Palm Transplanting| Phoenix canariensis| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead?

Ekka · 11th October 2007, 01:11 AM

Well, sort of a quote come inspection I had to do in Brisbane today.

Is the palm dead or not, can it be saved?

What's the verdict and why did it die if it is in fact dead.

I'll run the pics through in order. Then next post explain.

Pics are 800px x 600px size for viewing pleasure.

Quintrex · 11th October 2007, 02:10 AM

Hi Ekka.
It certainly looks dead to me, no sign of green in the head or any evidence of a new spear shaft emerging.
In Sydney, Fusarium Fungus has decimated large poplulations of Phoenix Canariensis, starting at Centennial Park and Moore Park, then finding it's way to Rockdale Council LGA, gradually killing an Avenue along President Ave and 3 other steets which were showplaces the council put a lot of resources into maintaining.
A few years later, the fungus appeared in the Sutherland Shire, across a major river (Georges River). This was thought to be imported by Palms transplanted into the Cronulla Mall from all over Sydney prior to 1988 for a Bi- Centenary beautification project.
We treated many of these by extensive watering and applications of Sea-sol, but only achieved a survival rate of 5 %.
We annually prune these trees of dead fronds, fruit and extraneous growth, and sterilse all tools with concentrated bleach between each Palm.
Steve

Ekka · 11th October 2007, 04:31 AM

That house is ex display home so we know the palm was transplanted.

Now I'll have to expose some myths coz I see way too much bad transplanting of palms based on BS more than logic.

MYTH: Palms dont need much root ball as cut roots dont branch out but die back to the stem.

TRUTH: Many species do branch out providing the cut is clean and sharp. Canariensis is prolific at branching. However that said, some palms like the Sabal palmetto (Cabbage palm) do not branch and rely upon new roots growing.

MYTH: A 30cm to 45cm root ball is plenty.

TRUTH: At 60cm to 1m radius root ball will result in maximum root branching.

MYTH: Cutting roots before transplanting promotes new root growth and better survival.

TRUTH: Whilst the above may be true for dicotyledons there is no supportive evidence of such for monocotyledons. New hair like roots may well be damaged during the transplant.

MYTH: Root stimulating hormone treatment helps grow new roots.

TRUTH: Whilst the above may be true for dicotyledons research shows little to no benefit in palms.

MYTH: To assist with transplant and reduce water loss 50% to 75% of leaves are removed and the balance tied up.

TRUTH: Whilst the tying up of leaves helps reduce damage the removal of green leaves inhibits new shoot growth.

MYTH: You can plant the palms deeper (grade change).

TRUTH: Studies have found survival rates diminish, maintain original grade.

--------------------

Other things to consider, a canopy mist spray, continual moisture for root area, decent backfill without air gaps and fissures, mulch well.

So we had die back of cut roots, no new roots, poorly backfilled with air gaps and fissures and perhaps no water during a drought. The proximity of the air gaps means it was a small root ball. (quite typical)

Also, the hole that was dug wasn't exactly prepared well with a mix of new nice soil and existing soil ... it was tough shaly clay on a building site ... hardly the most inviting growing medium. It was like it was plonked there and had mulch dumped around it.

Now do your research, look on the net at some of the transplanting palm people and you'll see to this day the above myths mentioned in there "biblical speils". Look at the pics and you'll see tiny root balls, hardly any leaves, sometimes weeks pass before they are dropped into their holes, watering systems in adequate.

What nobody likes to mention is their death rate, it can take up to 2 years for the palms to establish and just as long to die.

Here's a classic pic I took of the new featured palms at the Logan Hyperdome. I live nearby and watched this debacle, what a dumb idea and they had tiny root balls. Then they built around them ... yes, the palms went in then the buildings went up. Would have been a bugger of a removal getting the dead one out.

So goes to show, dont think coz you are spending $10k on your new palm all is OK. Some make guarantees, but read the fine print, at the end of the day common sense prevails ... the more leaves the better
... the bigger the root ball the better, but dont go too big or when they lift the palm by the trunk they could break/damage many roots, best would be palms that have done a stint in a container prior.

Sources, PDF attached and Transplanting Palms plus seeing so many transplants die!

Sean Freeman · 11th October 2007, 04:41 AM

It cannot be emphasised enough that ensuring the removal of air gaps around the roots and soil of the transplanted tree or palm are one of the most overlooked aspects of the replanting procedure in any transplant...and responsible for more declining and dying plants than anything else IMHO....it takes less than an half an hour of simple labour to avoid this, even on big transplants.

"I've been watering it every day but it's still dying like its getting no water"

Ekka · 11th October 2007, 04:42 AM

Wash in a sandy loam mix, easy.

TrevMcRev · 11th October 2007, 05:26 AM

Yep, yep and yep!

Ekka that pic's a beauty! Has the end one been removed yet?

Nearly as bad as the ones in the dome we did.

The first work we did there was to remove the dead one. Had to be done and clean before the 11:30 lunch crowd.

And have been trimming the other 3 since.

They wont listen about looking after them though

Ekka · 11th October 2007, 05:46 AM

Tell us how you did it, must have been a bloody mess!

Yes, first one is down and gone ... dont know who or how. Nowhere to block down to, maybe crane.

What a dumb idea putting them in that dome joint. Just as dumb as the ones at Hyperdome here.

TrevMcRev · 11th October 2007, 06:22 PM

Ekka, we couldnt block down in there either with the tiled floor.

Hired in a little electric scissor lift that just fit through the front door.

Go up, cut a couple of blocks, come down, pass to groundy, go back up & repeat till nothing left. This actually worked quite well.

Used lots of drop sheets to help with clean up.

We even ground out the stump and removed the spoil.

They had cleaners ready to mop the floor ready to go soon as we were done.

I'm sure we'll be doing another one soon enough! Will get video if we do.

Ekka · 11th October 2007, 08:24 PM

See that one in my pic, the roof is in the way, comes out maybe 5m then the garden wall then a synthetic spongy turf for kids to play on!

Palm was growing through hole in floor to.

I got a nibble at the quote stage but the management wouldn't co-operate or even meet, just leave us a price mate!

So, I didn't bother, how are you going to discuss access, traffic control etc plus that one is a bar area and operates 6am to 1am almost 24/7 with eateries etc and a gym all around.

Just leave a price mate!

TrevMcRev · 12th October 2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Just leave a price mate!

Ahhh yeah i hate that. Wont do it at all for pruning. And removals like that, if they wont/cant meet then at least must be able to discuss in detail.

Otherwise give em a lowish quote with some smallprint, then add all additional costs to the bill

Ekka · 16th October 2007, 10:53 PM

Well I cut it down today.

It stank, really stank putrid, flies hanging around by the droves and was mushy ... well advanced into the rotting cycle.

When I picked pieces up with the Kanga they were dripping the stink juice. From experience I estimate time of death around 2.00am on 17 April 2007 (lol just kidding but 4 to 6 months is about right)

1st pic is the base, I went in after trying to pull it over with the Kanga and near cut off all the hinge just leaving a bit on the sides coz it just wasn't going over right.

2nd pic you'll see up the top left the scarf piece and the rot. Also on the right is the central core of the head ... it fell out! Rotten as.

3rd pic, the bulk of it is loaded ready for the funeral procession to the burial ground.

Quintrex · 17th October 2007, 03:00 AM

When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

11th October 2007, 02:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Quintrex Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 464	Re: Is this Date Palm\| Phoenix canariensis\| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead? Hi Ekka. It certainly looks dead to me, no sign of green in the head or any evidence of a new spear shaft emerging. In Sydney, Fusarium Fungus has decimated large poplulations of Phoenix Canariensis, starting at Centennial Park and Moore Park, then finding it's way to Rockdale Council LGA, gradually killing an Avenue along President Ave and 3 other steets which were showplaces the council put a lot of resources into maintaining. A few years later, the fungus appeared in the Sutherland Shire, across a major river (Georges River). This was thought to be imported by Palms transplanted into the Cronulla Mall from all over Sydney prior to 1988 for a Bi- Centenary beautification project. We treated many of these by extensive watering and applications of Sea-sol, but only achieved a survival rate of 5 %. We annually prune these trees of dead fronds, fruit and extraneous growth, and sterilse all tools with concentrated bleach between each Palm. Steve

11th October 2007, 04:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Re: Palm Transplanting\| Phoenix canariensis\| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead It cannot be emphasised enough that ensuring the removal of air gaps around the roots and soil of the transplanted tree or palm are one of the most overlooked aspects of the replanting procedure in any transplant...and responsible for more declining and dying plants than anything else IMHO....it takes less than an half an hour of simple labour to avoid this, even on big transplants. "I've been watering it every day but it's still dying like its getting no water" __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

11th October 2007, 04:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Re: Palm Transplanting\| Phoenix canariensis\| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead Wash in a sandy loam mix, easy. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

11th October 2007, 05:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Re: Palm Transplanting\| Phoenix canariensis\| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead Tell us how you did it, must have been a bloody mess! Yes, first one is down and gone ... dont know who or how. Nowhere to block down to, maybe crane. What a dumb idea putting them in that dome joint. Just as dumb as the ones at Hyperdome here. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

11th October 2007, 06:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 734	Re: Palm Transplanting\| Phoenix canariensis\| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead Ekka, we couldnt block down in there either with the tiled floor. Hired in a little electric scissor lift that just fit through the front door. Go up, cut a couple of blocks, come down, pass to groundy, go back up & repeat till nothing left. This actually worked quite well. Used lots of drop sheets to help with clean up. We even ground out the stump and removed the spoil. They had cleaners ready to mop the floor ready to go soon as we were done. I'm sure we'll be doing another one soon enough! Will get video if we do. __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

11th October 2007, 08:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Re: Palm Transplanting\| Phoenix canariensis\| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead See that one in my pic, the roof is in the way, comes out maybe 5m then the garden wall then a synthetic spongy turf for kids to play on! Palm was growing through hole in floor to. I got a nibble at the quote stage but the management wouldn't co-operate or even meet, just leave us a price mate! So, I didn't bother, how are you going to discuss access, traffic control etc plus that one is a bar area and operates 6am to 1am almost 24/7 with eateries etc and a gym all around. Just leave a price mate! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

17th October 2007, 03:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
Quintrex Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 464	Re: Palm Transplanting\| Phoenix canariensis\| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

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