Anti Topping Campaign

TrevMcRev · 4th September 2007, 03:40 AM

Found this link. Good to see a community investing in educating the public.

http://www.mocommunitytrees.com/imag...aign_in_MO.ppt

5.4mb powerpoint file

Also I manually uploaded the file http://www.treeworld.info/manualuplo...ngcampaign.ppt

Ekka · 4th September 2007, 04:10 AM

Love it, especially point 3 which has now been adopted in the new AS4373 2007! Fancy that.

Here you go.

Quote:

7.3.5 Remedial (restorative) pruning (H)

This type of pruning shall only be carried out on trees which have lost their natural form and structure through storm damage, mechanical damage, vandalism, lopping, dieback or disease. This method is usually only used when all other approaches have failed and replacing the tree is difficult. The purpose of this pruning is to prolong the useful life expectancy of such trees and to reduce their hazard potential.

This type of pruning removes damaged, diseased or lopped branches back to undamaged or healthy tissue. The final cut may not necessarily be at the branch collar. The aim is to induce the production of epicormic shoots from which a new crown is intended to be established. To achieve this, regrowth should be managed by reduction pruning or crown thinning.

NOTES:
1 This type of pruning should be done in several stages in an attempt to induce stable and successful regrowth.
2 Consideration should be given to removing dangerous trees.
3 Remedial pruning may create hazards from weak branch attachment. Trees should be carefully monitored.

newguy18 · 4th September 2007, 02:12 PM

I couldn't upload the file but I was always told that topping is bad and I will continue to believe it is bad.

groundpounder · 4th September 2007, 04:20 PM

Item 1 is a near impossibility, item 3 is a sure thing, so I vote for item 2.
Does it make it all better if you call it "pollarding"?

Quintrex · 5th September 2007, 12:29 AM

Couldn't open it!

Ekka · 5th September 2007, 01:02 AM

To open it you must have Microsoft PowerPoint, it's a ppt file.

JohN Dee · 6th September 2007, 04:08 AM

Nice little slideshow. Pity it doesn't get distributed enough... *Awaits the Tree World version*

Ekka · 6th September 2007, 04:26 AM

Yes, was a well kept secret and good find.

Well presented and straight forward.

How do you suggest we can make it available? In what form?

treefeller · 9th September 2007, 03:59 PM

Hmmm, theyll have a field day over here as we pollard all the time, i agree with number 2 tho. We only pollard as the trees outgrow their positions, ie, near houses, on streets so have to be constantly maintained.

Ekka · 9th September 2007, 07:21 PM

But pollarding generally commences from a younger age ... in other words you dont go whacking some 100 year old tree in half do you? You know, big 12" dia limbs cut through etc.

And species would have to influence matters too.

Anyway, can you UK guys get some detailed pics up, I like to see what goes on.

The picture below shows a close up of what is not pollarding.

treefeller · 9th September 2007, 10:27 PM

Will do, weve got loads of pollarding at the mo, so ill get some pics up

treekiwi · 14th November 2007, 12:39 PM

Define "Pollarding' : A tree whose top branches have been cut back to the trunk so that it may produce a dense growth of new shoots. (dictionary.com).

What is the difference between topping and 'drop crotching'. These are questions that should be answered when looking at this....

Why am i topping or 'drop crotching this tree?

Little old lady likes her 'sun' and this is how her husband did it, could you suggest a thin or canopy lift?

its been done before by a hacker about 5 years ago and the epicormic shoots arent strong and it becomes a hazard?

I believe topping is bad, but drop crotching is an exceptable arboricultural method? it still removes height and apical dominance from the tree,

What is your guys take on this?

bigshea13 · 14th November 2007, 01:38 PM

hands down the end result of topping a tree always looks bad. especially decidous ones after fall and before spring....over half the year. however my opinion is that there are several legit reasons to top.
1 the full crown can no longer be supported by the base and cabeling is not an option yet the owner insists the tree must stay no matter what.
2 its an evergreen growing in a utility right of way{because the trees would ordinarily be removed totally but a topped evergreen continues to grow and takes on the role of a "wolf" tree shading out lower vegitation. this would be benificial in this context.
3 after a severe storm {wind,rain.snow,ice,ect} many trees sustain substial physical damage..especially to the upper portions. many times after a heavy ice storm, a tree that may have multiple tops becomes weighted down and they tear apart like polio string cheese. some small fissures can be repaired but one can only do so much. in this case ive found that usually if a potion of the crown is removed, relieving crutial weight from the fissure below. this allows a tree that might otherwise be removed to continue to exist.

im not defending topping ...but...if i just flat out removed every ice and snow damaged tree a customer wanted me to half my town would look like farmland. sometimes money is also and issue.yeah i known some of you think thats a piss poor excuse so to you i say ," start sending me cash and it may change my mind."

Ekka · 15th November 2007, 02:09 AM

bigshea13

Do you know of a chap called Treeseer (Guy Meilleur)?

He'll love you for that post. Has written many articles and is an advocate of nodal pruning ice/storm damaged trees. The reason is like you said, if you were to target cut nothing would be left, removal is not an option so you cut back to nodes.

Now, I argue a little with him coz we don't have snow/ice damaged trees here and nodes are like fools gold ... not every punter knows the real deal if there's any deal at all. On many eucs I struggle to see nodes, in fact, since my merry association with this "Guy" I have tried a few experiments and cut back to what I thought was a node and frankly ... I embarrassed coz all I've got is some stubbed epicormic abomination!

So perhaps location and species dependant and will always be a good debate. I'm in the dont top it basket however some trees do self destruct and many many mature trees get naturally topped by nature.

It's hard to convince Mary Smith to not top her gum tree when many have had their mature tops blown out. Again I say this knowing not all tops blow out and many a mature tree stands in tact, however when your home is nearby nobody wants to experiment but would rather be assured that it's safe ... hence the toppers come along and spin the yarn that topping makes the tree safer.

Then you have academic and scientific reasoning, even from the likes of Mattheck and Brudi who all suggest shorter trees are safer trees. (Derr!)

Short fat trees less likely to blow over or have blow outs!

So the reduction pruners are in on this, difference being reduction pruning is to target and minimizes any regrowth unlike topping.

Our quest I suppose as arborists is to find that balance of acceptable risk and safety ... so in my mind topping is not the answer due to the ongoing growing risk. Pollarding could be argued as the "in between" ground but again means maintenance and risk if left unattended. Nodal pruning again means risk if left unattended due to regrowth.

However, some are willing to continue the maintenance and pollard or retop or hedge or restore a crown from shoots. But where does this take place? Mainly in controlled areas like govt owned, streets/roadside, parks etc ... not Mary's backyard where she wont have you back coz there's a 60" plasma screen coming out!

treeseer · 16th November 2007, 06:32 PM

Eric that was a unique misspelling of my name, congrats. I wish I could help you with nodes and eucs;m someday.

attached is the article from 2003 when it was a sketchy proposition. Now there is no one in the usa I know of who disagrees. There were some notable holdouts but no more.
i hope to have a piece in the arb journal next year--o that's right eric, you're not a member, well maybe someone will link you to the archive.

o and the state of missouri did a good job at the time with that campaign. It needs some revision to stay current, but still good to get that word out. I'll be presenting there next march; hope to meet the folks who put it together. the isa conference will be in that state next july, come on over guys!

newguy18 · 16th November 2007, 08:14 PM

A bit off topic here but the line clearance guys here aren't manualy removing limbs and tops off of trees
but instead the are spraying a chemical that i was told was a bud inhibator.Its suppose to stop budding on any tree it contacts.Does anyone else have this happening in your area?

4th September 2007, 03:40 AM	#1 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 672	Anti Topping Campaign Found this link. Good to see a community investing in educating the public. http://www.mocommunitytrees.com/imag...aign_in_MO.ppt 5.4mb powerpoint file Also I manually uploaded the file http://www.treeworld.info/manualuplo...ngcampaign.ppt __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal Last edited by Ekka : 6th September 2007 at 02:05 AM. Reason: file size awareness + manual upload to our server

4th September 2007, 02:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,192	Re: Anti Topping Campaign I couldn't upload the file but I was always told that topping is bad and I will continue to believe it is bad. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

4th September 2007, 04:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
groundpounder Gettin' motoring Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Centennial Co. Posts: 21	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Item 1 is a near impossibility, item 3 is a sure thing, so I vote for item 2. Does it make it all better if you call it "pollarding"?

5th September 2007, 12:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
Quintrex Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 414	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Couldn't open it!

5th September 2007, 01:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Anti Topping Campaign To open it you must have Microsoft PowerPoint, it's a ppt file. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

6th September 2007, 04:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
JohN Dee Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 679	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Nice little slideshow. Pity it doesn't get distributed enough... Awaits the Tree World version __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

6th September 2007, 04:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Yes, was a well kept secret and good find. Well presented and straight forward. How do you suggest we can make it available? In what form? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

9th September 2007, 03:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
treefeller Cruisin' Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cheshunt Posts: 86	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Hmmm, theyll have a field day over here as we pollard all the time, i agree with number 2 tho. We only pollard as the trees outgrow their positions, ie, near houses, on streets so have to be constantly maintained. __________________ Copper Beech Tree Works Hertfordshire www.copperbeechtreeworks.sampasite.com

9th September 2007, 10:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
treefeller Cruisin' Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cheshunt Posts: 86	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Will do, weve got loads of pollarding at the mo, so ill get some pics up __________________ Copper Beech Tree Works Hertfordshire www.copperbeechtreeworks.sampasite.com

14th November 2007, 12:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
treekiwi Cruisin' Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 85	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Define "Pollarding' : A tree whose top branches have been cut back to the trunk so that it may produce a dense growth of new shoots. (dictionary.com). What is the difference between topping and 'drop crotching'. These are questions that should be answered when looking at this.... Why am i topping or 'drop crotching this tree? Little old lady likes her 'sun' and this is how her husband did it, could you suggest a thin or canopy lift? its been done before by a hacker about 5 years ago and the epicormic shoots arent strong and it becomes a hazard? I believe topping is bad, but drop crotching is an exceptable arboricultural method? it still removes height and apical dominance from the tree, What is your guys take on this?

14th November 2007, 01:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
bigshea13 Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 388	Re: Anti Topping Campaign hands down the end result of topping a tree always looks bad. especially decidous ones after fall and before spring....over half the year. however my opinion is that there are several legit reasons to top. 1 the full crown can no longer be supported by the base and cabeling is not an option yet the owner insists the tree must stay no matter what. 2 its an evergreen growing in a utility right of way{because the trees would ordinarily be removed totally but a topped evergreen continues to grow and takes on the role of a "wolf" tree shading out lower vegitation. this would be benificial in this context. 3 after a severe storm {wind,rain.snow,ice,ect} many trees sustain substial physical damage..especially to the upper portions. many times after a heavy ice storm, a tree that may have multiple tops becomes weighted down and they tear apart like polio string cheese. some small fissures can be repaired but one can only do so much. in this case ive found that usually if a potion of the crown is removed, relieving crutial weight from the fissure below. this allows a tree that might otherwise be removed to continue to exist. im not defending topping ...but...if i just flat out removed every ice and snow damaged tree a customer wanted me to half my town would look like farmland. sometimes money is also and issue.yeah i known some of you think thats a piss poor excuse so to you i say ," start sending me cash and it may change my mind."

15th November 2007, 02:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Anti Topping Campaign bigshea13 Do you know of a chap called Treeseer (Guy Meilleur)? He'll love you for that post. Has written many articles and is an advocate of nodal pruning ice/storm damaged trees. The reason is like you said, if you were to target cut nothing would be left, removal is not an option so you cut back to nodes. Now, I argue a little with him coz we don't have snow/ice damaged trees here and nodes are like fools gold ... not every punter knows the real deal if there's any deal at all. On many eucs I struggle to see nodes, in fact, since my merry association with this "Guy" I have tried a few experiments and cut back to what I thought was a node and frankly ... I embarrassed coz all I've got is some stubbed epicormic abomination! So perhaps location and species dependant and will always be a good debate. I'm in the dont top it basket however some trees do self destruct and many many mature trees get naturally topped by nature. It's hard to convince Mary Smith to not top her gum tree when many have had their mature tops blown out. Again I say this knowing not all tops blow out and many a mature tree stands in tact, however when your home is nearby nobody wants to experiment but would rather be assured that it's safe ... hence the toppers come along and spin the yarn that topping makes the tree safer. Then you have academic and scientific reasoning, even from the likes of Mattheck and Brudi who all suggest shorter trees are safer trees. (Derr!) Short fat trees less likely to blow over or have blow outs! So the reduction pruners are in on this, difference being reduction pruning is to target and minimizes any regrowth unlike topping. Our quest I suppose as arborists is to find that balance of acceptable risk and safety ... so in my mind topping is not the answer due to the ongoing growing risk. Pollarding could be argued as the "in between" ground but again means maintenance and risk if left unattended. Nodal pruning again means risk if left unattended due to regrowth. However, some are willing to continue the maintenance and pollard or retop or hedge or restore a crown from shoots. But where does this take place? Mainly in controlled areas like govt owned, streets/roadside, parks etc ... not Mary's backyard where she wont have you back coz there's a 60" plasma screen coming out! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors Last edited by Ekka : 17th November 2007 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Ah, fixed treeseer's name, miss spelt it! tch tch tch

16th November 2007, 06:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
treeseer Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 410	Re: Anti Topping Campaign Eric that was a unique misspelling of my name, congrats. I wish I could help you with nodes and eucs;m someday. attached is the article from 2003 when it was a sketchy proposition. Now there is no one in the usa I know of who disagrees. There were some notable holdouts but no more. i hope to have a piece in the arb journal next year--o that's right eric, you're not a member, well maybe someone will link you to the archive. o and the state of missouri did a good job at the time with that campaign. It needs some revision to stay current, but still good to get that word out. I'll be presenting there next march; hope to meet the folks who put it together. the isa conference will be in that state next july, come on over guys! __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care

16th November 2007, 08:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,192	Re: Anti Topping Campaign A bit off topic here but the line clearance guys here aren't manualy removing limbs and tops off of trees but instead the are spraying a chemical that i was told was a bud inhibator.Its suppose to stop budding on any tree it contacts.Does anyone else have this happening in your area? __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related