Burqa banned in Belgium!

sueann

Christianity is one thing that I can speak on with authority. I've done several years of theological studies, can read and write in ancient Greek and Hebrew and am considered by many to be a very astute theologian. I am quite able to see that a huge number if Christians do not behave like Christians and often mix up their cultural values with Christian values and we get some really warped stuff going on. There are also, unfortunately, preachers in it for the money or the fame who give the rest of us a bad name.

I can only imagine the time and patience one would need to attain such dizzy heights of study. Amazing, and huge kudos there Dov, totally impressive.

My english is not great but my math is up there, I left school at 15 though, and went to work at the local post office. My family was poor, shucks!! I'm self taught MYOB and Excel, I now work at home keeping the books for 11 small businesses around here, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. Hahaha. I always laugh at my own jokes, sorry. I prepare their gst for their accountants, keep records of their debits and credits, that sort of thing.

I am in no way, a religious person, I sort of think I would rather believe we came from monkeys than some sort of magican scooping me up from a pile of dust. I always get this vision of Merlin with a handful of dirt, waving his magic wand, saying a few abracabras, blowing on the dust in a theatrical fashion and bango! a woman!

Ok, so he blew on you guys first - he was just practising till he got it right!

dov

After having left school at 15 and self taught in your own business. I think some pretty major kudos are due there as well Sueann! I must admit that I'm not really into accounting myself... Drives me almost around the twist. Took me a month to get my head around assets, expenses and the other one, err, equity. Ye, that one.

I really wish though that someone would design some accounting software with a user interface that is NOT based on having about 15 different books open at once on your desk. Terrible design! Took me ages to understand it.

One of the regrets I have in life at the moment is that I don't seem to have enough time to study more. I don't know about dizzy heights, cos when you reach what was shrouded in the clouds before, you often find you've just reached a foothill... I try and keep up with my reading etc, (my sister gave me some Dostoyevsky for Christmas which was amazing,) but finding the time when I can let myself disappear into books or study or current affairs is difficult.

Eric Frei

Here's another example, from Egypt.

Sir Elton John banned from performing in Egypt because of his anti-religious views | Herald Sun

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dov

Even in fairly moderate Egypt, he'd probably cause a lot of anger. The pillow-biting groups that try and say how just about everyone in the Bible was homosexual have some sort of bizarre logic that escapes me and Elton should really tune into reality fm more often. Personally I find his views highly offensive as well and quite contrary to the Scriptures.

Eric Frei

Thing is we do not prohibit his right to perform because of it.

Just another typical example of the low tolerance of religious extremist nations.

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dov

Umm, Ekka. If you look at the original article, it's the local arts groups - the way out liberals in general - who are blocking him. I don't think the common people would want to listen to him.

Eric Frei

It would be illegal here for a union to do that also.

Such is backward land!

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dov

The ACTU tried barring the Springboks from touring Australia in the early 70's I think. Similar things have happened here.

Eric Frei

Comparing 1970's to now is a huge difference.

Unions have been stripped of a lot of power, equal and human rights make allowances for all people regardless of relion or sexual preference.

2010 now, but not for Egypt.

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Done it

Things have changed a lot since the 70's, they even banned Frank Sinatra in Melbourne back then. Frank Sinatra & Bob Hawke | The Monthly

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dov

Hahaha!!! Love the pic.

I'm reading a biography of Bob Hawke at the moment. It's amazing how much the political landscape of Australia has changed.

Eric Frei

He was a piss head, didn't he hold the record for skulling a yard glass or something?

I don't forget the bloke, imagine an ex union leader getting into power then what does he do? Puts a wage freeze on for 1 year, and at the end of it extends it another year. Bigot!

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dov

As leader of the ACTU he stopped a huge number of strikes. Apparently a great mediator. He still holds the record for skulling a yard glass at Oxford, set in 1962. Gave up drinking when he entered parliament. He entered Parliament as leader of the Labour party and became Prime Minister straight after that. Seems he had the support of a lot of Australians and still holds the record for most preferred in a poll. He certainly did make a huge change to our nation. He was bloody arrogant though.

windthrown

Well, to me that just means you are an authority on bullshit. See, what you call organized religion is a crock of shit in my book. The bible is a book of myths. I do not see where one religion is any more valid than another, or where one sect of Christianity is any more valid than another. They all blend from early Judaism through modern Mormonism. I have some experience in this as well. My step-mother was a Catholic nun (took all her vows and got an exit from the chursh from the then-Pope himself to go to nursing school and be a field nurse in Korea). My father was a devout Presbyterian choir master. My step brother is a Lutheran minister somewhere in the southern US. He has a PhD in theology. My sister-in-law is a Mormon Temple Walker. They are/were all pretty high and mighty in their respective churches, but when my step brother and step mother get together, they re-live the bloody reformation! Drove my father to drink and an early grave.

Ah, I see that you are a self-proclaimed expert in American poverty now too. How quaint. You assert that the standard of living is far lower here than in Asia, even in your godless China. Perhaps you can explain to me then why there are like, 800 million Chinese in poverty living outside the special economic zones, and 300 million or so living inside the special economic zones? The US population is 300 million... slightly less than 800 million.

windthrown

Disneyland style Hamas brainwashing for the kiddies!

dov

While you are entitled to hold you opinion, my ability to speak on the subject stems from several years of formal and personal study. Your 'authority' seems to be that in your life you have known people who, though imperfect as we all are, were trying to seek after and follow God. This is a very strange assertion to say the least! Isn't that the same as saying, "I'm an expert in Arboriculture, because I know several tree loppers?" Windthrown, you are a very intelligent man, but that argument really does not work.

Also, having read over what I wrote, I really cannot find the place where I inferred that the standard of living in the USA is lower than in some enormous amorphous place called Asia. Please if you are insisting on debating me, at least skip the red herrings and debate what I have actually said.

sueann

Politics and religion are both such fascinating subjects, also very close to the bone subjects, so people rarely agree on either of them.

I have problems with gays as I know what they do and it just bothers me.
I have even more problems with bi people as they just don't really care as long as it's warm I guess.

I might go find some therapy or something. Nah, I just live with my weirdo faults and keep quiet about it usually.

I know a leso and her partner who has had 2 babies (turkey basting) to the partners brother. The children's father is also their uncle? or something. I don't know, it all just worries me. But I don't sit up nights thinking about it and I'm still her friend since school, and guess I always will be.

I might not like lots of things some of my friends do, but I just let it go over my head in general.

David Glen

Keep searching - Truth exists. You may find it in the most unlikely place.

dov

Ye, I don't actually like to debate religion at all in forums like this as it generally degrades into arguments and I HATE to argue about religion full stop. It's a pointless exercise. A debate is like the sport of fencing, where each person can be 'sharpened' by the other. Arguments are like people hitting bricks together. Sometimes they clear the air of tension, but that's about all they are good for.

windthrown

Problem being here DOV, it that you put forward nebulous concepts that cannot be empirically proven. Like religion. Religion is a belief, and that is it. Being an "expert" or an 'authority' in beliefs that cannot be proven one way or another is meaningless. Saying that your "Christian values" are more valid or having higher authority than any other "Christian values" is ludicrous. Point in case is your statment: "USA I cannot abide, it is so opposed to any true Christian or humanitarian values." As for humanitarian values, anything that humans do and think are 'values', so again that is a meaningless statement, other than just to slam the US again, which is obviously your true bias.

I find it amusing that you hold China in such high regard. Do you believe that the invasion of Tibet and complete destruction of that nation (and religion) was a humanitarian event? Tibet was a sovereign nation from 1912 to 1950 when China invaded it, BTW. It was not a part of China in 1950 as you say above. Do you understand what is happening in China with development, the creation of the special economic zones, and the rampant destruction of habitat and environment there? In this state, half (yes HALF) the mercury levels in Oregon rivers is due to drift from China. The saying is that when it rains in Beijing, it rains dirt. I have been supporting engineers and business in China as an engineer for about 25 years now. While that does not make me an expert, I will put it this way: I have met the enemy, and he is not eight feet tall. The China bubble cannot be sustained.

But hey, keep up the US bashing and holding up the Chinese communist flag. Its amusing, being the elephant in the room here. The US economy remains the largest in the world. The EU is about the same size. China is 1/3 the size of the US or EU in GDP. How that makes China the dominant global economic power is a mystery to me, and your statement regarding China: "It's already the only real economic world power." You are missing Europe and America there, bud.

Eric Frei

On this news page there's a poll here in Oz.

Community leaders split over controversial call to ban burqas in public | Herald Sun

So far almost 90% support the ban.

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windthrown

Even some Muslim groups support banning the burqa and what we commonly mistake for the burqa here, the niqab. The niqab was what I saw that woman wearing in the VW drinking the Taco Bell soda. My bad! They want them banned just the same, however.

CBC News - Canada - Muslim group calls for burka ban

She looks really hot in that outfit. I cannot wait for the sequel: Niqab Girls Gone Wild!

windthrown

My view on this in a nutshell:

Jeff Darby

Mr Connell puts up a strong opinion about the burqa , what say you girls ?

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sueann

There was an armed holdup in Melbourne yesterday by someone in a burka, I heard in on the radio, when I googled the story I was surprised that there have been quite a few robberies of this nature. All over the world.

http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=burka+clad+robbery+in+melbourne
WT, that guy in the utube clip is quite an interesting bloke. With regard to his comments about what is the feminist movement is doing about all this - I'm not a feminist as such, but I think perhaps they don't say too much is because they would be fighting the fact with other women, ie. the muslim women who say they want to wear that sort of gear. I guess it's a bit different to burning your bra or getting you out of the kitchen.

Speaking for myself, I love my pretty bra's and my kitchen, it's a damn nice kitchen and I feed my family from it. I like cooking and don't care about how much mess I make as I just shove everything in the dishwasher anyway.

I agree with that bloke in the utube clip that the men should be made to wear the stupid burka instead, they wouldn't be able to see a thing and their women would be safe. Mobile tents he said hahaha!!

If push comes to shove Jayd, and if I had to vote on it, I think it should be banned.

I do worry about the freedom thing, their right to wear whatever, but that's a small consideration in comparison to the bigger picture.

Done it

That robbery was in Sydney. Police hunt Sydney burka bandit - Yahoo!7 News

A few Burqas in South and Southwest Sydney.

windthrown

Burqa crime seems to be all the rage in Oz lately.

Eric Frei

If caught I bet the burqa wearing perp prefers the western laws though!

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Done it

Tree work must be a bit quiet on the south side of Sydney at the moment. You've got mexicans and we have xxx and his cousins.

jmcg.insight.gardens

I missed this thread, Landcare is keeping me too busy, just caught up with it.

I could do with one of those, seems I have no end of trouble with overweight women hating me, I could have less problems...........

But seriously I suppose you have to go back in history first to make a decision, back to where it all started. From what I've read Mohamed the Prophet had an argument with his wife and shortly afterward decreed that all women were to cover themselves. Make of that what you will. Yes I've read the Koran, and I've read the bible, there are quite a few versions of those.

One of the things I missed so much when living overseas was the way Aussie men treat their woman in general so well, as equals, different(obviously there are differences,aren't they great) and still appreciate to this day how well men treat me here, I can eat with them, I can party with them (I don't have to be in a different room, or at home as a good woman should be) and as a workmate I can at times be treated with respect, I can go to school and I can be good friends with them............

Oh so refreshing to my experiences overseas. Australian men are not in general chauvinistic as might be presumed by people overseas or some people here, oh no, their great. Truly.

Should the Burka be banned>? well yes I'd like to see it banned, purely from a few standpoints.

It can be used by bad people to perform bad acts eg. terrorist attacks, they will happen here eventually I suppose, they have shut a few of them down already.

The burka alienates people from the person wearing it by it's appearance. It's hard to smile at someone in a burka. Mind you I think the veil is quite pretty and I find them no different from the Indian Sari or a scarf.

Women should not have to wear them to be subserviant to their husbands, nor to prove they are good muslims, they have the veil.

I wouldnt be surprised if the burka will soon be banned here as racist.

I have nothing against any religion, the greatest gardens have been designed by both Muslims (just look at Alahambra) and Christians and Buddists and Shintoists. Diversity is a good thing if it's used in the right way.

I don't give a fork what religion someone is, it's who they are inside that counts.