Nursery Standards

Sean Freeman · 18th June 2007, 01:20 AM

There are a set of standards and specfications for nursery production of trees, believe or not they were written 11yrs ago!! Yes I know it takes time for change to happen but still 11yrs! Maybe the problem is that we as a profession don't know about these standards, or how to encourage the adoption of them by the nursery industry.

I recently did a plant stock inspection using the NATSPEC standards "Specifiying Trees" for a major company in Queensland, and so its been on my mind. I won't put the book up as
1) I don't have it as a pdf and to post it as scans would take too long and
2) the author deserves money for his work.
However there is a sample available on the net so I've posted that.

SpecTrees.pdf

It stems from the same work done in the US by Gilman et al and their work is amply explained and detailed here http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/nursery_production.html
theres 15 links to follow there that explain why and how the standards were developed and implemented, note there is a federal standard ANSI Z60.1 but also state standards in Florida, and California.

So if its an area you have some involvement in ie advising landscape design etc get yourself a copy of the book, or just engage your larger nursery supplier in a discussion about standards in production. I would bet that like me you have all seen way too many problems and defects in trees as a result of poor stock right back at the nursery stage....it aint necessary, proper production practices remove those problems completely.

Ekka · 18th June 2007, 01:26 AM

It explains terms but doesn't actually tell you what a good one is or what the standard is etc.

In other words, is there one with pictures?

Ekka · 26th July 2007, 08:18 PM

Boa

On this link you'll see many ... so there's an Australian Standard for nursery stock? Only avail hard cover and expensive. Or is the BS or British Standard?

http://www.saiglobal.com/shop/Script...arch=+Go+&TR=1

Sean Freeman · 26th July 2007, 08:40 PM

Thats the British Standard, haven't read it, so can't comment but would be very surprised if it was not based on the same roots as NATSPEC ie the Florida and Californian models.

Go here http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/pubs.html scroll down the list on the left to Grades and standards..tree section divided into 4 files and below the palms and cycads section, in these pdfs you'll see exactly what is being defined as best practice in the nursery and how to recognise it in the plants you might consider buying.

As I've said previously this is for Florida but the principles established there have been adapted into NATSPEC and are shared no doubt by the British standard.

treeseer · 27th July 2007, 01:12 AM

That's my first time seeing the Florida standard and I cannot see a definition of the trunk flare or a statement of the need to have that point exposed and at or near grade. Boa not to violate a copyright or deny the man his due but could you please look at your Spec Trees and see if there is mention of these specifications found in the usa standard:

. The European nursery standards specify root pruning at every step, 4”-8” further out each time, to avoid these defects. The ANSI Z60 American nursery standards do not address this problem.

Root “balls”, the volume of soil packed inside a young tree’s packaging, have been getting rounder and rounder every year. Whether trees are grown in containers or dug from the field B&B (balled and burlapped), soil is commonly heaped around the trunk, where it does not belong. The trunk flare, where the trunk naturally turns into roots and the tree joins the earth, is all too often buried early in the growing process, and buried deeper yet at planting time. Some specifications still ignore the requirement in ANSI A300 (Part 6)-2005, 63.6.2.3, “The bottom of the trunk flare SHALL be at or above finished grade”. Instead, they instruct the landscape contractors to plant the root BALL at ground level, so the landscapers obediently follow this instruction, with disastrous consequences.

Arborists should have the ANSI standard—available from TCIA—in hand when they talk to growers and landscape architects and landscapers about deep planting. When these professionals see with their own eyes that the American Nursery and Landscape Association and the American Society of Landscape Architects are represented in ANSI, they will realize that they don’t have a stem to stand on when they bury trees. The entire green industry agrees that we should always be able to find the trunk flare.

Technically, the rootball does not even include the soil above the trunk flare. It is “measured from the bottom of the trunk flare to the bottom of the ball.” (ANSI A300 (Part 6)-2005, 63.6.1.2) If the flare is found and set to grade, in a hole “a minimum of 1.5 times the diameter of the root ball” (63.6.1.4), with mulch “applied near, but not touching the trunk” (63.6.2.9), the tree roots will not need to grow up in search of oxygen. But even if these standards are followed at planting time, the tree may not grow well. For some reason, there is nothing in the standard about the making sure the roots, at least the major roots, are growing away from the stem. Why not? You’ll have to ask your organization’s representative to the ANSI committee, and get your comments in before the standard is revised again in 2010. The ANSI pruning standard does not currently cover root pruning—perhaps with the right kind of input, that standard can change to provide needed guidance on this simple act of arboriculture.

The above from the page 8 article here: http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_July_07.pdf

This article is being revised for Arbor Age to include oz standards. Also needed are Tree Planting standards in oz--links please?

Sean Freeman · 27th July 2007, 03:21 AM

Hello guy, great to have you visit and share with us, welcome mate!

You make some really important points and they are interestingly greatly overlooked here, perhaps we just don't have urban tree populations of an age to reveal the consequences of both Stem Girdling Roots SGR's and buried trees as yet to stimulate widespread recognition of the problems...though they surely do exist, and many of us have seen the results of both. Here's one that I probably should have identified as being SGR as much as buried Wind throw.

Reading NATSPEC there is a section on Height of the root crown

"The root crown is the junction between the below-ground parts and above ground parts of the tree. Regardless of the size of the tree the root crown belongs at the surface of the root ball. Burying the root crown can lead to fungal infections, serious disruptions of the root system's structure and function or to the death of the tree (see Fig 2.4)

Height of the root crown assessment criterion:
- The root crown must be at the surface of the rootball. "

There's a diagram to show what the root crown is and the location it has to have for sustainable long term healthy growth.

I really think Ross Clark has done a great job in developing NATSPEC and very strongly recommend that all Arborists in Oz buy a copy of his book, trust me it will assist and simplify much of your interactions with clients in relation to not only buying new trees, but the early stages of their care.

treeseer · 27th July 2007, 03:52 AM

thank you sir that is just what i needed on growing standards. I will quote and attribute. Now, for Planting...?

SGR's are also widely overlooked here, that's why I wrote the article. People just don't want to get on their knees and get their hands dirty it seems...There is ome academic research that is useful but that takes a long time to get data and meanwhile our nurseries are churning out defects by the billions and our children's urban forest is stunted.

Sean Freeman · 27th July 2007, 06:11 AM

Ah... planting....not part of NATSPEC....but for those who are looking for useful quality information to support best practice they should spend some time viewing the Morton Arboretum website esp http://www.mortonarb.org/deeptreeroots/ where they'll find a wealth of recent research to guide proper planting, and the published proceedings from the 2003 conference "Getting the roots right"

treeseer · 27th July 2007, 06:00 PM

hard to believe there is no planting standard.

Astounding that the BS is 24 pages for $185.

ok sean next question: do green industry organizations in oz go on record as supporting NATSPEC? Here they are involved in writing the standard but you guys seem to trust pioneers to do the work.

in the usa, "Arborists should have the ANSI standard—available from TCIA—in hand when they talk to growers and landscape architects and landscapers about deep planting. When these professionals see with their own eyes that the American Nursery and Landscape Association and the American Society of Landscape Architects are represented in ANSI, they will realize that they don’t have a stem to stand on when they bury trees. The entire green industry agrees that we should always be able to find the trunk flare.

Sean Freeman · 27th July 2007, 08:41 PM

Its kind of complicated Guy due to the fact that our wonderful federal system divides and conquers!
So in the case of an activity that does not have a national standard written for it AS#### each state can develop its own specfications or regulations or code of practice (this is the case currently for tree work in Qld, NSW, and Victoria...there may be others but those are the ones I'm sure of!) and of course business and industry will over time align itself to those state benchmarks where applicable, and thereby support their retention and development etc.

Most states have a Nursery Industry association and these bodies have their own aim/benchmarks etc... We also have a national industry body, there are also all the same horticultural groups associations institutes and bodies at both a state and federal level...great eh?

Now Ross didn't do all his work on the specifications for trees alone, but he did follow through where others had tried and given up...in writing the specs he had to find an existing professional body into which these specs could fit and more importantly work...thats where NATSPEC comes in, most people won't have heard of then since it is really and building and construction based organisation http://www.natspec.com.au/page.asp?w...%20Information

What Ross has done (with others) is to develop an assessment system which fits perfectly into the NATSPEC model and so has made it very simple and easy for large firms to use NATSPEC to specify the quality and standards for their intended plant stock for say a major development site...in exactly the same way they would specify for street lighting or benches or sliding windows etc...

As for the support that Specifying Trees has got from other industry orgs, my good friend in the Australian Institute of Horticulture is in Hawaii right (where I was going too) now so I can't tell you with any certainty but having done some stock inspections for large landscape architect firms I can say some of the nurseries here in Qld have not even heard of NATSPEC!

Standards for tree protection (construction) amenity tree valuation and nursery production are works in progress here in Oz, and as always is the case with attempting something at a national scale very slow and laborious....but we will get there, in the meantime we have to try our best to ensure that tree works are ubdertaken to internationally recognised best practice.

treeseer · 28th July 2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boa07

Its kind of complicated Guy due to the fact that our wonderful federal system divides and conquers!
So in the case of an activity that does not have a national standard written for it AS#### each state can develop its own specfications or regulations or code of practice (this is the case currently for tree work in Qld, NSW, and Victoria...there may be others but those are the ones I'm sure of!) and of course business and industry will over time align itself to those state benchmarks where applicable, and thereby support their retention and development etc.

Most states have a Nursery Industry association and these bodies have their own aim/benchmarks etc... We also have a national industry body, there are also all the same horticultural groups associations institutes and bodies at both a state and federal level...great eh?

Now Ross didn't do all his work on the specifications for trees alone, but he did follow through where others had tried and given up...in writing the specs he had to find an existing professional body into which these specs could fit and more importantly work...thats where NATSPEC comes in, most people won't have heard of then since it is really and building and construction based organisation http://www.natspec.com.au/page.asp?w...%20Information

What Ross has done (with others) is to develop an assessment system which fits perfectly into the NATSPEC model and so has made it very simple and easy for large firms to use NATSPEC to specify the quality and standards for their intended plant stock for say a major development site...in exactly the same way they would specify for street lighting or benches or sliding windows etc...

We have the same federal/state issues, good and bad. It sounds like a brilliant move, getting the standard taken on by the building people. With all their money and power they are in a much better position to get poor growing practices changed than arborist/environmentalist rabble.

who are on the fringe. Of course it all still comes down to enforcement.

Quote:

As for the support that Specifying Trees has got from other industry orgs, my good friend in the Australian Institute of Horticulture is in Hawaii right (where I was going too) now so I can't tell you with any certainty but having done some stock inspections for large landscape architect firms I can say some of the nurseries here in Qld have not even heard of NATSPEC!

So now will those inspections and insightful inciteful reports result in buyer dissatisfaction--and returns of stock? In my home state I am blackbaled from speaking to landscape groups because I have shone a light on girdling roots in the landscape. Sorry you missed HI; this is the first time away from isa's conference for 5 years and I am missing it severely.

Quote:

Standards for tree protection (construction)

Our standard is thin and weak--very little agreed on, but it is a good start. we hadfalse starts getting bmp's done, then it was given to a grad student who had problems with it.

Quote:

amenity tree valuation

we are on our 10th edition; major changes contemplated, we'll see...

Quote:

and nursery production are works in progress here in Oz, and as always is the case with attempting something at a national scale very slow and laborious....but we will get there, in the meantime we have to try our best to ensure that tree works are ubdertaken to internationally recognised best practice.

We need to do more international sharing--this has been very helpful to me.
Are you familiar with Arbor Age magazine's Bi-Annual version of the The Aust. Arbor Age ?The Consulting Arborist? which will source articles from Abroad and Locally which will only focus on issues for the Profession. Did you see anything like this 2 years ago, or is it just starting?

"This will really increase the awareness of the ever growing profession. As there are many new comers all the time in the practical side to the Industry, many original readers of AA are heading in this consulting direction."

true enough here, responding to a huge need.

Sean Freeman · 28th July 2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Are you familiar with Arbor Age magazine's Bi-Annual version of the The Aust. Arbor Age ?The Consulting Arborist? which will source articles from Abroad and Locally which will only focus on issues for the Profession. Did you see anything like this 2 years ago, or is it just starting?

I haven't seen the Consulting Arborist will keep my eyes open for that one!

treeseer · 28th July 2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boa07

I haven't seen the Consulting Arborist will keep my eyes open for that one!

Do you have a good picture of stem-girdling roots?

Sean Freeman · 28th July 2007, 02:21 PM

We do see quite a lot of SGR's just like in the USA but these shots are from the thread I referenced previously, and again I probably missed the diagnosis since I now feel that the major structural weakness for this Euc was the impact of the SGR on the root tissues below it, yes the tree was buried to some extent but the SGR ensured the decline and death of too much functional tissue below it in the supporting butress roots, permitting fungal colonisation and failure due to wind loading.

Here's the fallen tree, also rains in the days before added to the mix

a closer look at the trunk

Where the SGR pressed against the trunk tissues

From another angle clearly showing the extent of the constriction

Highlighted

SGR's are particularly common in our street trees, both because of the poor nursery stock, but also due to hostile growing conditions that greatly deflect butress root growing directions at an early stage.

treeseer · 28th July 2007, 02:38 PM

what happened to the SGR that left the groove in the stem?

that tree wasn't grafted was it--doesn't look like it, but just making sure.

Do you have the pic with the groove in 3 meg or more size?

18th June 2007, 01:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Nursery Standards There are a set of standards and specfications for nursery production of trees, believe or not they were written 11yrs ago!! Yes I know it takes time for change to happen but still 11yrs! Maybe the problem is that we as a profession don't know about these standards, or how to encourage the adoption of them by the nursery industry. I recently did a plant stock inspection using the NATSPEC standards "Specifiying Trees" for a major company in Queensland, and so its been on my mind. I won't put the book up as 1) I don't have it as a pdf and to post it as scans would take too long and 2) the author deserves money for his work. However there is a sample available on the net so I've posted that. SpecTrees.pdf It stems from the same work done in the US by Gilman et al and their work is amply explained and detailed here http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/nursery_production.html theres 15 links to follow there that explain why and how the standards were developed and implemented, note there is a federal standard ANSI Z60.1 but also state standards in Florida, and California. So if its an area you have some involvement in ie advising landscape design etc get yourself a copy of the book, or just engage your larger nursery supplier in a discussion about standards in production. I would bet that like me you have all seen way too many problems and defects in trees as a result of poor stock right back at the nursery stage....it aint necessary, proper production practices remove those problems completely. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

18th June 2007, 01:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,932	It explains terms but doesn't actually tell you what a good one is or what the standard is etc. In other words, is there one with pictures? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

26th July 2007, 08:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,932	Boa On this link you'll see many ... so there's an Australian Standard for nursery stock? Only avail hard cover and expensive. Or is the BS or British Standard? http://www.saiglobal.com/shop/Script...arch=+Go+&TR=1 __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

26th July 2007, 08:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Thats the British Standard, haven't read it, so can't comment but would be very surprised if it was not based on the same roots as NATSPEC ie the Florida and Californian models. Go here http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/pubs.html scroll down the list on the left to Grades and standards..tree section divided into 4 files and below the palms and cycads section, in these pdfs you'll see exactly what is being defined as best practice in the nursery and how to recognise it in the plants you might consider buying. As I've said previously this is for Florida but the principles established there have been adapted into NATSPEC and are shared no doubt by the British standard. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

27th July 2007, 01:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
treeseer Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 585	That's my first time seeing the Florida standard and I cannot see a definition of the trunk flare or a statement of the need to have that point exposed and at or near grade. Boa not to violate a copyright or deny the man his due but could you please look at your Spec Trees and see if there is mention of these specifications found in the usa standard: . The European nursery standards specify root pruning at every step, 4”-8” further out each time, to avoid these defects. The ANSI Z60 American nursery standards do not address this problem. Root “balls”, the volume of soil packed inside a young tree’s packaging, have been getting rounder and rounder every year. Whether trees are grown in containers or dug from the field B&B (balled and burlapped), soil is commonly heaped around the trunk, where it does not belong. The trunk flare, where the trunk naturally turns into roots and the tree joins the earth, is all too often buried early in the growing process, and buried deeper yet at planting time. Some specifications still ignore the requirement in ANSI A300 (Part 6)-2005, 63.6.2.3, “The bottom of the trunk flare SHALL be at or above finished grade”. Instead, they instruct the landscape contractors to plant the root BALL at ground level, so the landscapers obediently follow this instruction, with disastrous consequences. Arborists should have the ANSI standard—available from TCIA—in hand when they talk to growers and landscape architects and landscapers about deep planting. When these professionals see with their own eyes that the American Nursery and Landscape Association and the American Society of Landscape Architects are represented in ANSI, they will realize that they don’t have a stem to stand on when they bury trees. The entire green industry agrees that we should always be able to find the trunk flare. Technically, the rootball does not even include the soil above the trunk flare. It is “measured from the bottom of the trunk flare to the bottom of the ball.” (ANSI A300 (Part 6)-2005, 63.6.1.2) If the flare is found and set to grade, in a hole “a minimum of 1.5 times the diameter of the root ball” (63.6.1.4), with mulch “applied near, but not touching the trunk” (63.6.2.9), the tree roots will not need to grow up in search of oxygen. But even if these standards are followed at planting time, the tree may not grow well. For some reason, there is nothing in the standard about the making sure the roots, at least the major roots, are growing away from the stem. Why not? You’ll have to ask your organization’s representative to the ANSI committee, and get your comments in before the standard is revised again in 2010. The ANSI pruning standard does not currently cover root pruning—perhaps with the right kind of input, that standard can change to provide needed guidance on this simple act of arboriculture. The above from the page 8 article here: http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_July_07.pdf This article is being revised for Arbor Age to include oz standards. Also needed are Tree Planting standards in oz--links please? __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care Last edited by treeseer : 27th July 2007 at 03:01 AM.

27th July 2007, 03:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Hello guy, great to have you visit and share with us, welcome mate! You make some really important points and they are interestingly greatly overlooked here, perhaps we just don't have urban tree populations of an age to reveal the consequences of both Stem Girdling Roots SGR's and buried trees as yet to stimulate widespread recognition of the problems...though they surely do exist, and many of us have seen the results of both. Here's one that I probably should have identified as being SGR as much as buried Wind throw. Reading NATSPEC there is a section on Height of the root crown "The root crown is the junction between the below-ground parts and above ground parts of the tree. Regardless of the size of the tree the root crown belongs at the surface of the root ball. Burying the root crown can lead to fungal infections, serious disruptions of the root system's structure and function or to the death of the tree (see Fig 2.4) Height of the root crown assessment criterion: - The root crown must be at the surface of the rootball. " There's a diagram to show what the root crown is and the location it has to have for sustainable long term healthy growth. I really think Ross Clark has done a great job in developing NATSPEC and very strongly recommend that all Arborists in Oz buy a copy of his book, trust me it will assist and simplify much of your interactions with clients in relation to not only buying new trees, but the early stages of their care. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

27th July 2007, 03:52 AM	#7 (permalink)
treeseer Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 585	thank you sir that is just what i needed on growing standards. I will quote and attribute. Now, for Planting...? SGR's are also widely overlooked here, that's why I wrote the article. People just don't want to get on their knees and get their hands dirty it seems...There is ome academic research that is useful but that takes a long time to get data and meanwhile our nurseries are churning out defects by the billions and our children's urban forest is stunted. __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care

27th July 2007, 06:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Ah... planting....not part of NATSPEC....but for those who are looking for useful quality information to support best practice they should spend some time viewing the Morton Arboretum website esp http://www.mortonarb.org/deeptreeroots/ where they'll find a wealth of recent research to guide proper planting, and the published proceedings from the 2003 conference "Getting the roots right" __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

27th July 2007, 06:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
treeseer Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 585	hard to believe there is no planting standard. Astounding that the BS is 24 pages for $185. ok sean next question: do green industry organizations in oz go on record as supporting NATSPEC? Here they are involved in writing the standard but you guys seem to trust pioneers to do the work. in the usa, "Arborists should have the ANSI standard—available from TCIA—in hand when they talk to growers and landscape architects and landscapers about deep planting. When these professionals see with their own eyes that the American Nursery and Landscape Association and the American Society of Landscape Architects are represented in ANSI, they will realize that they don’t have a stem to stand on when they bury trees. The entire green industry agrees that we should always be able to find the trunk flare. __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care

27th July 2007, 08:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Its kind of complicated Guy due to the fact that our wonderful federal system divides and conquers! So in the case of an activity that does not have a national standard written for it AS#### each state can develop its own specfications or regulations or code of practice (this is the case currently for tree work in Qld, NSW, and Victoria...there may be others but those are the ones I'm sure of!) and of course business and industry will over time align itself to those state benchmarks where applicable, and thereby support their retention and development etc. Most states have a Nursery Industry association and these bodies have their own aim/benchmarks etc... We also have a national industry body, there are also all the same horticultural groups associations institutes and bodies at both a state and federal level...great eh? Now Ross didn't do all his work on the specifications for trees alone, but he did follow through where others had tried and given up...in writing the specs he had to find an existing professional body into which these specs could fit and more importantly work...thats where NATSPEC comes in, most people won't have heard of then since it is really and building and construction based organisation http://www.natspec.com.au/page.asp?w...%20Information What Ross has done (with others) is to develop an assessment system which fits perfectly into the NATSPEC model and so has made it very simple and easy for large firms to use NATSPEC to specify the quality and standards for their intended plant stock for say a major development site...in exactly the same way they would specify for street lighting or benches or sliding windows etc... As for the support that Specifying Trees has got from other industry orgs, my good friend in the Australian Institute of Horticulture is in Hawaii right (where I was going too) now so I can't tell you with any certainty but having done some stock inspections for large landscape architect firms I can say some of the nurseries here in Qld have not even heard of NATSPEC! Standards for tree protection (construction) amenity tree valuation and nursery production are works in progress here in Oz, and as always is the case with attempting something at a national scale very slow and laborious....but we will get there, in the meantime we have to try our best to ensure that tree works are ubdertaken to internationally recognised best practice. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

28th July 2007, 02:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
treeseer Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 585	what happened to the SGR that left the groove in the stem? that tree wasn't grafted was it--doesn't look like it, but just making sure. Do you have the pic with the groove in 3 meg or more size? __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care