Would you climb this palm?

JohN Dee · 13th December 2007, 11:26 PM

Well I did a quote today, but the bloke wasn't home. So before I email off my quote, I wanna get your guys opinions on this.

This is a dead Washingtonia Palm. The head has fallen off, now it's either to do with a lightning strike or drought. The base was firm and like rock as they are. At the base he has a pagola/shelter thing over his BBQ which is next to the base.

He said he was going to pull down the Pagola/shelter before I go up, so I was thinking of maybe just climbing up to just after where the mess/vines/deads fronds are clear, setting up a rig and topping it out on a lowering line.

Anyways thats what I've got to say about it, can you guys voice your opinions to me with this palm.

Oh P.S, the access to this palm is a gate as wide as 3 foot, so no cherry picker access.

Pics embedded.

Therrin · 14th December 2007, 12:36 AM

I think it kinda looks cute. In a Charlie Brown's christmas tree kinda way. It has some character ya know? =)

arborcraft · 14th December 2007, 01:38 AM

I am very nervous about climbing dead palms.
If it has been dead for more than 6 weeks (say),
then I wouldn't climb it.
The water flow is what keeps palms strong and once it's dead,
it doesn't take long for the trunk to lose all its strength.
Options: -
1. Either throw or place a pull line as high as you can
and don't crank up the pull line too much (gently, bentley)
and then scarf it from waist height.
2. If there is no space to fell it, then walk away from the job,
that is, decline to quote.

I accept that I might sound too cautious but I really plan to die of old age.

Ekka · 14th December 2007, 03:24 AM

Yeah that's a bad one, I wouldn't be going much more than half way ... also gets scary trying to get some hingewood.

You want to make sure your saw is razor sharp and when it starts to go over cut through the hinge ... keep cutting, the last thing you want is for it to hang on and slap the hell out of ya.

Decent saw, nothing smaller than ms250 and 16" bar, razor sharp, you need to get a pull line in it too, I use a pole when I get to cutting point and can stick a rope up some 5m above me.

piyer · 14th December 2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

Well I did a quote today, but the bloke wasn't home. So before I email off my quote, I wanna get your guys opinions on this.

This is a dead Washingtonia Palm. The head has fallen off, now it's either to do with a lightning strike or drought. The base was firm and like rock as they are. At the base he has a pagola/shelter thing over his BBQ which is next to the base.

He said he was going to pull down the Pagola/shelter before I go up, so I was thinking of maybe just climbing up to just after where the mess/vines/deads fronds are clear, setting up a rig and topping it out on a lowering line.

Anyways thats what I've got to say about it, can you guys voice your opinions to me with this palm.

Oh P.S, the access to this palm is a gate as wide as 3 foot, so no cherry picker access.

Pics embedded.

Is there a "no-burn" order today? Just a thought!

dannyboysfc · 14th December 2007, 11:47 AM

Is there still much green left in the fronds? if so Iwouldn't hesitate too much.

Palm is heavy, if you take that big of a piece on a block with a bull rope the tree is gonna shake quite a bit( theres not much room to let a piece that big run) Be carefull and get ready to take a ride when that piece breaks away then agian when the rope catches it.

JohN Dee · 14th December 2007, 09:22 PM

Thanks for all your great points I've taken every one of them into consideration.

I spoke to the customer today and found out that it has been dead for 3 months. He said that he poisoned it...

So with all that being said, it seems like climbing it can not be the go to dismantle this palm. What do you guys reckon about craning this thing out? I'd have to take a slow cautious climb up so set the lines (or would ladder access be better if at all) and in your opinions would it hold or would it break upon being lifted out? via the crane.

Sean Freeman · 14th December 2007, 10:05 PM

Measure out the distances John....at 23m radius an all terrain 80T crane has a capacity of 3Tons, doubt very much if your palm is anywhere near that!

As for setting lines well i would go with the man basket if the crane company has one (BTW this all adds to the end price tag of course!)

Ekka · 15th December 2007, 01:55 AM

One day we had to cut down a dead fig.

It was ugly, and due to location had to be climbed.

We repeatedly asked the guy how long dead and he said no more than a year.

Anyway, I was groundy and climber went up, there was no bark on this thing and it was big enough.

We decided to try to natural crotch rig this thing down as best we could avoiding sheds and fences etc.

Climber cut a piece, not that big, it was tied for lowering and then the whole fork it was being lowered through broke away and the piece came down fast.

I turned my back to it and copped it straight between the shoulder blades and it winded and decked me good. 30 seconds later scrambled up a little shell shock and pissed off. screw this was my call we're felling it stuff the garden.

We felled it and it shattered into all these shitty little bits.

The guy wasn't home but his wife was. I told her what happened and why we banged up a few plants. I asked her how long it was dead ...

.... she said she didn't know, "was dead since we been here and that 5 years!"

Dont ever stake your life on what comes out of a customers mouth, they'll say anything for a cheaper price!

And it happens all the time, remember this thread?
This dead Schizolobium parahyba| Mexican fern tree| failed 4 days later

newguy18 · 18th December 2007, 08:07 PM

John this will probabley be the only time I recomend the use of a ladder but if you got one that will reach about 2/3rds the way up use it.i've climbed some hairy trees trees that have been walked away from but i'm not sure about that palm.

shaggs · 19th December 2007, 12:11 PM

G'day John. I like craning because there's alot less time (therefore less money), less mess, bigger pieces, and you can just load it straight into a treuck and your outta there.
The price of the crane can be offset by the speed and less labour. Also, try and slot in another crane job for the day and make the most of it....they're a great weapon.
You may be able to get a Franna up the driveway depending on distance... they are very quick to set up. Godd Luck

Ekka · 19th December 2007, 01:48 PM

With the crane you still have to climb up there, but you might be able to fit a man basket and block it down.

TrevMcRev · 20th December 2007, 01:22 PM

John, my tip is you wont get this job.

Your aware of the hazard involved. If you quote to do this properly and safely you"ll be way out priced by some chump with no idea.

You need to make the customer very aware of the risks involved with this tree and would may happen if done with out a crane. Position them so that they prefer to pay the extra for you to do it safely so they only compare quotes based on the same method. Point out everything that could go wrong and what the result/damage/injury/cost would be.

If you take on the risk you must have reward.

If they dont value your safety and just want a cheap job let some other clown do it, find out when, and take the video camera!

treevet · 20th December 2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

Measure out the distances John....at 23m radius an all terrain 80T crane has a capacity of 3Tons, doubt very much if your palm is anywhere near that!

As for setting lines well i would go with the man basket if the crane company has one (BTW this all adds to the end price tag of course!)

If no man basket why not just rope and saddle of the hook. You don t have to be attached to the tree, piece it down then boom it over the house. No shock load on the crane so no worry about putting crane on house.

Sean Freeman · 20th December 2007, 05:46 PM

Well, if we were in the USA or NZ then yes you'd be correct but its not permitted here..and yes I think that is wrong!

treevet · 20th December 2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

Well, if we were in the USA or NZ then yes you'd be correct but its not permitted here..and yes I think that is wrong!

I thought that might be the case. I ll remember that.

14th December 2007, 12:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Would you climb this palm? I think it kinda looks cute. In a Charlie Brown's christmas tree kinda way. It has some character ya know? =) __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

14th December 2007, 01:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
arborcraft Sappling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 18	Re: Would you climb this palm? I am very nervous about climbing dead palms. If it has been dead for more than 6 weeks (say), then I wouldn't climb it. The water flow is what keeps palms strong and once it's dead, it doesn't take long for the trunk to lose all its strength. Options: - 1. Either throw or place a pull line as high as you can and don't crank up the pull line too much (gently, bentley) and then scarf it from waist height. 2. If there is no space to fell it, then walk away from the job, that is, decline to quote. I accept that I might sound too cautious but I really plan to die of old age.

14th December 2007, 03:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Would you climb this palm? Yeah that's a bad one, I wouldn't be going much more than half way ... also gets scary trying to get some hingewood. You want to make sure your saw is razor sharp and when it starts to go over cut through the hinge ... keep cutting, the last thing you want is for it to hang on and slap the hell out of ya. Decent saw, nothing smaller than ms250 and 16" bar, razor sharp, you need to get a pull line in it too, I use a pole when I get to cutting point and can stick a rope up some 5m above me. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

14th December 2007, 11:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
dannyboysfc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Posts: 121	Re: Would you climb this palm? Is there still much green left in the fronds? if so Iwouldn't hesitate too much. Palm is heavy, if you take that big of a piece on a block with a bull rope the tree is gonna shake quite a bit( theres not much room to let a piece that big run) Be carefull and get ready to take a ride when that piece breaks away then agian when the rope catches it.

14th December 2007, 09:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 729	Re: Would you climb this palm? Thanks for all your great points I've taken every one of them into consideration. I spoke to the customer today and found out that it has been dead for 3 months. He said that he poisoned it... So with all that being said, it seems like climbing it can not be the go to dismantle this palm. What do you guys reckon about craning this thing out? I'd have to take a slow cautious climb up so set the lines (or would ladder access be better if at all) and in your opinions would it hold or would it break upon being lifted out? via the crane. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

14th December 2007, 10:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,649	Re: Would you climb this palm? Measure out the distances John....at 23m radius an all terrain 80T crane has a capacity of 3Tons, doubt very much if your palm is anywhere near that! As for setting lines well i would go with the man basket if the crane company has one (BTW this all adds to the end price tag of course!) __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

15th December 2007, 01:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Would you climb this palm? One day we had to cut down a dead fig. It was ugly, and due to location had to be climbed. We repeatedly asked the guy how long dead and he said no more than a year. Anyway, I was groundy and climber went up, there was no bark on this thing and it was big enough. We decided to try to natural crotch rig this thing down as best we could avoiding sheds and fences etc. Climber cut a piece, not that big, it was tied for lowering and then the whole fork it was being lowered through broke away and the piece came down fast. I turned my back to it and copped it straight between the shoulder blades and it winded and decked me good. 30 seconds later scrambled up a little shell shock and pissed off. screw this was my call we're felling it stuff the garden. We felled it and it shattered into all these shitty little bits. The guy wasn't home but his wife was. I told her what happened and why we banged up a few plants. I asked her how long it was dead ... .... she said she didn't know, "was dead since we been here and that 5 years!" Dont ever stake your life on what comes out of a customers mouth, they'll say anything for a cheaper price! And it happens all the time, remember this thread? This dead Schizolobium parahyba\| Mexican fern tree\| failed 4 days later __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

18th December 2007, 08:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Would you climb this palm? John this will probabley be the only time I recomend the use of a ladder but if you got one that will reach about 2/3rds the way up use it.i've climbed some hairy trees trees that have been walked away from but i'm not sure about that palm. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

19th December 2007, 12:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: Would you climb this palm? G'day John. I like craning because there's alot less time (therefore less money), less mess, bigger pieces, and you can just load it straight into a treuck and your outta there. The price of the crane can be offset by the speed and less labour. Also, try and slot in another crane job for the day and make the most of it....they're a great weapon. You may be able to get a Franna up the driveway depending on distance... they are very quick to set up. Godd Luck

19th December 2007, 01:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Would you climb this palm? With the crane you still have to climb up there, but you might be able to fit a man basket and block it down. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

20th December 2007, 01:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 732	Re: Would you climb this palm? John, my tip is you wont get this job. Your aware of the hazard involved. If you quote to do this properly and safely you"ll be way out priced by some chump with no idea. You need to make the customer very aware of the risks involved with this tree and would may happen if done with out a crane. Position them so that they prefer to pay the extra for you to do it safely so they only compare quotes based on the same method. Point out everything that could go wrong and what the result/damage/injury/cost would be. If you take on the risk you must have reward. If they dont value your safety and just want a cheap job let some other clown do it, find out when, and take the video camera! __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

20th December 2007, 05:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,649	Re: Would you climb this palm? Well, if we were in the USA or NZ then yes you'd be correct but its not permitted here..and yes I think that is wrong! __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran