Ignorance is Contagious| Critical Thinking| Mob mentalities

Eric Frei · 8th February 2009, 01:13 PM

Covers many basis.

I have often said that I don't like extremists, you know ... on one hand save the trees on the other cut them down. I'll often debate the opposing point of view purely due to what I see as an unbalanced point of view.

Written by Dr Ian Woodward (Environmental Scientist in Australia) in 2008 I'm sure if you took the 5minutes out to read this you'll be nodding your head agreeing.

Read some of the Top Logical Fallacies and see if you succumb to any.

Over time I have witnessed and felt the heroism of cutting a tree down to the vilification of such. 20 years ago you were a hero, now a days some try to paint you as the devil.

I have worked with developers and councils on sites with trees, and again the vilification of these developers is so narrow minded it boggles me, on the other hand public scream about house prices and availability.

I have been on sites adjacent to large normal cleared house blocks where residents live with few trees, yet they complain to councils and lodge all types of complaints, like noise, dust, mud, start times etc. Yet they live in a place that had the same happening to it a while back.

Read this PDF, start to see things for what they are, become a critical thinker and expand your scope on the world, I encourage it.

Quote:

Ad hominem (attacking the person) An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to
counter anothers claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing
the argument itself. True believers will often commit this fallacy by countering the
arguments of skeptics by stating that skeptics are closed minded. Skeptics, on the other
hand, may fall into the trap of dismissing the claims of UFO believers, for example, by
stating that people who believe in UFO's are crazy or stupid.

JayD · 8th February 2009, 03:34 PM

This paper is a good read, it made me start to think about the way I go about things.

...Mobs are nothing but pure uglyness.

hanging from a rope · 9th February 2009, 12:22 AM

save the world,well in the states we call those people greenie wachos or idiots,it's to easy to follow the crowd,thats why enviromentalists can get everyone behind them they just use a scare tactic not the truth

newguy18 · 9th February 2009, 01:12 AM

Very good read,i can see certain people reading it and going"i'm not like that".

kauriman · 7th March 2009, 07:15 PM

Interesting article. Particually the fallacies at the end.

Funny though that for an article with a theme of "critcal thinking" the text is composed of almost entirely opinion, very few facts and even a touch of emotive language.

gawd · 7th January 2010, 08:45 PM

I normally tell them-

- u tree hugging

-with beautifully pollished floor boards in ur house ,timber furniture- IF U LOVE THIS TREE SO MUCH - I CAN TRANSPLANT IT INTO UR YARD-4 A PRICE (THEY NORMALLY GO HOME ) funny there never seems to be any large trees on their block

gawd · 7th January 2010, 10:03 PM

Kauriman, nothing personal , but I think u have taken this thread the wrong way . I dont think (could be wrong- wouldnt be the 1st time) but I believe the guy,s girl,s where referring to or about neighbors complaining about trees etc being removed - after they them selves have -been guilty off doing the same themselves- but all of a sudden the local trees on the block up the rd shouldnt be touched (after they - themself have wiped everything out on their own blocks )give these people a price to transplant said tree to thier block ? never had one take me up on that ,all of a sudden they have to go home ,and polish the jarrah floorboards

Eric Frei · 29th March 2010, 09:31 PM

Also here's a great read.

Edge: BEWARE THE ONLINE COLLECTIVE By Jaron Lanier

Quote:

What's to stop an online mass of anonymous but connected people from suddenly turning into a mean mob, just like masses of people have time and time again in the history of every human culture? It's amazing that details in the design of online software can bring out such varied potentials in human behavior. It's time to think about that power on a moral basis.

BEWARE THE ONLINE COLLECTIVE

(JARON LANIER

It's funny being an "old timer" in the world of the Internet. About six years ago, when I was 40 years old, a Stanford freshman said to me, "Wow Jaron Lanier—you're still alive?" If there's any use to sticking around for the long haul — as computers get so much more powerful that every couple of years our assumptions about what they can do have to be replaced — it might be in noticing patterns or principles that may not be so apparent to the latest hundred million kids who have just arrived online.

There's one observation of mine, about a potential danger, that has caused quite a ruckus in the last half-year. I wrote about it initially in an essay called "Digital Maoism."

Here's the idea in a nutshell: Let's start with an observation about the whole of human history, predating computers. People have often been willing to give up personal identity and join into a collective. Historically, that propensity has usually been very bad news. Collectives tend to be mean, to designate official enemies, to be violent, and to discourage creative, rigorous thought. Fascists, communists, religious cults, criminal "families" — there has been no end to the varieties of human collectives, but it seems to me that these examples have quite a lot in common. I wonder if some aspect of human nature evolved in the context of competing packs. We might be genetically wired to be vulnerable to the lure of the mob.

One of the most wonderful things about the rise of the Web and other Internet-based communication schemes is how anti-mob they have been. I was in heaven 10 years ago watching millions of people build web sites for the first time as a form of expression. I'm just as excited today when I run across a creative web page, Myspace site, YouTube video or whatever. There are zillions of people out there who are developing themselves, reaching out to others, becoming more creative, better educated, and richer than they otherwise would have been. My personal favorite of the current batch of fast growing sites might be Second Life, where people create avatars of themselves to share in a virtual world. Bravo!

In the last few years, though, a new twist has appeared. Along with all the sites that encourage individual expression, we are seeing a flood of schemes that celebrate collective action by huge numbers of bland, anonymous people. A lot of folks love this stuff. My worry is that we're playing with fire.

There are a lot of recent examples of collectivity online. There's the Wikipedia, which has absorbed a lot of the energy that used to go into individual, expressive websites, into one bland, master description of reality. Another example is the automatic mass-content collecting schemes like DIGG. Yet another, which deserves special attention, is the unfortunate design feature in most blog software that practically encourages spontaneous pseudonym creation. That has led to the global flood of anonymous mob-like commentary.

I remember the first time I noticed myself becoming mean when I left an anonymous comment on a blog. What is it about that situation that seems to bring out the worst in people so often? It's a shame, because the benefits of blogs (such as that citizen journalists can pool resources to do research that otherwise might not get done) get cancelled out. Blogs often lead to such divisiveness that people end up caring more about clan membership than truth after a while.

There's a pattern in recent online businesses that is sometimes called Web 2.0 that I think is distinct from the collectivity problem, but for some reason seems to be leading a lot of entrepreneurs into promoting collectives.

The Web 2.0 notion is that an entrepreneur comes up with some scheme that attracts huge numbers of people to participate in an activity online — like the video sharing on YouTube, for instance. Then you can "monetize" at an astronomical level by offering a way to bring ads or online purchasing to people in your gigantic crowd of participants. What is amazing about this idea is that the people are the value — and they also pay for the value they provide instead of being paid for it. For instance, when you buy something that is advertized, part of the price goes to the ads — but in the new online world, you yourself were the bait for the ad you saw. The whole cycle is remarkably efficient and concentrates giant fortunes faster than any other business scheme in history.

So what's wrong with this pretty picture? All too many entrepreneurs seem to think that if you reduce the human element, the scheme will become more efficient. Instead of asking people to create videos or avatars, which require creativity and commitment, just watch their clicks, have them take surveys, have them tweak collective works, add anonymous, unconsidered remarks, etc. This trend is lousy, in my opinion, because it encourages people to lose themsleves into groupthink.

What's to stop an online mass of anonymous but connected people from suddenly turning into a mean mob, just like masses of people have time and time again in the history of every human culture? It's amazing that details in the design of online software can bring out such varied potentials in human behavior. It's time to think about that power on a moral basis.

chrisingham · 1st April 2010, 01:03 PM

Interesting read, thanks for sharing. Off to pass it on

sueann · 1st April 2010, 05:13 PM

The internet is not the only place this happens, the mob mentality thing - the media is pretty good at it as well.

I hate the way the papers and magazines pry into people's lives, it's not news, it's gutter trash.

8th February 2009, 03:34 PM	#2
JayD Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 1,643	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities This paper is a good read, it made me start to think about the way I go about things....Mobs are nothing but pure uglyness. __________________ Level 4 Arborist/ FPIFGM 3204A: Fall trees manually (intermediate) Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

9th February 2009, 12:22 AM	#3
hanging from a rope Sappling Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: new york Posts: 29	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities save the world,well in the states we call those people greenie wachos or idiots,it's to easy to follow the crowd,thats why enviromentalists can get everyone behind them they just use a scare tactic not the truth

9th February 2009, 01:12 AM	#4
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,206	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities Very good read,i can see certain people reading it and going"i'm not like that". __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

7th March 2009, 07:15 PM	#5
kauriman Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NZ Posts: 54	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities Interesting article. Particually the fallacies at the end. Funny though that for an article with a theme of "critcal thinking" the text is composed of almost entirely opinion, very few facts and even a touch of emotive language.

7th January 2010, 08:45 PM	#6
gawd Former Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: perth wa Posts: 27	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities I normally tell them-- u tree hugging-with beautifully pollished floor boards in ur house ,timber furniture- IF U LOVE THIS TREE SO MUCH - I CAN TRANSPLANT IT INTO UR YARD-4 A PRICE (THEY NORMALLY GO HOME ) funny there never seems to be any large trees on their block

7th January 2010, 10:03 PM	#7
gawd Former Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: perth wa Posts: 27	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities Kauriman, nothing personal , but I think u have taken this thread the wrong way . I dont think (could be wrong- wouldnt be the 1st time) but I believe the guy,s girl,s where referring to or about neighbors complaining about trees etc being removed - after they them selves have -been guilty off doing the same themselves- but all of a sudden the local trees on the block up the rd shouldnt be touched (after they - themself have wiped everything out on their own blocks )give these people a price to transplant said tree to thier block ? never had one take me up on that ,all of a sudden they have to go home ,and polish the jarrah floorboards

1st April 2010, 01:03 PM	#9
chrisingham Former Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London Posts: 28	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities Interesting read, thanks for sharing. Off to pass it on

1st April 2010, 05:13 PM	#10
sueann Former Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Australia Posts: 640	Re: Ignorance is Contagious\| Critical Thinking\| Mob mentalities The internet is not the only place this happens, the mob mentality thing - the media is pretty good at it as well. I hate the way the papers and magazines pry into people's lives, it's not news, it's gutter trash.

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