Photosynthesis, transpiration and photorespiration

Ekka · 10th February 2007, 02:28 AM

Yep, all 3 play a part in a trees survival. They do put Co2 back into the atmosphere as well ... just happens they put more o2 so they're beneficial.

Here's a great site on it.

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/...hotosynthesis?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0112035906.htm

Quote:

Trees have long been known to lift water from the soil to great heights using a principle called hydraulic lift, with energy supplied by evaporation of water from leaf openings called stomata. Twenty years ago, however, some small plants were found to do more than lift water from the soil to the leaves - they also lifted deep water with their tap root and deposited it in shallow soil for use at a later time, and reversed the process during the rainy season to push water into storage deep underground. Dawson discovered in 1990 that trees do this, too, and to date, so-called hydraulic redistribution has been found in some 60 separate deeply rooted plant species.

http://www.answers.com/topic/photorespiration
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0723093305.htm

Tim Craig · 10th April 2007, 03:20 PM

I sometimes tell the client that the reason they don't want to top the tree is that they will lose far too much photosynthetic space. Then the tree will either die or try to replace the lost foliage with a burst of epicormic growth(Tilia, Salix species etc)which will look like a toilet brush.

They tend to re-think there original idea of cutting the tree in half.

Well, some of them do.

sharpend · 12th August 2007, 11:56 AM

Ijust took EKKA's sugg. and checked out the science daily article. Truth be told I've never realized there was such a thing as "hydralic redistribution". But it does make perfect sense.But this is beside the point on my mind. Forgive my rambling, but the thing most on my mind is the deforestation and subsequent warming trends that result from wanton destruction of trees habitat and open spaces.I just recently caught a symposium hosted by Al Gore on the effects and causes of global warming.It probly alarmed me more than anything I'd seen on the tube.GGreat presentation. Don't have any other info on it so I'm not sure where to find it.Well worth the watchin'.But when we as an industry are for ced to remove trees for such frivolus reasons as wanting more light on their pools,or grass sometimes ,no all the time,I want to shout to the world that we as a species are killing the world. But as a climber I feel obligated to tell customers of other alts. to removal, drop crotching,cabling... Too bad I'm not in sales!Soon.sorry just frustrated,as it is probley the single greatest calimity we as humans face .Again sorry, long winded,THANX

Ekka · 12th August 2007, 02:03 PM

Biggest threat here now is geotechnicians and foundation/building engineers.

Due to the current drought many houses are cracking. Reactive clay soils are subsiding, there is a standard that says where a trees distance is closer than it's height ... either top the tree or cut it down.

To err on the side of caution and cover their azzes in many instances a removal recommendation is made on them. In many instances all trees on the property are cut down.

This, although supported by engineers, is deemed the most cost effective method of alleviating the subsidence.

In my experience looking at all the cracked houses over my time in 90% of cases the house cracked on the side the tree was, also to coincidental to brush off.

With deforestation the newer method of fishbone or herringbone removal of vegetation creates more rain. We have a thread on that here to.

The message on the need for decent urban tree management is slowly being listened to by people.

dguntertrees · 22nd August 2007, 07:41 PM

The biggest threat by far is the perceived idea that"growth is good". By growth I mean growth in trade, population, industry, tourism..etc, etc. This is particularly apparent in Australia, where (unfortunately, 'cause I love this place) it seems that no lessons have been learned from the other (so called) "first World" countries like the UK and US. Unchecked development threatens all parts of this continent, and the trees just keep falling. How is a small arb operation able to help? give your clients options to removal/lopping. Take time to talk to them about why they want their trees lopped/removed. Try to educate as well as just quoting. Good tree management is both ecologically and environmentally sustainable, it will also sustain your business. We, as arborists, are in the front line and, if we can't pass on the message, who will? Al Gor is doing a great job bringing this info to the masses, but all of the issues raised in his movie/book have been around for at least 20 years. We all need to wake up.

Ekka · 23rd August 2007, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dguntertrees

Al Gor is doing a great job bringing this info to the masses, but all of the issues raised in his movie/book have been around for at least 20 years. We all need to wake up.

Exactly.

And we are the front line ... but a broken one with rogues and hacks BSing left right and centre to fell the next decent tree for a buck.

VPO's are the single most effective way to control unjustified felling, then controls can follow through as to what happens to the trees.

Here's a real live example with the recent council border changes.

Beenleigh goes from GCCC to Logan City Council.

GCCC says trees within 3m of house not protected. Logan says 15m! Pretty much the entire urban yard is not protected if you go 15m outside of the houses perimiter. So today I was looking at a row of Norfolks 4m away from a house, as it's in Beenleigh they are currently protected so an application for removal has to be approved ... come March 2008 none will be protected and we can fell the lot.

Hence the dramatic example of how stupid mankind and their rules are.

groundpounder · 23rd August 2007, 05:24 PM

Stupid rules are made by ignorant people that are under pressure to make a rule by other ignorant people. You may quote me on that.
The trees don't matter. The rule does. But things are not hopeless. In the 17 years I have been working in Denver, there have been scads of improvements in the way trees are cared for. Educated, ethical arborists are finding their way into government positions and are changing the rules to favor the trees. The professional arborists are all out educating every day and are delivering a consistant message, just as the hacks are out every day operating on tribal knowledge and myths, at best. And I think that's the way it will always be. Put one hack out of business and another pops up to fill the void. There are homeowners that are horrified to discover that a correct prune on their tree is going to cost them MONEY, so they call the hack. Everyone is happy but the tree.
High ethical standards, self education, public education and persistance will keep the hacks and stupid rules to a minimum.

Tree Machine · 24th August 2007, 05:04 AM

Seems we're all aligned. There is a new movie out right now, it follows on the footsteps of Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth. The main narrator is Leonardo DiCaprio. Al G. did a fabulous job, IMO, as he brought to front the solid science done by others.

In The 11th Hour it is the scientists, environmental leaders and even a few politicians who put their faces out there and have their say. In and amongst the verbage are some of the most compelling images imaginable, stuff we've all seen here and there throughout life and they're compiled and presented in a concentrated and intentful way.

Sharpend, if you found Al's movie compelling, The 11th Hour might make you cry on behalf of the planet. It's very powerful and moving. I attended a pre-screening for environmental leaders of our city, and their guests. When the screening was over and the lights came on, no one moved. Everyone just sat there. I'd never experienced anything quite like it. The audience stayed and we discussed it for close to an hour. I was the only Arborist there. The movie had a good deal to say about trees and the benefits people overlook in making way for what we term 'progress'.

The movie hit theaters nationwide Aug 24, 2007. That would be today.

Tree Machine · 24th August 2007, 05:14 AM

Go here to see the movie trailer for THE 11TH HOUR and definitely put in your e-mail and zip code. They are giving a lot of tickets away free to get the message out. Yes, big industry is doing something, taking action to catalyze large-scale awareness.

11th Hour Action has been put up so that WE can become more empowered to transform our way of thinking and being and acting before its simply too late.

sharpend · 26th August 2007, 03:54 PM

Yea,Thanx Tree Mach.. Iwatched the trailer looks very compelling. I still wonder at the fact that most people don't want to see beyond their own backyards. We have to see the biggest picture of all,our childrens future.In my own little world I do whatever can be done, but shurely there must be more that can be done.

Ekka · 26th August 2007, 09:12 PM

Why dont the law makers make laws instead of just taxes?

In my meager 45 years on this planet of which I would say 35 years have been pretty observant and coherant of the environment and business I can safely say that unless there's laws forget the good will of profit/business and common sense to prevail.

Trees in most urban areas here are not protected, a small law change would see them protected but it's just all too hard for governors to govern.

12th August 2007, 02:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Biggest threat here now is geotechnicians and foundation/building engineers. Due to the current drought many houses are cracking. Reactive clay soils are subsiding, there is a standard that says where a trees distance is closer than it's height ... either top the tree or cut it down. To err on the side of caution and cover their azzes in many instances a removal recommendation is made on them. In many instances all trees on the property are cut down. This, although supported by engineers, is deemed the most cost effective method of alleviating the subsidence. In my experience looking at all the cracked houses over my time in 90% of cases the house cracked on the side the tree was, also to coincidental to brush off. With deforestation the newer method of fishbone or herringbone removal of vegetation creates more rain. We have a thread on that here to. The message on the need for decent urban tree management is slowly being listened to by people. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

26th August 2007, 09:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Why dont the law makers make laws instead of just taxes? In my meager 45 years on this planet of which I would say 35 years have been pretty observant and coherant of the environment and business I can safely say that unless there's laws forget the good will of profit/business and common sense to prevail. Trees in most urban areas here are not protected, a small law change would see them protected but it's just all too hard for governors to govern. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

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10th April 2007, 03:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tim Craig Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 94	I sometimes tell the client that the reason they don't want to top the tree is that they will lose far too much photosynthetic space. Then the tree will either die or try to replace the lost foliage with a burst of epicormic growth(Tilia, Salix species etc)which will look like a toilet brush. They tend to re-think there original idea of cutting the tree in half. Well, some of them do.

12th August 2007, 11:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
sharpend Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 25	Ijust took EKKA's sugg. and checked out the science daily article. Truth be told I've never realized there was such a thing as "hydralic redistribution". But it does make perfect sense.But this is beside the point on my mind. Forgive my rambling, but the thing most on my mind is the deforestation and subsequent warming trends that result from wanton destruction of trees habitat and open spaces.I just recently caught a symposium hosted by Al Gore on the effects and causes of global warming.It probly alarmed me more than anything I'd seen on the tube.GGreat presentation. Don't have any other info on it so I'm not sure where to find it.Well worth the watchin'.But when we as an industry are for ced to remove trees for such frivolus reasons as wanting more light on their pools,or grass sometimes ,no all the time,I want to shout to the world that we as a species are killing the world. But as a climber I feel obligated to tell customers of other alts. to removal, drop crotching,cabling... Too bad I'm not in sales!Soon.sorry just frustrated,as it is probley the single greatest calimity we as humans face .Again sorry, long winded,THANX

22nd August 2007, 07:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
dguntertrees Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mudgeeraba, SE Queensland Posts: 127	The biggest threat by far is the perceived idea that"growth is good". By growth I mean growth in trade, population, industry, tourism..etc, etc. This is particularly apparent in Australia, where (unfortunately, 'cause I love this place) it seems that no lessons have been learned from the other (so called) "first World" countries like the UK and US. Unchecked development threatens all parts of this continent, and the trees just keep falling. How is a small arb operation able to help? give your clients options to removal/lopping. Take time to talk to them about why they want their trees lopped/removed. Try to educate as well as just quoting. Good tree management is both ecologically and environmentally sustainable, it will also sustain your business. We, as arborists, are in the front line and, if we can't pass on the message, who will? Al Gor is doing a great job bringing this info to the masses, but all of the issues raised in his movie/book have been around for at least 20 years. We all need to wake up.

23rd August 2007, 05:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
groundpounder Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Centennial Co. Posts: 21	Stupid rules are made by ignorant people that are under pressure to make a rule by other ignorant people. You may quote me on that. The trees don't matter. The rule does. But things are not hopeless. In the 17 years I have been working in Denver, there have been scads of improvements in the way trees are cared for. Educated, ethical arborists are finding their way into government positions and are changing the rules to favor the trees. The professional arborists are all out educating every day and are delivering a consistant message, just as the hacks are out every day operating on tribal knowledge and myths, at best. And I think that's the way it will always be. Put one hack out of business and another pops up to fill the void. There are homeowners that are horrified to discover that a correct prune on their tree is going to cost them MONEY, so they call the hack. Everyone is happy but the tree. High ethical standards, self education, public education and persistance will keep the hacks and stupid rules to a minimum.

24th August 2007, 05:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	Seems we're all aligned. There is a new movie out right now, it follows on the footsteps of Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth. The main narrator is Leonardo DiCaprio. Al G. did a fabulous job, IMO, as he brought to front the solid science done by others. In The 11th Hour it is the scientists, environmental leaders and even a few politicians who put their faces out there and have their say. In and amongst the verbage are some of the most compelling images imaginable, stuff we've all seen here and there throughout life and they're compiled and presented in a concentrated and intentful way. Sharpend, if you found Al's movie compelling, The 11th Hour might make you cry on behalf of the planet. It's very powerful and moving. I attended a pre-screening for environmental leaders of our city, and their guests. When the screening was over and the lights came on, no one moved. Everyone just sat there. I'd never experienced anything quite like it. The audience stayed and we discussed it for close to an hour. I was the only Arborist there. The movie had a good deal to say about trees and the benefits people overlook in making way for what we term 'progress'. The movie hit theaters nationwide Aug 24, 2007. That would be today.

24th August 2007, 05:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	Go here to see the movie trailer for THE 11TH HOUR and definitely put in your e-mail and zip code. They are giving a lot of tickets away free to get the message out. Yes, big industry is doing something, taking action to catalyze large-scale awareness. 11th Hour Action has been put up so that WE can become more empowered to transform our way of thinking and being and acting before its simply too late.

26th August 2007, 03:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
sharpend Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 25	Yea,Thanx Tree Mach.. Iwatched the trailer looks very compelling. I still wonder at the fact that most people don't want to see beyond their own backyards. We have to see the biggest picture of all,our childrens future.In my own little world I do whatever can be done, but shurely there must be more that can be done.