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| | #1 | |
| Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,775
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Test was done by Yates. Chunky mulch is that defined as no pieces being able to go through a screen with 5mm holes. Mulch - Chunky v Fine - Sustainable Gardening Australia The reason is that a chunky wood mulch allows the soil to breathe, allows water to easily penetrate through to the soil and doesn't wick moisture from the soil. It's the mulches job to reduce evaporation, shade the soil, suppress weeds, allow air circulation (as roots and soil need it) and decompose to add organic matter to the soil. 2007 PDF attached Dr. Linda Chalker-Scott Associate Professor and Extension Urban Horticulturist WSU Puyallup Research and Extension Center Quote:
__________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld ![]() My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping | Stump Grinding Brisbane | Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist | Project Arborist Last edited by Eric Frei; 1st February 2009 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Added PDF | |
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| | #2 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 294
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The ISA Journal of Arboriculture published an article some years ago rating mulches by nutrient value. Chipped limbs, twigs and leaves came in at the top. Barks at the bottom. Pure live wood chipped was somewhere in the middle.
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| | #3 |
| Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 17
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That is great information! Think of it guys. This makes the mulch we generate from chipping more marketable if this information was known to the public. Shoot! Lot's of us tree guys give this stuff away, but it sounds like we should be $elling more of it.
__________________ "Quality costs as much as it saves." My great uncle Simon Murphy |
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| | #4 |
| PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 2,129
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It gets even better, Shigo used to say that someone would get very rich one day by sepersting their mulch into piles by species of tree chipped, so you'd have a pin oak pile, a live oak pile, a beech pile etc... Making sure that your mulch was free from rubbish and fungal pathogens (ie any tree felled due to fungi wouldn't go into the pile) This mulch is then what is spread, vertically mulched ets around trees of that species. The leaves bark and wood tissues are covered in the very spores and micro-organisms that form symbiotic relationships with that species of tree, it is how the soil food web continually re-inoculates itself in nature. Its a recognised practice in the management of veteran trees to use mulch of the same species to maintain and improve the vitality of the soil/root environment the rhizosphere. If you have a tree that you're caring for, veteran or not and you want to give it a boost without all the negative impacts of modern Nitrogen Ferts, than this is the way to go. Combined with decompaction its brilliant for trees, and results are visible for the client. SF |
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| | #5 |
| Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 17
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Great point
__________________ "Quality costs as much as it saves." My great uncle Simon Murphy |
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| | #6 |
| Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia
Posts: 1,378
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I keep all red gum and certain other types of gum for myself,heres a pile of "sugar gum"mulch. Having mulch sales can be a p.i.t.a in organising and timeframes of delivery but adds some good $$$$ on big chipping jobs,better of getting a $$$ than dumping it.
__________________ Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland |
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| | #7 |
| PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 2,129
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Thats a great looking pile...best super fund around IMO SF |
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| | #8 |
| Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,775
| Bingo, still best to let it age though to prevent nitrogen leeching, however nothing wrong with throwing some organic fert down prior to mulching if fresh. (blood/bone, dynamic lifter etc)
__________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld ![]() My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping | Stump Grinding Brisbane | Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist | Project Arborist |
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| | #9 |
| Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 17
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I have an 1.5 acres and I live on a county road. I have good visibility and planty of space to dump it. Currently I give away all of my firewood in exchange of referrals. I used to burn my brush, but now I chip it all. That is why I have been considering selling mulch. As for the firewood: I think I will start to only sell hard woods and give away crappy firewood. Or, should I say, less desirable firewood? Folks out here don't like Cottonwood. And unfortuanetly Cottowoods tree removals are about 7 out of 10 for my business.
__________________ "Quality costs as much as it saves." My great uncle Simon Murphy |
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| | #10 |
| Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,775
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The price of most mulches here varies around $55m3 and most tree guys are selling there's for $10m3 ... darned joke really but it isn't aged. The only thing you'll need to figure out is how you load your truck again once you have piles of it sitting around.
__________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld ![]() My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping | Stump Grinding Brisbane | Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist | Project Arborist |
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| | #11 |
| Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia
Posts: 1,378
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I think 10m3 isnt that bad as i does shrink down to about1/3 its the free delivery that can be the killer i add a little on if its going more than 10ks
__________________ Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland |
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| | #12 |
| former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills
Posts: 37
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Hi , it's a constant thing for us also getting rid of mulch, it is amazing how many people ring and want mulch deliveires but it is just not economically viable for us to do that, I was glad to hear what you said boa about mulch from the tree being pruned is best to go under that tree, I am often tryinng to talk our customers into keeping their mulch and explaining why it is so good for their trees, now I have a scientific explanation, so thanks. also it really gives your garden an instant face lift. It's ironic that often the best thing for trees is the cheapest.That is mulch, water, space mulch and leave them alone. |
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| | #13 |
| former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills
Posts: 37
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My spelling is terrible early in the morning, he, he, he |
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| | #14 |
| Former Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 410
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We have Douglas fir bark mulch that's chunky with fines, and then there is the chunkies of various size nuggets. The two don't look good blended at all. The nuggets are a horror story for fall leaf cleanup. So the finer multitexture usually wins. So we need to switch between the choices depending on maintenance and customer preference. Around here, either one performs very well for local needs, considering our weather. That table on the page is a nice tool. A printout of it could be handy to carry along. Drouin's page may be a bit innacurate. Its accurate from the angle at which its presented. Some of the mulch that it speaks "less" of, is actually better for certain purposes, and the wood mulch better and worse for other purposes. I've used most mulches extensively, even personally, and found benefits to each of them. It may boil down to why people are mulching. The nutrient part may not be relevent if nutrition is not needed. The Online Forums that offers articles for CEU credits, ran an article not long ago, indicating that mulches don't draw nutrients up from the soil. So it may depend on if the mulch is for topdressing, or incorporating. For incorporation and mixing, I've found that the finest mulches of all (not bark) improve soil the fastes and the best. Some country clubs have purposely used bark in golf greens mixtures, because the type they used decomposed more slowly. And that was what they were hoping for. The main negative I've seen from a mulch, is when ultrafine bark mulch gets compacted and crusted on top. It can almost be knocked on. I'd imagine that it really repels water, and may slow down gas exchange significantly. Thats one thing that the chunks have going for them - breathing. |
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| | #15 | |
| Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,775
| Quote:
It's been long said that some mulches draw N out of the soil sending plants yellow, I'd say you've heard that too so it's a myth?! Are you also saying that mulching isn't always done for plants to benefit but rather to just cover the ground for other reasons? Also, would you like to re-write Drouin's mulch page, that's Jason's website. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.
__________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld ![]() My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping | Stump Grinding Brisbane | Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist | Project Arborist | |
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| | #16 |
| Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia
Posts: 1,378
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If Mario wants to edit my sites mulching section thats fine by me as long as its still aimed at sales!sold a few loads of cypress pine today buyer was putting it around his fruit trees i told him it will really give them a good acid hit!!!!LMAO Most of the chips IMO are good.I have palonia,hakia,melalueca popping up around my yard from the chips.I have dumped a load of blackwood on a customer and he was very happy that sapplings were springing up!im waiting for the day the boots on the other foot!
__________________ Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland |
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| | #17 |
| Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 1,499
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[QUOTE=Ekka;1756] most tree guys are selling there's for $10m3 ... darned joke really but it isn't aged.QUOTE] Well i reckon i've given away FREE about $250,000 worth of mulch over the last 10 years then. And if we could move it at the $55m3 the garden supplies want for it ![]() I think i need to have a lie down...........and rethink getting a bigger yard to stockpile and sell it from. |
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| | #18 |
| Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia
Posts: 1,378
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For sure trev,a freind of mine stockpiles and gets $50 for a 6x4 trailer.
__________________ Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland |
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| | #19 | |
| PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 2,129
| Quote:
Most good advice in regards to woodchip mulch makes mention of the desire to apply composted, aged or organically enriched chip if the client has concerns about the impact (however temporary) that Nitrogen draw down will have. Quality issues RO products mulch.pdf Sean | |
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| | #20 |
| Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia
Posts: 1,378
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Boa how do you find all these pdf files! you must have nearly every tree related pdf going!!!LMAO
__________________ Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland |
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| | #21 |
| PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 2,129
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Its a sad story of a bloke who writes reports late into the evenings, gets very bored around midnight and trawls the internet for tree related topics that grab his interest. Consequently my laptop is crammed full of files relating to any tree topic you care to pick (literally thousands of them I kid you not) I send info to Arb mates in Brissy and Gold Coast when they ask to save them having to search around for the stuff. To be honest I'm always pretty glad when someone can make use of some of it..kind of justifies the late night reading and storage thing.. Sean |
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| | #22 |
| Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia
Posts: 1,378
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Cool
__________________ Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland |
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| | #23 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 294
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| | #24 |
| Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,775
|
Boa Many times I run into these situations but refuse to pay the money for the info as you cant see it first and know if it's any good. http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/SR9930131.htm That PDF you put up was great. The application of mulch is the trigger to the micro-organisms that draw the N, the type of mulch used determines the level of draw down, an aged highly enriched mulch will have less impact upon the N soil levels than a fresh wood chip. I have always suggested to clients they spread a little organic dynamic lifter/blood bone, water, then mulch over the top to help the process along and protect against the N draw down. But aged mulch reduces that N draw down a lot, so if you chipping guys can perhaps store the stuff for a while it gets better.
__________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld ![]() My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping | Stump Grinding Brisbane | Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist | Project Arborist |
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| | #25 |
| PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 2,129
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Verifying the info you find on the net is a serious problem, and as you say with more and more sites like Springer and Blackwell charging you before showing more than a very precursary abstract it can get expensive. Cross referencing published work with other peer reviewed published papers is the only thing anyone can do. Anything that comes strngly from left field and seems to run counter to what your intuition tells you demands careful study before you accept it. As we all know using the net as the sole source for any info is a bad idea, and insane when your dealing with issues of safety (ie how should I tie knot X) But it's a great source for info from other parts of the world that we would never/rarely ever see otherwise. Some sites represent organisations that by their own structure are reliable and deliberately set up to provide high quality info USFD Urban Forestry sites are amongst the best, as are numerous regional centres for UF research in the US, many of the larger Arboretums run excellent sites, as does CSIRO and CRC. |
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| | #26 |
| Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Location: VERMONT
Posts: 23
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okay nowe i'm thinkin!!instead of tryin to pawn off my bucket truck full of chips as fill someone i think i'll stockpile it and turn it into$$$ hope all are well DRANO
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| | #27 |
| Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Location: VERMONT
Posts: 23
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| | #28 |
| I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New jersey, USA
Posts: 2
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Anyone in the world who's interested in the subject of mulch should visit www.caputorecycling.com for quite a bit of info. Anyone in Northern New Jersey should check out the site for their services, products and prices.
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| | #29 |
| PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 2,129
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Just a couple of pics that may be of use to others providing info on mulch benefits and application. ![]() |
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| | #30 |
| Former Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia
Posts: 242
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Nitrogen drawdown.??? ...If air is 78.1% Nitrogen ... why does mulch (which lays on the surface) supposedly affect soil nitrogen. Sure....if there is "hot" soil-mix added I get it ...or if mulch is incorporated into the soil... Clearly there would be (physical) contact with soil air ...& not so much with atmospheric air....and I see why the nitrogen conversion pathway would deplete soil nitrogen...albeit temporarily. Why would soil air (N) be depleted by mulching... when there are zillons of free molecules just floating around above??? Never, ever seen it happen! and been mulching gardens for 20+ years. (PS Got my Scientist hat on today) Mulch = BEER money for the crew |
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