegation? If so who paid the private?

Latest out, seems there's many that give him documents:- WikiLeaks releases secret Guantanamo prison files | Privacy Inc. - CNET News

Quote:

April 25, 2011
A new classified data dump from WikiLeaks shines new light on the evidence, allegedly sometimes lacking, against the people that the U.S. government has held and is holding at the Guantanamo prison in Cuba.

The documents, provided in advance to news outlets including The New York Times, NPR, The Washington Post, and the U.K. Guardian newspaper, are classified at the "secret" level and include dossiers on individual prisoners, including their risk "assessment" by military evaluators. They were written between 2002 and 2008.

As of Sunday night, only a few dozen of the individual files had appeared on the main Wikileaks.ch Web site, although the group is promising that a total of 779 will be released in daily installments "over the coming month." WikiLeaks said the files include details on the first 201 prisoners held and released during the prison's early years that have "never been made public before."

The newest release is the fourth major document dump of confidential U.S. government files since WikiLeaks was launched in early 2007. It follows the July 2010 release of Afghanistan-related military documents, the October 2010 Iraq dispatches, and the more gradual release of State Department cables starting in November 2010--all of which were allegedly provided to WikiLeaks by Army private Bradley Manning.

Supporters of Manning, who his lawyer has said has been mistreated during his pretrial incarceration in Quantico, Va., spent over $76,000 to attend a fundraiser on Friday in San Francisco with President Obama so they could disrupt it. "He broke the law," Obama replied--a statement that has prompted some to question whether Manning can now expect to receive a fair trial.

The Guantanamo document release could increase pressure on U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to file criminal charges against WikiLeaks editor Julian Assange, who is in the U.K. facing possible extradition related to sexual assault allegations in Sweden, or against other principals. Some conservatives have called for cyberattacks on WikiLeaks' servers and a Fox News commentator implied that Assange could be legally assassinated as an "enemy combatant." A grand jury in Virginia has been empaneled as part of a WikiLeaks-related criminal investigation.

The Pentagon said in a statement it is "unfortunate" that news organizations are publishing the Guantanamo documents "obtained illegally" by WikiLeaks. "These documents contain classified information about current and former GTMO detainees, and we strongly condemn the leaking of this sensitive information."

The files reveal that intelligence agencies from China, Russia, and other repressive regimes were invited to interrogate inmates. An Al-Jazeera journalist was held in part to "to provide information on...the al-Jazeera news network's training program, telecommunications equipment, and newsgathering operations." Some detainees reportedly were nabbed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and were as young as 14 and as old as 89.

An essay by the Guardian's Julian Glover accompanying its Guantanamo coverage argues the disclosures of the classified files exposes a "system that tangled up the old and the young, the sick and the innocent. A system in which to say you were not a terrorist might be taken as evidence of your cunning." The Obama administration had planned to close the Guantanamo prison, but eventually abandoned the effort after opposition from Congress and security worries about transferring some of the prisoners to American soil.

It wasn't immediately clear who provided the Guantanamo files to the various news organizations. The Washington Post indicates it obtained them directly from WikiLeaks. But the New York Times disclosed in a "Note to Readers" that it obtained them from "another source," possibly a disgruntled ex-WikiLeaks volunteer or activist.

Ted · 26th April 2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

Is there evidence of this or is it an allegation? If so who paid the private?

Latest out, seems there's many that give him documents:- WikiLeaks releases secret Guantanamo prison files | Privacy Inc. - CNET News

Eric, FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!. The Private in the US Army did not secure the documents to distribute to just anyone, he made a deal with the Devil and now he can pay the $$. If he ever gets out of jail he will not live very long to enjoy the spoils of his actions. He was just a punk looking for $$ got caught and now he is looking at the rest of his life in jail or a firing squad.

Darrell Mcleod · 26th April 2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted

and now he is looking at the rest of his life in jail or a firing squad

bit hysterical and perhaps even deliberately inflammatory

when in the US did a soldier last face the firing squad I wonder?

and probably he will not get life in prison either

Ted · 26th April 2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisin_long

bit hysterical and perhaps even deliberately inflammatory

when in the US did a soldier last face the firing squad I wonder?

and probably he will not get life in prison either

Actually the last know recorded case was just before VE 1945 I believe his name was slovak, and he got his wish for being a deserter in war. Funny thing about the justice system in the prison system as well sometimes even more affective and much cheaper than the appeal process.

Darrell Mcleod · 26th April 2011, 09:21 PM

So you must agree then that your comment above

Quote:

and now he is looking at the rest of his life in jail or a firing squad

was what I said

Quote:

bit hysterical and perhaps even deliberately inflammatory

Why do that?

I just do not get it

Ted · 26th April 2011, 10:01 PM

Here in the states we have many expressions. One of many is the "punishment fits the crime". Since 9-11-2001 the US has been at war against an enemy that does not play by any set of rules and will do any thing to kill you or your family. May be your ability to not understand is due to the fact that you never lossed or knew of any loss from such an event. I in both cases have. In time the information that was stolen by a trator will be the cause of many lives lost. This may not matter to and that is fine by me. In my opinion a firing squad for this person is not good enough. Any one else involved deserves the same since anyone supporting my enemy is my enemy.

Darrell Mcleod · 27th April 2011, 12:11 AM

I love the USA and those who live there – ‘punishment that fits the crime’ is an expression we here know and understand well - problem is our politicians probably do not and penalties should be tougher for many crimes

9 – 11 was a tragedy beyond all proportions

That is not the point though

This bloke probably will not get the firing squad or life imprisonment and all I was saying such a statement was a bit hysterical and perhaps even deliberately inflammatory

That has nothing to do with my old mate when I was a kid who shared with me the horrors of the Korean War or why I went to the dawn service here for Anzac day yesterday morning or why I weep sometimes at the atrocity of war

I think I do understand but wish to keep things rational

Ted · 27th April 2011, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisin_long

I love the USA and those who live there – ‘punishment that fits the crime’ is an expression we here know and understand well - problem is our politicians probably do not and penalties should be tougher for many crimes

9 – 11 was a tragedy beyond all proportions

That is not the point though

This bloke probably will not get the firing squad or life imprisonment and all I was saying such a statement was a bit hysterical and perhaps even deliberately inflammatory

That has nothing to do with my old mate when I was a kid who shared with me the horrors of the Korean War or why I went to the dawn service here for Anzac day yesterday morning or why I weep sometimes at the atrocity of war

I think I do understand but wish to keep things rational

Rational and true based on what I know.

Eric Frei · 27th April 2011, 08:32 AM

Still not a shred of evidence I can see for that private getting money. "Follow the money" ... from where to whom etc? I see nothing.

Unlike the suckers who fell for the USA's intelligence for the invasion of Iraq I need to see more evidence not hype.

Assange has just shown the world documents and video, of which many have embarrassed the USA severely and revealed what grubs they are.

Here's one incident that made huge headlines but was covered up. They murdered journalists unarmed carrying cameras and shot up kids.

Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R

Ted · 27th April 2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

Still not a shred of evidence I can see for that private getting money. "Follow the money" ... from where to whom etc? I see nothing.

Unlike the suckers who fell for the USA's intelligence for the invasion of Iraq I need to see more evidence not hype.

Assange has just shown the world documents and video, of which many have embarrassed the USA severely and revealed what grubs they are.

Here's one incident that made huge headlines but was covered up. They murdered journalists unarmed carrying cameras and shot up kids.

Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R

I am confident that you will not find any information about money for information from one party to another just like I would not be able to nor care to inquire about your finances. Let's say that you have your sources and I have mine. I believe in the end Assange is a walking dead man and he knows it. His desire and ability to continue his campaign will be his undoing.
In time he will be stopped along with other people that are ready and willing to leave their mark in history, Assange thinks he is above it all and he will soon discover that his actions will be his end.

Eric Frei · 27th April 2011, 07:04 PM

Well, your sources vs what a court of law needs are very different things.

It is with the same fervour and patriotism that others fight America, so I suppose you are not alone .... just one eyed.

There's been some great documentaries recently about wars and more specifically Iraq. How badly they fared in the past and now, the depleted uranium ammo issue and the consequences to the children is horrendous. None of the doctors would speak up against the USA and the debacle they face as in the rebuilding program much of the medical system is supported/funded by USA controlled $'s and the doctors said if they spoke out about it funding would be pulled and more people would go without hospital care. Explain that to a 4 year old born after the war who just happened to be born the wrong side of a border.

Weapons of mass destruction lie to invade a country. I wonder if Iraq resigning more oil to China and Russia had more to do with it.

Ted · 27th April 2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

Well, your sources vs what a court of law needs are very different things.

It is with the same fervour and patriotism that others fight America, so I suppose you are not alone .... just one eyed.

There's been some great documentaries recently about wars and more specifically Iraq. How badly they fared in the past and now, the depleted uranium ammo issue and the consequences to the children is horrendous. None of the doctors would speak up against the USA and the debacle they face as in the rebuilding program much of the medical system is supported/funded by USA controlled $'s and the doctors said if they spoke out about it funding would be pulled and more people would go without hospital care. Explain that to a 4 year old born after the war who just happened to be born the wrong side of a border.

Weapons of mass destruction lie to invade a country. I wonder if Iraq resigning more oil to China and Russia had more to do with it.

Try patience as opposed to being against everything. I can only based my opinion on the facts presented to me. I realize you seem very certain about your sources of information and that is all well and good for you. I sleep very well every night knowing that without the US stepping in many Hell Holes covering various portions of the planet those people for the most part are far better off than before. Than again there are others such as your self that would rather blame the US and others for everything gone bad. Heres a clue: There is no perfect soultion to any thing. Keep complaining all you wish, at least you have a forum to project yourself on, I unlike you know of many countrys where open and free forums not only don't exist but if people did voice any opinion other than the goverments they would disappear or be at room temp.
I really don't believe you have any idea how good you have it, but than again you may learn someday, maybe. Freedom is not Free!

Eric Frei · 28th April 2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted

Try patience as opposed to being against everything. I can only based my opinion on the facts presented to me. I realize you seem very certain about your sources of information and that is all well and good for you. I sleep very well every night knowing that without the US stepping in many Hell Holes covering various portions of the planet those people for the most part are far better off than before. Than again there are others such as your self that would rather blame the US and others for everything gone bad. Heres a clue: There is no perfect soultion to any thing. Keep complaining all you wish, at least you have a forum to project yourself on, I unlike you know of many countrys where open and free forums not only don't exist but if people did voice any opinion other than the goverments they would disappear or be at room temp.
I really don't believe you have any idea how good you have it, but than again you may learn someday, maybe. Freedom is not Free!

What facts, you have brought none and when challenged blur the question to one of greater deeds and merits to make it a little easier to swallow the rhetoric, just what USA did when it lied about WMD.

Do not confuse facts, suspicions or scepticism with blame and complaining.

Assange is putting up documents, people read them and make their own mind up without the spin doctor. He doesn't steal them, they get leaked.

Assange had the skills to secure a server and protect the leaked documents from take downs etc. Everyone knew that leaks posted on regular sites would be taken down, hacked etc but now they have faith in Assange to host those documents. In retaliation USA labels him (treason espionage etc), campaign media against him, attempts to cripple him financially by stopping banks etc dealing with him .... bla bla bla the usual stuff. Gillard also fell for it but in reality he has broken no laws, well that's what Australia Federal Police found anyway.

So a man is persecuted for doing nothing wrong. Ethically then people argue he is doing the wrong thing and there's simply no law to bust him, so expect new laws just like the USA made up whilst they held Hicks in Guantanamo jail for years.

Blaming the US for everything that goes bad is simply your twist on this event, but I do blame the GFC fully on USA and it is the pinnacle of what an irresponsible government and corporate system is capable of.

24th December 2010, 08:24 AM	#2
Darrell Mcleod Mature tree Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Victoria Australia Posts: 242	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks and of course - freedom

24th December 2010, 08:32 AM	#3
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,641	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks If the documents are leaked to wikileaks and then they make them accessable to the general public i don't see how legally they can try him as he committed no theft, journalists do this every day, in every country so why are they targetting him? probably because he has embarrased the USA government in a big way, they have denied it but they put their best hackers on this to stop the leaks a bit like the little dutch boy with his finger in the dyke, you know it's going to go but you plug it all the same. I think they will find some jumped up charge to get him legally but it's not just him there are hundreds of people who work for this site and they certainly won't stop bringing the facts to the forefront. good luck wikileaks. __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

25th December 2010, 06:20 AM	#4
Jamie Myers Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 252	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks Very strange how he s suddenly public enemy No1, and wanted on sex crime charges. Conspiracy ???

25th December 2010, 08:40 AM	#6
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,059	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks I think you should be able to publish information freely available to the public. After all America is supposed to be the land of the free ! However I also feel that good judgement should used in exercising this right. When we have troops fighting a enemy that uses our technology against us and place our soldiers at risk of ambush you should withhold that piece of information until it is over and no longer poses a threat to our fighting men and women of the world. To me it would seem the Americans are using the rico laws to try and nail Assange. Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Arrest them on suspicion of whatever and prove it later ! __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

25th December 2010, 01:48 PM	#8
TreeCo Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 307	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks Ron Paul says it for me. Ron Paul: Shouldn't WikiLeaks Make Us Ask Whether We Are Getting Our $80 Billion Worth In Intelligence Gathering? __________________ Grow more vegetables!

27th December 2010, 08:47 PM	#11
derwoodii Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Melbourne Posts: 406	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks Interesting all this wikileaking but so far not one thread or line or a word to support any conspiracy theory's so far nup nuthin nix zip for 9/11 Moon fake GW deny climategate JFK area51and so on. Are the hidden men in black way too smart or more the likely don't exist. The fantasy that we are controlled by greater minds is falling apart as we sadly learn that they are just immature little men who can't pull off a simple collaborative act of foreign policy with out sookin by cable emails over split milk or gettin caught with their pants down. Suffer does the tax payer who give these fools a vote. Much is claimed that Governments or a Illuminati manipulates world events for personal gain or power. Hmm I dunno, these conspiracy theories eg Moon 911 GW Port Arthur fail in my mind as plausible being far to complicated to even plan let alone enact. E.g ever had a day that goes to your own plan. Try managing staff then imagine getting them to fake a moon landing, shoot 35 people in cold blood or wire up the world trade. Perhaps they can play around the edges gleaming what they can from event opportunities however I feel the big end conspiracies are just NQR. We're findin to lower our expectation of our government, secret service and foreign policy makers. Now it would be almost a joy if Wiki finds proof of a higher minds in control.

27th December 2010, 10:49 PM	#12
Victor Lindsay Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ? Posts: 441	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks Assange, himself, should have remand in the shadows. He now has the world gunning for him. Assange can not get enough money to protect him. As simple minded as ALL leaders are, they can create/fabricate many problems for Mr. Assange.

28th February 2011, 08:15 AM	#16
James Sayers Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: brisbane Posts: 84	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks he is no different to politicians they lie cheat and a few would of been up on sex charges to they are the sc## of the earth gst carbon tax flood levey they will be taxing air next

26th April 2011, 10:01 PM	#23
Ted Former Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Englewood, FL. USA Posts: 28	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks Here in the states we have many expressions. One of many is the "punishment fits the crime". Since 9-11-2001 the US has been at war against an enemy that does not play by any set of rules and will do any thing to kill you or your family. May be your ability to not understand is due to the fact that you never lossed or knew of any loss from such an event. I in both cases have. In time the information that was stolen by a trator will be the cause of many lives lost. This may not matter to and that is fine by me. In my opinion a firing squad for this person is not good enough. Any one else involved deserves the same since anyone supporting my enemy is my enemy.

27th April 2011, 12:11 AM	#24
Darrell Mcleod Mature tree Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Victoria Australia Posts: 242	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks I love the USA and those who live there – ‘punishment that fits the crime’ is an expression we here know and understand well - problem is our politicians probably do not and penalties should be tougher for many crimes 9 – 11 was a tragedy beyond all proportions That is not the point though This bloke probably will not get the firing squad or life imprisonment and all I was saying such a statement was a bit hysterical and perhaps even deliberately inflammatory That has nothing to do with my old mate when I was a kid who shared with me the horrors of the Korean War or why I went to the dawn service here for Anzac day yesterday morning or why I weep sometimes at the atrocity of war I think I do understand but wish to keep things rational

27th April 2011, 08:32 AM	#26
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,993	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks Still not a shred of evidence I can see for that private getting money. "Follow the money" ... from where to whom etc? I see nothing. Unlike the suckers who fell for the USA's intelligence for the invasion of Iraq I need to see more evidence not hype. Assange has just shown the world documents and video, of which many have embarrassed the USA severely and revealed what grubs they are. Here's one incident that made huge headlines but was covered up. They murdered journalists unarmed carrying cameras and shot up kids. Rated R - Collateral Murder - Rate R __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

27th April 2011, 07:04 PM	#28
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,993	Re: Julian Assange and Wikileaks Well, your sources vs what a court of law needs are very different things. It is with the same fervour and patriotism that others fight America, so I suppose you are not alone .... just one eyed. There's been some great documentaries recently about wars and more specifically Iraq. How badly they fared in the past and now, the depleted uranium ammo issue and the consequences to the children is horrendous. None of the doctors would speak up against the USA and the debacle they face as in the rebuilding program much of the medical system is supported/funded by USA controlled $'s and the doctors said if they spoke out about it funding would be pulled and more people would go without hospital care. Explain that to a 4 year old born after the war who just happened to be born the wrong side of a border. Weapons of mass destruction lie to invade a country. I wonder if Iraq resigning more oil to China and Russia had more to do with it. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

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