Aboriginal law vs white mans law

Eric Frei · 6th January 2012, 07:49 AM

Their law is 40,000 years old and they want to dish it out rather than see white man's law mock them.

Angry crowd tried to spear man over death of girl, 8 - The West Australian

Quote:

Angry crowd tried to spear man over death of girl, 8

STEVE PENNELLS, WILUNA, The West Australian Updated January 6, 2012, 2:45 am

An angry crowd which had gathered at Warburton airstrip on Tuesday night - forcing a police plane to abort its landing - were demanding to spear the man inside.

Glen Cooke, a Warburton elder and "grandfather" to the young girl who died after four days lost in the desert with the 38-year-old man, said yesterday police should have allowed tribal justice to take place.

"They wanted to get him before the police took him," he said.

"The people were waiting at the airstrip and were going to get him."

About 150 people threw rocks at the aircraft as it landed at Warburton, forcing the crew to take off again and divert to Kalgoorlie.

Mr Cooke said the community had wanted to spear and bash Augustine Winter Miller - the man who took the girl on the hunting trip and was being airlifted for medical treatment - and would have then allowed the police to take him to be dealt with through "white man's law".

"I think it's wrong the police taking that fellow to the court without the people dealing (with him)," Mr Cooke said.

"Because our law of dealing with troublemakers. We deal with them.

"And our law has been going on for 40,000 years. I'm a tribal man and I still have my tradition and it should have been done before the police took him into custody.

"I see a lot of men who are sent away to jail for a serious offence and they do their time and they come out with their chests up and they don't get dealt with, they just walk through the community and nothing happens."

Mr Miller was severely dehydrated when he was found by rescuers with the eight-year-old girl, who is not named for cultural reasons, on a bush track.

A search for the pair from the remote Aboriginal community of Tjirrkarli, about 700km north-east of Kalgoorlie, was launched on New Year's Day.

Police and a nurse from Warburton, about 180km from Tjirrkarli, tried to resuscitate the badly dehydrated girl, who weighed only 20kg, for more than an hour before she died, according to Insp. Bill Munnee.

Mr Miller has not been charged over the girl's death.

But anger and blame have grown as the news, followed by grief, slowly rippled through desert Aboriginal communities to relatives scattered in Kalgoorlie, Leonora, Wiluna and Laverton.

Mr Cooke was in Leonora when he found out on Wednesday afternoon.

He is an uncle to the girl's mother, Ann-Marie Lane, and said he was a grandfather to the "happy, carefree" young girl whom he last saw a few months ago near Warburton.

His niece came through town on Wednesday on her way back to Warburton from Kalgoorlie's Ninga Mia community to see him and to grieve.

"In the traditional way, we didn't say anything," Mr Cooke said.

"We just walked up, put our arm around and we cried to one another.

"I knew she had lost her daughter. She came and sat down next to me and we cried."

Mr Cooke, who lives in Wiluna, said he knew Mr Miller from the community and knew he had been jailed for a child sex offence.

But he didn't know the girl he called his granddaughter had been put in Mr Miller's care.

"No, I didn't know that until I heard the news," Mr Cooke said.

"With his background, I'm not comfortable. It wasn't right.

"If I was in Warburton and had seen that man with my granddaughter, I would have said no because I know that man very well."

He said he didn't know why Ms Lane's friend - whom she had asked to look after the girl - allowed her to go away with him.

"This is very serious. It is a life that was taken away from our community," he said.

An emotional Mr Cooke said yesterday he blamed the justice system, for releasing Mr Miller, and criticised the search efforts, saying there should have been a fully-equipped ambulance with the rescue convoy.

"When they found her, they put my granddaughter in the back of the van and she was taken in to Warburton hospital but she passed away," he said.

"It should have been an ambulance that went out on that search because the ambulance has everything in that vehicle.
"If there was, I think my granddaughter would have been alive today."

Apocalypsse · 6th January 2012, 03:55 PM

Aboriginal law, just like Sharia law has no place in this country. I know the system doesn't work properly but when we start allowing one group to use their own law its all over. I don't like how lenient some of our laws/courts can be, but I would rather have that then 100 different laws for 100 different ethnic/religious groups.

Jeff Darby · 6th January 2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypsse

Aboriginal law, just like Sharia law has no place in this country. I know the system doesn't work properly but when we start allowing one group to use their own law its all over. I don't like how lenient some of our laws/courts can be, but I would rather have that then 100 different laws for 100 different ethnic/religious groups.

This is a hard one to vote on ? Do we let the indigenous folk follow their own laws or not ? or are they just like the white man here in Australia with another countries laws placed on us by virtue of they laid claim to the land although both races travelled here, one by sea the other by land mass back in the ancient times before the land mass separated.

Do the powers that be let the aboriginal people still living tribal life, their original lifestyle practice tribal law. On one hand I say yes and on the other hand I think this will only leed to an uncivilised Australia. As much as we do not like having to abide by laws where would we be with out them?

Shootings, knifing, people being speared...bashed to a pulp ? fact is we need law albeit failing in certain circumstances, over all it lets us all walk down the street with reasonable safety. imo Equal rights equal laws. 40.000 years of law does not belong in memories it should be documented and presented properly to the powers that be then the aboriginals would indeed have a case to exercise there own laws with the true tribal members, however it has not got a place in suburbia because the message to the people would be interpreted as vigilante law.imo

Drouin Tree Service · 6th January 2012, 05:38 PM

There would be alot of this "law"going on....

MrDiesel · 6th January 2012, 06:14 PM

I agree 100% with Apocalypsse,

Irrespective of culture i think its important that the recognized law is followed. It has the potential to be a real fiery issue.

Jeff Darby · 6th January 2012, 06:59 PM

Respect for all opinions...

Tony Knight · 6th January 2012, 10:14 PM

Whilst I wouldn't shed a tear if this mongrel stopped breathing I have to agree with Apocalypsse. Any land can only be ruled under one law for all. Its one of the foundations of equality or our strive for it.

Cheers

Tony

Eric Frei · 7th January 2012, 06:46 AM

What was interesting is that the detailed circumstances for the young girls death wasn't there.

I interpreted the article as Mr Miller, a previous child sex offender and of dubious character, was given custody of an 8 year old girl. He took that girl on an inappropriate hunting trip which resulted in the girls death and his near death.

For this the elders want to spear and flog him, then still breathing hand him over to the cops so he can go to hospital for some real wounds.

Now, why would anyone take an 8 year old girl on a hunting trip in the desert in mid summer, especially an aboriginal who should know the land better?

If this Miller gets off with nothing then authorities have a lot to answer for.
I have uploaded an interesting paper on Aboriginal Law and it's comparison to Australian Law.

Quote:

Physical punishments

Physical punishments that involve beatings or spearing
(often referred to as ‘payback’) are perhaps the most
well-known and controversial aspects of Aboriginal
customary law. The formal sanction of spearing in the
thigh has been used for offences as diverse as murder,
adultery, elopement and personal injury. The process
may involve the recipient standing quietly and ‘offering
no resistance’ while the aggrieved person, or one of
their kin, throws the spear.64 Berndt and Berndt
describe various examples of ritualised spearing duels.
The common elements are the involvement of kin and
the role of the Elders to ensure that there is a degree
of restraint by opposing parties. The matter would
generally be resolved once the offender had been
speared in the thigh or blood had been drawn.65
Examples of physical punishments show that it is not
always the case that serious injury is intended. One
example from the Kimberley shows that while
numerous people were involved in throwing
boomerangs, digging sticks and blunted spears, all those
involved ‘knew that none of the implements would be
thrown with such force or accuracy as to maim or
permanently harm those being punished’.66 An Aboriginal
woman explained a punishment for the deaths of two
men in a car accident in the following way:

Everyone is [going to] fight together so those men
can go free … the relations of the people who were
finished—the brothers and sisters—are going to fight
those men … hit them with boomerangs and sticks so
they will fall down and cry and be sorry for what
happened … they will be free to walk around … Noone
will be thinking about that anymore … no-one will
be worrying for that anymore.67

In relation to physical punishments it has been said
that the primary purpose is to resolve the grievance
and restore balance between the disputants.68 As
Toohey suggests ‘the idea is to give the family of the
injured person satisfaction and thereby bring the matter
to an end’ and because it occurs in public everyone
knows that the matter has been finalised.69 The
continuing use of physical punishments in contemporary
Aboriginal society is a major source of conflict with
Australian law.70

I agree that one law, Australian law should prevail however it is interesting to really know what the aboriginals had in mind.

Darrell Mcleod · 7th January 2012, 09:10 AM

Yeah and one wonders sometimes at the effectiveness of our laws; paedophiles being a case in point

Derryn Hinch down here as an example was locked up for exposing them

Jeff Darby · 7th January 2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell Mcleod

Yeah and one wonders sometimes at the effectiveness of our laws; paedophiles being a case in point

Derryn Hinch down here as an example was locked up for exposing them

and so he should!! I will expose any paedophile brought to my attention...dirty low life these types are and there in all walks of life...I spit on them praying on the innocent...

derwoodii · 14th January 2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Aboriginal law, just like Sharia law has no place in this country. I know the system doesn't work properly but when we start allowing one group to use their own law its all over. I don't like how lenient some of our laws/courts can be, but I would rather have that then 100 different laws for 100 different ethnic/religious groups.

so true, sure our legal system is NQR, but its the best in the world and constantly trying to improve while not over stepping society's expectations.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so

Robert A. Heinlein

6th January 2012, 03:55 PM	#2
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Re: Aboriginal law vs white mans law Aboriginal law, just like Sharia law has no place in this country. I know the system doesn't work properly but when we start allowing one group to use their own law its all over. I don't like how lenient some of our laws/courts can be, but I would rather have that then 100 different laws for 100 different ethnic/religious groups.

6th January 2012, 05:38 PM	#4
Drouin Tree Service Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,727	Re: Aboriginal law vs white mans law There would be alot of this "law"going on.... __________________ Drouin Tree Services \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland \| Landclearing Melbourne

6th January 2012, 06:14 PM	#5
MrDiesel Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: here Posts: 192	Re: Aboriginal law vs white mans law I agree 100% with Apocalypsse, Irrespective of culture i think its important that the recognized law is followed. It has the potential to be a real fiery issue.

6th January 2012, 06:59 PM	#6
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,059	Re: Aboriginal law vs white mans law Respect for all opinions... __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

6th January 2012, 10:14 PM	#7
Tony Knight Mature tree Join Date: May 2011 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 309	Re: Aboriginal law vs white mans law Whilst I wouldn't shed a tear if this mongrel stopped breathing I have to agree with Apocalypsse. Any land can only be ruled under one law for all. Its one of the foundations of equality or our strive for it. Cheers Tony

7th January 2012, 09:10 AM	#9
Darrell Mcleod Mature tree Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Victoria Australia Posts: 242	Re: Aboriginal law vs white mans law Yeah and one wonders sometimes at the effectiveness of our laws; paedophiles being a case in point Derryn Hinch down here as an example was locked up for exposing them

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