Anti Topping Campaign

TrevMcRev

Found this link. Good to see a community investing in educating the public.

http://www.mocommunitytrees.com/imag...aign_in_MO.ppt

5.4mb powerpoint file

Also I manually uploaded the file http://www.treeworld.info/manualuplo...ngcampaign.ppt

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Eric Frei

Love it, especially point 3 which has now been adopted in the new AS4373 2007! Fancy that.

Here you go.

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newguy18

I couldn't upload the file but I was always told that topping is bad and I will continue to believe it is bad.

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groundpounder

Item 1 is a near impossibility, item 3 is a sure thing, so I vote for item 2.
Does it make it all better if you call it "pollarding"?

Quintrex

Couldn't open it!

Eric Frei

To open it you must have Microsoft PowerPoint, it's a ppt file.

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JohN Dee

Nice little slideshow. Pity it doesn't get distributed enough... *Awaits the Tree World version*

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Eric Frei

Yes, was a well kept secret and good find.

Well presented and straight forward.

How do you suggest we can make it available? In what form?

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treefeller

Hmmm, theyll have a field day over here as we pollard all the time, i agree with number 2 tho. We only pollard as the trees outgrow their positions, ie, near houses, on streets so have to be constantly maintained.

Eric Frei

But pollarding generally commences from a younger age ... in other words you dont go whacking some 100 year old tree in half do you? You know, big 12" dia limbs cut through etc.

And species would have to influence matters too.

Anyway, can you UK guys get some detailed pics up, I like to see what goes on.

The picture below shows a close up of what is not pollarding.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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treefeller

Will do, weve got loads of pollarding at the mo, so ill get some pics up

treekiwi

Define "Pollarding' : A tree whose top branches have been cut back to the trunk so that it may produce a dense growth of new shoots. (dictionary.com).

What is the difference between topping and 'drop crotching'. These are questions that should be answered when looking at this....

Why am i topping or 'drop crotching this tree?

Little old lady likes her 'sun' and this is how her husband did it, could you suggest a thin or canopy lift?

its been done before by a hacker about 5 years ago and the epicormic shoots arent strong and it becomes a hazard?

I believe topping is bad, but drop crotching is an exceptable arboricultural method? it still removes height and apical dominance from the tree,

What is your guys take on this?

bigshea13

hands down the end result of topping a tree always looks bad. especially decidous ones after fall and before spring....over half the year. however my opinion is that there are several legit reasons to top.
1 the full crown can no longer be supported by the base and cabeling is not an option yet the owner insists the tree must stay no matter what.
2 its an evergreen growing in a utility right of way{because the trees would ordinarily be removed totally but a topped evergreen continues to grow and takes on the role of a "wolf" tree shading out lower vegitation. this would be benificial in this context.
3 after a severe storm {wind,rain.snow,ice,ect} many trees sustain substial physical damage..especially to the upper portions. many times after a heavy ice storm, a tree that may have multiple tops becomes weighted down and they tear apart like polio string cheese. some small fissures can be repaired but one can only do so much. in this case ive found that usually if a potion of the crown is removed, relieving crutial weight from the fissure below. this allows a tree that might otherwise be removed to continue to exist.

im not defending topping ...but...if i just flat out removed every ice and snow damaged tree a customer wanted me to half my town would look like farmland. sometimes money is also and issue.yeah i known some of you think thats a piss poor excuse so to you i say ," start sending me cash and it may change my mind."

Eric Frei

bigshea13

Do you know of a chap called Treeseer (Guy Meilleur)?

He'll love you for that post. Has written many articles and is an advocate of nodal pruning ice/storm damaged trees. The reason is like you said, if you were to target cut nothing would be left, removal is not an option so you cut back to nodes.

Now, I argue a little with him coz we don't have snow/ice damaged trees here and nodes are like fools gold ... not every punter knows the real deal if there's any deal at all. On many eucs I struggle to see nodes, in fact, since my merry association with this "Guy" I have tried a few experiments and cut back to what I thought was a node and frankly ... I embarrassed coz all I've got is some stubbed epicormic abomination!

So perhaps location and species dependant and will always be a good debate. I'm in the dont top it basket however some trees do self destruct and many many mature trees get naturally topped by nature.

It's hard to convince Mary Smith to not top her gum tree when many have had their mature tops blown out. Again I say this knowing not all tops blow out and many a mature tree stands in tact, however when your home is nearby nobody wants to experiment but would rather be assured that it's safe ... hence the toppers come along and spin the yarn that topping makes the tree safer.

Then you have academic and scientific reasoning, even from the likes of Mattheck and Brudi who all suggest shorter trees are safer trees. (Derr!)

Short fat trees less likely to blow over or have blow outs!

So the reduction pruners are in on this, difference being reduction pruning is to target and minimizes any regrowth unlike topping.

Our quest I suppose as arborists is to find that balance of acceptable risk and safety ... so in my mind topping is not the answer due to the ongoing growing risk. Pollarding could be argued as the "in between" ground but again means maintenance and risk if left unattended. Nodal pruning again means risk if left unattended due to regrowth.

However, some are willing to continue the maintenance and pollard or retop or hedge or restore a crown from shoots. But where does this take place? Mainly in controlled areas like govt owned, streets/roadside, parks etc ... not Mary's backyard where she wont have you back coz there's a 60" plasma screen coming out!

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treeseer

Eric that was a unique misspelling of my name, congrats. I wish I could help you with nodes and eucs;m someday.

attached is the article from 2003 when it was a sketchy proposition. Now there is no one in the usa I know of who disagrees. There were some notable holdouts but no more.
i hope to have a piece in the arb journal next year--o that's right eric, you're not a member, well maybe someone will link you to the archive.

o and the state of missouri did a good job at the time with that campaign. It needs some revision to stay current, but still good to get that word out. I'll be presenting there next march; hope to meet the folks who put it together. the isa conference will be in that state next july, come on over guys!

newguy18

A bit off topic here but the line clearance guys here aren't manualy removing limbs and tops off of trees
but instead the are spraying a chemical that i was told was a bud inhibator.Its suppose to stop budding on any tree it contacts.Does anyone else have this happening in your area?

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Eric Frei

Growth retardants, hormone based.

Personally I'd say it doesn't work very well, or we'd see bugger all cutting crews and a bunch of people with sprayers.

The HV lines out bush would be aerial sprayed like crops ... but I doubt it works.

I was at a customers place when she told me they did a trial on a row of trees in front of her house under the power wires ... no difference to other trees. It might work a little and for a while.

However I could be wrong and the chemical companies have it figured, any info on it with trials and results would be good.

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treeseer

I've been to Live Oak FL which has some beautiful trees too.

still can't attach; hope eric puts it up.

bigshea13

any time you broadcast chemicals of any sort on such a large scale you run the risk of some sort of side effect. some of the shortcommings might not be seen right away. the crew i worked with doing the 115 and 775 high lines sprayed some pretty potent SHIT! this stuff turned the leaves brown in hours. it was blasted out of an 1.5 inch hose attached to a huge pump that sat on the back of a revamped log forwarder. the chemicals used for this were generally mixed at a ratio of 1gal chem/100gal water.
after one summer working with the spray crew id had enough and flat out refused to be a part that particular portion of the operation. special adhesives were also mixed into the vat to ensure that enough of the spray stayed on the target species. the rest ran down the trunks onto the ground and into the watershed. the biggest concern throughout the whole deal was posting the sprayed areas. in some cases miles of spraying took place before other options were used. the utilities are the ones that require this and the state, government, whoever deems this SHIT legal. for those of you who think only hacks wear spikes i hope you are as equALly passionate about this subject. most of these chemicals have not been studied at great lengths and run the risk of possibly killing or harming whatever or whomever they come in contact with. \this type of thing also reduces the need for man like us. any yo yo can spray SHIT from a wand or hose. pretty soon the utilities will be handing out free do it yourself right of way spray kits.{not really} but in this day and age where the more you tune in the more you start to get an understanding and an appreciation for the long term effects of some of these chemicals. I would want my kids climbings those trees.

newguy18

Where in live oak?i live right off of us 90.About the best trees i've seen are a group of cypress trees of 90 the are 100' plus in height.

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