Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia

Ekka · 29th January 2007, 02:46 PM

Can be helpful and lists some species to avoid.

azrael · 20th December 2007, 03:10 AM

This Sydney Water leaflet has a useful list of the trees to AVOID planting near sewers. It gives a damage rating for each species.

TreeDimensional · 23rd December 2007, 09:39 AM

Referance materialFrom reading the pdf in Ekka's post, it didn't take long for me to realize that the tree again are gettin' the blame for the shortcomings of man. The tree roots DO effect sewer blockages, however in our part of the world sewer pipes have to be buried BELOW the frost line, and that would be at least 10' deep.

I don't pretend to know how deep Melborne burys their sewer line, but I would bet that the sewer lines that are blocked are old CLAY lines, which are perhaps fractured OR have leaky seals at joints. A couple years ago I attended a conferance where Drs. Kim Coder and Ed Gilman were speaking to the issues of TREES AND INFRASTRUCTURE. The one point that Dr. Coder made was that as a rule a tree will NOT send a root into soil that doesn't have at least 10% oxygen in it. This being said,if a sewer line fails, we have two things that a tree needs to survive, oxygen and moisture.

We have removed LARGE poplars that had declined to near total death, from nitrate poisioning from a septic tank. The very first cut to live tissue immediatley woke up my sense of smell. I believe the trees that are the worst vialator of sewer lines are species that are NOT water thrifty (Drought tolerant). In Canada the BIG three would be Poplar, WIllow and Birch.

I am NOT a tree hugger, but I am getting a little ticked off at City managers blaming the trees when in fact it is peoples fault for failing to think through all the possible senarios to the conflict between man and nature. I am going to attach a link to Dr. Gilmans site, where he is conducting an experiment on sidewalks, they are in the Power Point section. Dr. Gilman has my utmost respect for making his work available to the general public. The link is Pruning - Landscape plants - Edward F. Gilman - UF/IFAS

Sean Freeman · 23rd December 2007, 01:36 PM

I agree 100% TreeDimensional, Dr Ed Gilmans willingness to share his understanding about how when and where to prune is a lesson to all Arb people, its about getting the best outcomes for the tree and people in the long term. An Illustrated Guide to Pruning should be comulsary reading for all budding CA's.

When it comes to the growth patterns of tree roots unfortunately in many of our super compacted soils the action of trenching tends to produce a preferred growing medium compared to the surrounding profiles, and the pipes make excellent anchorage for trees....but I also have seen, read and heard trees repeatedly being singled out when the evidence for their role in the damage to built infrastructure is sketchy at best.

mdvaden · 24th December 2007, 10:38 AM

In our cities, the greater number of sewer lines are not the fewer larger municipal ones, but the smaller ones routed from residences toward the street area. And most of those are not very deep.

Even if they are "air-tight" glued at the seams, they do get crushed or displaced to the end of breaking sometimes.

olyman · 26th December 2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdvaden

In our cities, the greater number of sewer lines are not the fewer larger municipal ones, but the smaller ones routed from residences toward the street area. And most of those are not very deep.

Even if they are "air-tight" glued at the seams, they do get crushed or displaced to the end of breaking sometimes.

i can attest to this--as i have a LARGE norway maple in my front yard--and the old hub clay sewer lines are out there to the street---guess what--the tree roots like to plug it---not so much in a moist year--but dry!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i cleaned it out three times last year!!!!!!!!! but im not cutting the tree down--as direct sunlight stays off my house till 3 in the afternoon--------

TreeDimensional · 26th December 2007, 06:25 PM

Yup, with rising costs of electricity, it might be cheaper to pay the rotorooter guy. In the long haul it is still cheaper to maintain an old sewer line (roto=root) than it would be to bore in a new line under the existing tree.

Ekka · 27th December 2007, 05:18 AM

You can internal line them too you know, very effective.

Nu Flow Australia, Cured in place pipe lining, Trenchless pipe repairs. watch the video

olyman · 27th December 2007, 06:36 AM

ekka----the link to nuflow wont post----

olyman · 27th December 2007, 07:23 AM

ekka---i finally got it to link--anywho--wonder if theres someone in the states doing this???

Ekka · 27th December 2007, 01:51 PM

Search pipe relining on google

Trouble is when I search it gives me all the aussie ones coz of my IP address. You'll get different results over there.

23rd December 2007, 09:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia Referance materialFrom reading the pdf in Ekka's post, it didn't take long for me to realize that the tree again are gettin' the blame for the shortcomings of man. The tree roots DO effect sewer blockages, however in our part of the world sewer pipes have to be buried BELOW the frost line, and that would be at least 10' deep. I don't pretend to know how deep Melborne burys their sewer line, but I would bet that the sewer lines that are blocked are old CLAY lines, which are perhaps fractured OR have leaky seals at joints. A couple years ago I attended a conferance where Drs. Kim Coder and Ed Gilman were speaking to the issues of TREES AND INFRASTRUCTURE. The one point that Dr. Coder made was that as a rule a tree will NOT send a root into soil that doesn't have at least 10% oxygen in it. This being said,if a sewer line fails, we have two things that a tree needs to survive, oxygen and moisture. We have removed LARGE poplars that had declined to near total death, from nitrate poisioning from a septic tank. The very first cut to live tissue immediatley woke up my sense of smell. I believe the trees that are the worst vialator of sewer lines are species that are NOT water thrifty (Drought tolerant). In Canada the BIG three would be Poplar, WIllow and Birch. I am NOT a tree hugger, but I am getting a little ticked off at City managers blaming the trees when in fact it is peoples fault for failing to think through all the possible senarios to the conflict between man and nature. I am going to attach a link to Dr. Gilmans site, where he is conducting an experiment on sidewalks, they are in the Power Point section. Dr. Gilman has my utmost respect for making his work available to the general public. The link is Pruning - Landscape plants - Edward F. Gilman - UF/IFAS __________________ West Central Saskatchewan ISA Certified Arborist Last edited by TreeDimensional : 23rd December 2007 at 09:47 AM. Reason: referance material

23rd December 2007, 01:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia I agree 100% TreeDimensional, Dr Ed Gilmans willingness to share his understanding about how when and where to prune is a lesson to all Arb people, its about getting the best outcomes for the tree and people in the long term. An Illustrated Guide to Pruning should be comulsary reading for all budding CA's. When it comes to the growth patterns of tree roots unfortunately in many of our super compacted soils the action of trenching tends to produce a preferred growing medium compared to the surrounding profiles, and the pipes make excellent anchorage for trees....but I also have seen, read and heard trees repeatedly being singled out when the evidence for their role in the damage to built infrastructure is sketchy at best. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

24th December 2007, 10:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
mdvaden Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 578	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia In our cities, the greater number of sewer lines are not the fewer larger municipal ones, but the smaller ones routed from residences toward the street area. And most of those are not very deep. Even if they are "air-tight" glued at the seams, they do get crushed or displaced to the end of breaking sometimes. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

26th December 2007, 06:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia Yup, with rising costs of electricity, it might be cheaper to pay the rotorooter guy. In the long haul it is still cheaper to maintain an old sewer line (roto=root) than it would be to bore in a new line under the existing tree. __________________ West Central Saskatchewan ISA Certified Arborist

27th December 2007, 05:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia You can internal line them too you know, very effective. Nu Flow Australia, Cured in place pipe lining, Trenchless pipe repairs. watch the video __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

27th December 2007, 06:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
olyman Gettin' motoring Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: iowa--usa Posts: 36	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia ekka----the link to nuflow wont post----

27th December 2007, 07:23 AM	#10 (permalink)
olyman Gettin' motoring Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: iowa--usa Posts: 36	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia ekka---i finally got it to link--anywho--wonder if theres someone in the states doing this???

27th December 2007, 01:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Tree roots and pipes by SE Water Australia Search pipe relining on google Trouble is when I search it gives me all the aussie ones coz of my IP address. You'll get different results over there. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

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