risk

treeseer · 27th August 2008, 07:47 PM

new paper on risk

http://www.treeworks.co.uk/downloads..._NF_060907.pdf

Robert STAVROU · 27th August 2008, 08:04 PM

Thanks, have always found Fay's work rather interesting. His concept of an Environmental Arborist is an intrigue.

Sean Freeman · 27th August 2008, 09:06 PM

It is an excellent paper presenting perfectly the problems we face as a profession trying to balance perceptions with reality in risk...and some ways to overcome those problems....it is a real shame that the BSI did not read this and other papers before heading down the deadend that the draft tree assessment BS is IMO.

treeseer · 29th August 2008, 04:10 PM

Yes Neville has a good command of the subject and a well-reasoned approach. In writing the BMP in the USA the committee may narrow its work to a comprehensive look at tree inspection. The views on risk were quite disparate; many here still proclaim that Defect = Hazard = Removal so a saner approach gets drowned out by liability fearmongering.

You mentioned reality vs. perception--I suppose you could say that the perceptions were unresolvable at present, so the ISA seems willing to focus on the reality right now. Trying to nail down the inspection process seems the best way to determine that reality, and hopefully the perceptions will be more guided by facts than fears as a result.

I forgot--is there a draft of the BSI (I assume aussie) about?

Sean Freeman · 29th August 2008, 05:05 PM

The BSI is the British Standards Institute, and the draft is BS 8516 Recommendations for Tree Safety Inspections...and yes it really is BS! You can get to it quickly through the Arboricultural Information Exchange website.

treeseer · 29th August 2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

You can get to it quickly through the Arboricultural Information Exchange website.

I found it here Quantified Tree Risk Assessment
comment period is over, and they don't post comments beyond the UK so...

I did not find it here AIE. Arboricultural Information Exchange.

Sean Freeman · 29th August 2008, 07:39 PM

Thats odd its on their front page ...anyway...read Mikes letter at QTRA for one the best written and thought through rebuttles of all the rubbish this BS represents...a truely great letter

treeseer · 29th August 2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

Thats odd its on their front page ...

oops, musta blinked. still don't see it.

Quote:

anyway...read Mikes letter at QTRA for one the best written and thought through rebuttles of all the rubbish this BS represents...a truely great letter

And how will that letter affect the process? How open are the great minds working on that?

Sean Freeman · 29th August 2008, 10:48 PM

Mike represents a very significant number of Arbs in the UK and their attitude to the total mess this BS has been...as to how it will affect the outcome of the BSI well that only time will tell the BS itself is unlikely to garner widespread support because of its gross and obvious failings..even the other Govt bodies that advise on risk have questioned or contradicted the BSI and its approach.

Ekka · 30th August 2008, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

The BSI is the British Standards Institute, and the draft is BS 8516 Recommendations for Tree Safety Inspections...and yes it really is BS! You can get to it quickly through the Arboricultural Information Exchange website.

You can also get it quickly here now, it's attached below.

Sean Freeman · 30th August 2008, 06:12 AM

Yes but I wouldn't bother printing it off unless you need toilet paper.

Ekka · 30th August 2008, 07:00 AM

Well, it's like a document at the idea stage, that's all.

But it could lead to better things.

I do get the feeling you really dont like it though Sean.

treeseer · 30th August 2008, 07:40 AM

Hey I need a favor--can you post this here, so I can send US consultants here to retrieve it?

Sean Freeman · 30th August 2008, 08:20 AM

Its poorly concieved and poorly composed and so full of errors and faults to be worse than useless.

Ekka · 30th August 2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

Hey I need a favor--can you post this here, so I can send US consultants here to retrieve it?

Hmmm, now you cheeky bugger, what are you up to, a reversal eh. Well, looks like you posted it but in this thread?

treeseer · 30th August 2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Well, looks like you posted it but in this thread?

o okay i will just start a new thread with it then

Ekka · 30th August 2008, 03:49 PM

You did but we had one already going here

Trichoderma | wound dressing | wound painting | Biological controls

So I moved your post to it.

27th August 2008, 07:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
treeseer Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 889	risk new paper on risk http://www.treeworks.co.uk/downloads..._NF_060907.pdf __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care

27th August 2008, 08:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Robert STAVROU Sappling Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 26	Re: risk Thanks, have always found Fay's work rather interesting. His concept of an Environmental Arborist is an intrigue.

27th August 2008, 09:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	Re: risk It is an excellent paper presenting perfectly the problems we face as a profession trying to balance perceptions with reality in risk...and some ways to overcome those problems....it is a real shame that the BSI did not read this and other papers before heading down the deadend that the draft tree assessment BS is IMO. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

29th August 2008, 04:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
treeseer Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 889	Re: risk Yes Neville has a good command of the subject and a well-reasoned approach. In writing the BMP in the USA the committee may narrow its work to a comprehensive look at tree inspection. The views on risk were quite disparate; many here still proclaim that Defect = Hazard = Removal so a saner approach gets drowned out by liability fearmongering. You mentioned reality vs. perception--I suppose you could say that the perceptions were unresolvable at present, so the ISA seems willing to focus on the reality right now. Trying to nail down the inspection process seems the best way to determine that reality, and hopefully the perceptions will be more guided by facts than fears as a result. I forgot--is there a draft of the BSI (I assume aussie) about? __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care Last edited by treeseer : 29th August 2008 at 05:55 PM.

29th August 2008, 05:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	Re: risk The BSI is the British Standards Institute, and the draft is BS 8516 Recommendations for Tree Safety Inspections...and yes it really is BS! You can get to it quickly through the Arboricultural Information Exchange website. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

29th August 2008, 07:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	Re: risk Thats odd its on their front page ...anyway...read Mikes letter at QTRA for one the best written and thought through rebuttles of all the rubbish this BS represents...a truely great letter __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

29th August 2008, 10:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	Re: risk Mike represents a very significant number of Arbs in the UK and their attitude to the total mess this BS has been...as to how it will affect the outcome of the BSI well that only time will tell the BS itself is unlikely to garner widespread support because of its gross and obvious failings..even the other Govt bodies that advise on risk have questioned or contradicted the BSI and its approach. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

30th August 2008, 06:12 AM	#11 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	Re: risk Yes but I wouldn't bother printing it off unless you need toilet paper. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

30th August 2008, 07:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	Re: risk Well, it's like a document at the idea stage, that's all. But it could lead to better things. I do get the feeling you really dont like it though Sean. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

30th August 2008, 08:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	Re: risk Its poorly concieved and poorly composed and so full of errors and faults to be worse than useless. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

30th August 2008, 03:49 PM	#17 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	Re: risk You did but we had one already going here Trichoderma \| wound dressing \| wound painting \| Biological controls So I moved your post to it. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors