New updated Australian Standard

justoon · 3rd May 2007, 10:06 PM

Ok guys the A.S. 4373 1996 PRUNING OF AMENITY TREES has now been updated to incorperate the draft proceedure discussed on this forum.The new A.S. is 4373 2007 and was introduced on the 31st March this year.Now i have only just downloaded it but the new standard looks exactly the same as the draft.

Ekka · 3rd May 2007, 10:35 PM

Yep, and tomorrow I'll be spike climbing some palms to clean them.

justoon · 7th May 2007, 05:55 PM

Eric thats nice. Now please understand that i am not going to get snarky BUT you know as well as i do as soon as someone F***s up and gets hurt using spikes on palms, Workcover is going to come in and say why were you not following work practises as set out in the standard?? this will then lead to absolute mountains of paperwork and extreme headaches,nashing of teeth and tearing of hair,with no-one to blame but ourselves and more than likely a fine of some sort.I dont want to be a wet blanket but it is the truth.

Ekka · 7th May 2007, 07:31 PM

Justoon, you and I both know the practicality over this ... but lets look at it objectively, forget what some tree hugger wants for the tree and lets look at this.

What's the alternative?

Ladder, F that and way unsafer. In fact I fell 4m when ascending the ladder go to the top and slipped. You are not secured on the journey up and down and you cant work 360 degree view of the head. Many times you have to go back down to raise/move the ladder. Also ladders aren't always long enough.

EWP, even if you forget cost then access is an issue.

Rope over palm head and go up ... put your life onto the fronds of a palm? Risk a cut our like Recurve did and fell?

Which leaves special non invasive climbing apparatus at around $2500 to go up the trunk. Are they even available in the shops here? Nope.

Work cover is about safety, AS4373 is about tree care, and spikes win the safety argument over other methods except EWP. Besides, name me one prosecution over spiking trees.

I also have attached a copy of the wording, and the wording is SHOULD BE AVOIDED not shall not be used

justoon · 7th May 2007, 08:09 PM

Ekka,the discussion we are about to get into could be drawn out by solicitors for months over the meaning of words.You and i both know that an ewp is preferable were access is available but where it is not and there is no other way to access the head then it will be back to traditional methods until alternitive access equipment is developed.Who knows it may get as silly as having to erect scaffold around the palm to get access.Dont laugh it happened in the construction game.

justoon · 7th May 2007, 08:17 PM

Oh and you are correct to my knowledge there has been no prosecutions relating to spiking palms YET, thats not to say that it wont happen sometime in the future.

Ekka · 8th May 2007, 01:33 AM

I write it on my quotes like this.

Palms will be spur climbed to access crown. $275
Palms will be accessed with EWP. $495

Let them decide, and obviously you can use many hybrids in the above example.

Fear not of lawyers, it would have to be a civil litigation case and I have insurance ... stop worrying about these shiny asses with their may, should, possible, could, wording ... it's their job to make us fear what could be possible but if it's written in the quote and accepted it's a shut case.

Remember, 90% of the time it's a cocos palm here anyway. But I wouldn't spike say a Cuban to clean it etc ... your common sense prevails as an arborist to.

justoon · 8th May 2007, 05:34 PM

Ekka, it is not the client that i worry about, they will accept a quote from you to do a job, not how ( sort of as long as the work is of good standard ).The opinon I was trying to portray was if a person was injured whilst in the tree wearing spurs/spikes and the subsequent investigations following.

Ekka · 8th May 2007, 10:19 PM

But AS4373 has ZERO to do with OHS, just remember that.

justoon · 9th May 2007, 10:05 PM

I agree with what you are saying,but lets see what starts to happen after 12months when councils and body corps start to call for tenders for their palm maintanence to the new standard and work practices start to change.If Im wrong Ill buy you a carton of your favourite amber fluid.

JohN Dee · 10th May 2007, 02:12 AM

Any one *cough Sean* have the PDF for the 4373 2007 A.S Pruning of amenity trees?

Ekka · 10th May 2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justoon

I agree with what you are saying,but lets see what starts to happen after 12months when councils and body corps start to call for tenders for their palm maintanence to the new standard and work practices start to change.If Im wrong Ill buy you a carton of your favourite amber fluid.

They'll still have to stipulate as the standard doesn't mandate no spikes, give 2 prices to cover ya ass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

Any one *cough Sean* have the PDF for the 4373 2007 A.S Pruning of amenity trees?

Australian Standards of Pruning 2006 draft

3rd May 2007, 10:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
justoon Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boyne Island Posts: 63	New updated Australian Standard Ok guys the A.S. 4373 1996 PRUNING OF AMENITY TREES has now been updated to incorperate the draft proceedure discussed on this forum.The new A.S. is 4373 2007 and was introduced on the 31st March this year.Now i have only just downloaded it but the new standard looks exactly the same as the draft.

3rd May 2007, 10:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Yep, and tomorrow I'll be spike climbing some palms to clean them. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th May 2007, 01:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	I write it on my quotes like this. Palms will be spur climbed to access crown. $275 Palms will be accessed with EWP. $495 Let them decide, and obviously you can use many hybrids in the above example. Fear not of lawyers, it would have to be a civil litigation case and I have insurance ... stop worrying about these shiny asses with their may, should, possible, could, wording ... it's their job to make us fear what could be possible but if it's written in the quote and accepted it's a shut case. Remember, 90% of the time it's a cocos palm here anyway. But I wouldn't spike say a Cuban to clean it etc ... your common sense prevails as an arborist to. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th May 2007, 10:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	But AS4373 has ZERO to do with OHS, just remember that. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

10th May 2007, 02:12 AM	#11 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 751	Any one cough Sean have the PDF for the 4373 2007 A.S Pruning of amenity trees? __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

7th May 2007, 05:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
justoon Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boyne Island Posts: 63	Eric thats nice. Now please understand that i am not going to get snarky BUT you know as well as i do as soon as someone F***s up and gets hurt using spikes on palms, Workcover is going to come in and say why were you not following work practises as set out in the standard?? this will then lead to absolute mountains of paperwork and extreme headaches,nashing of teeth and tearing of hair,with no-one to blame but ourselves and more than likely a fine of some sort.I dont want to be a wet blanket but it is the truth.

7th May 2007, 08:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
justoon Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boyne Island Posts: 63	Ekka,the discussion we are about to get into could be drawn out by solicitors for months over the meaning of words.You and i both know that an ewp is preferable were access is available but where it is not and there is no other way to access the head then it will be back to traditional methods until alternitive access equipment is developed.Who knows it may get as silly as having to erect scaffold around the palm to get access.Dont laugh it happened in the construction game.

7th May 2007, 08:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
justoon Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boyne Island Posts: 63	Oh and you are correct to my knowledge there has been no prosecutions relating to spiking palms YET, thats not to say that it wont happen sometime in the future.

8th May 2007, 05:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
justoon Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boyne Island Posts: 63	Ekka, it is not the client that i worry about, they will accept a quote from you to do a job, not how ( sort of as long as the work is of good standard ).The opinon I was trying to portray was if a person was injured whilst in the tree wearing spurs/spikes and the subsequent investigations following.

9th May 2007, 10:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
justoon Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boyne Island Posts: 63	I agree with what you are saying,but lets see what starts to happen after 12months when councils and body corps start to call for tenders for their palm maintanence to the new standard and work practices start to change.If Im wrong Ill buy you a carton of your favourite amber fluid.

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