Would you climb this palm?

JohN Dee

Well I did a quote today, but the bloke wasn't home. So before I email off my quote, I wanna get your guys opinions on this.

This is a dead Washingtonia Palm. The head has fallen off, now it's either to do with a lightning strike or drought. The base was firm and like rock as they are. At the base he has a pagola/shelter thing over his BBQ which is next to the base.

He said he was going to pull down the Pagola/shelter before I go up, so I was thinking of maybe just climbing up to just after where the mess/vines/deads fronds are clear, setting up a rig and topping it out on a lowering line.

Anyways thats what I've got to say about it, can you guys voice your opinions to me with this palm.

Oh P.S, the access to this palm is a gate as wide as 3 foot, so no cherry picker access.

Pics embedded.

Attached Thumbnails

     

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Therrin

I think it kinda looks cute. In a Charlie Brown's christmas tree kinda way. It has some character ya know? =)

arborcraft

I am very nervous about climbing dead palms.
If it has been dead for more than 6 weeks (say),
then I wouldn't climb it.
The water flow is what keeps palms strong and once it's dead,
it doesn't take long for the trunk to lose all its strength.
Options: -
1. Either throw or place a pull line as high as you can
and don't crank up the pull line too much (gently, bentley)
and then scarf it from waist height.
2. If there is no space to fell it, then walk away from the job,
that is, decline to quote.

I accept that I might sound too cautious but I really plan to die of old age.

Eric Frei

Yeah that's a bad one, I wouldn't be going much more than half way ... also gets scary trying to get some hingewood.

You want to make sure your saw is razor sharp and when it starts to go over cut through the hinge ... keep cutting, the last thing you want is for it to hang on and slap the hell out of ya.

Decent saw, nothing smaller than ms250 and 16" bar, razor sharp, you need to get a pull line in it too, I use a pole when I get to cutting point and can stick a rope up some 5m above me.

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piyer

Is there a "no-burn" order today? Just a thought!

dannyboysfc

Is there still much green left in the fronds? if so Iwouldn't hesitate too much.

Palm is heavy, if you take that big of a piece on a block with a bull rope the tree is gonna shake quite a bit( theres not much room to let a piece that big run) Be carefull and get ready to take a ride when that piece breaks away then agian when the rope catches it.

JohN Dee

Thanks for all your great points I've taken every one of them into consideration.

I spoke to the customer today and found out that it has been dead for 3 months. He said that he poisoned it...

So with all that being said, it seems like climbing it can not be the go to dismantle this palm. What do you guys reckon about craning this thing out? I'd have to take a slow cautious climb up so set the lines (or would ladder access be better if at all) and in your opinions would it hold or would it break upon being lifted out? via the crane.

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Sean Freeman

Measure out the distances John....at 23m radius an all terrain 80T crane has a capacity of 3Tons, doubt very much if your palm is anywhere near that!

As for setting lines well i would go with the man basket if the crane company has one (BTW this all adds to the end price tag of course!)

Eric Frei

One day we had to cut down a dead fig.

It was ugly, and due to location had to be climbed.

We repeatedly asked the guy how long dead and he said no more than a year.

Anyway, I was groundy and climber went up, there was no bark on this thing and it was big enough.

We decided to try to natural crotch rig this thing down as best we could avoiding sheds and fences etc.

Climber cut a piece, not that big, it was tied for lowering and then the whole fork it was being lowered through broke away and the piece came down fast.

I turned my back to it and copped it straight between the shoulder blades and it winded and decked me good. 30 seconds later scrambled up a little shell shock and pissed off. screw this was my call we're felling it stuff the garden.

We felled it and it shattered into all these shitty little bits.

The guy wasn't home but his wife was. I told her what happened and why we banged up a few plants. I asked her how long it was dead ...

.... she said she didn't know, "was dead since we been here and that 5 years!"

Dont ever stake your life on what comes out of a customers mouth, they'll say anything for a cheaper price!

And it happens all the time, remember this thread?
This dead Schizolobium parahyba| Mexican fern tree| failed 4 days later

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newguy18

John this will probabley be the only time I recomend the use of a ladder but if you got one that will reach about 2/3rds the way up use it.i've climbed some hairy trees trees that have been walked away from but i'm not sure about that palm.

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shaggs

G'day John. I like craning because there's alot less time (therefore less money), less mess, bigger pieces, and you can just load it straight into a treuck and your outta there.
The price of the crane can be offset by the speed and less labour. Also, try and slot in another crane job for the day and make the most of it....they're a great weapon.
You may be able to get a Franna up the driveway depending on distance... they are very quick to set up. Godd Luck

Eric Frei

With the crane you still have to climb up there, but you might be able to fit a man basket and block it down.

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TrevMcRev

John, my tip is you wont get this job.

Your aware of the hazard involved. If you quote to do this properly and safely you"ll be way out priced by some chump with no idea.

You need to make the customer very aware of the risks involved with this tree and would may happen if done with out a crane. Position them so that they prefer to pay the extra for you to do it safely so they only compare quotes based on the same method. Point out everything that could go wrong and what the result/damage/injury/cost would be.

If you take on the risk you must have reward.

If they dont value your safety and just want a cheap job let some other clown do it, find out when, and take the video camera!

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treevet

If no man basket why not just rope and saddle of the hook. You don t have to be attached to the tree, piece it down then boom it over the house. No shock load on the crane so no worry about putting crane on house.

Sean Freeman

Well, if we were in the USA or NZ then yes you'd be correct but its not permitted here..and yes I think that is wrong!

treevet

I thought that might be the case. I ll remember that.

newguy18

Did you take it down John?

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JohN Dee

No not yet, he's waiting til after new years...

So that's good considering I havn't even got the bloody quote from the crane company yet... Emailed them, still no reply, will call them next week...

Trev, indeed I've warned him about getting the next Tree Lopper that knocks on his door to cut it down. I also said to him if he didn't poison it he wouldn't be in this predicament now :P. I was meant to email him the quote, but I will indeed personally deliver it to him so I can talk with him about it...

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Husky man

if there is room to get a EWP near the job it would be the safest option

Husky man

So that rules out my EWP idea

TreeDimensional

JoHn Dee, you mentioned that he poisoned it, with what chemical? The pics are from quite a ways back, how do the fronds look, meaning, are they dying? We don't have s--tsticks here, but I would assume that the poison would show up somewhere in the stem and fronds.

I had a prospective client try and poison a boulavard tree on two separate occasions (Round-up and gas), He drilled about 20 1/2" holes around the basil flair, the tree didn't look any the worse for ware, and the following spring it appeared healthier than ever.

Do what your gut and brain tell you to, and if it means bringing in a crane, DO IT, and by-the-way add on a surcharge to the bill that will make the owner think twice about slopping chemicals around again. Like so many others have said about the tree industry, "It is dangerous enough without the help of the ignorant".

YOUR CALL, good luck.

southsoundtree

What about just dismantling the fence for a cherry picker.

Explain that if he wanted it dead that he should have had it removed sooner. His actions dictate that more costly measures come in to play. He may have to eat the cost of the crane.

Explaining to him, in person, what is going on will be much better than emailing it. As someone said, he may just go for someone cheaper that doesn't know the risk. Make it clear to him that he has caused the hazardous situation, and for the safety and potentially life of the arborist, he will have to deal with it. Also, explain that he has undermined the stability of the tree. He may or may not have told the truth on the timeframe. Explain that if the tree goes wrong on his or his neighbor's house, he may be responsible for the damage if he's "forgotten that it was longer ago" that he poisoned it.

I did a maple snag that was dead for "a year" but it really was longer, or was mostly dead for a while, then lost the final leaves on one stem that constituted it being alive. Don't believe the homeowners on the time frame of it being dead, unless they are willing to stand under the tree while its being pieced down, even then don't. Ask the neighbors.

There's some good crane techniques and advice on ????????.com, and look for a crane company that's got an experienced operator for trees.

shaggs

[QUOTE=JohN Dee;15533]

So that's good considering I havn't even got the bloody quote from the crane company yet... QUOTE]

Hey John,
Many many years ago I used Harley Cranes, I think they are out your way. We would use them when other crane mobs didn't have much of a clue about tree/crane work. They were excellent and even have alot more cranes now.
May be worth a try.

treevet

Was just curious Sean, do you have to have the basket attached to the boom or can it be suspended by the hook giving you maybe a little more access. Was just reading TCI and found on the accident page an incident where an individual was killed in a man basket on a crane when the limb fell on him crushing him. Seems to me that, having watched them used before, that the lack of mobility and consequently positioning could lead to an accident such as this. It is so much easier obviously to position w rope and saddle, therefore not having to cut with a "hope and a prayer". The favorite technique if you can only get one unit to the tree is to rope and saddle on the hook to the end of the piece, hook up a choker to the end of the piece, then descend on the rope, disconnect the climb line and buck in and cut above lanyard and goodbye. It s fast and safe and can t believe you guys are banned from this. Sure you all have hashed this out before. Merry Christmas again.

Sean Freeman

treevet its is one of the most frustrating bits of legislation affecting us here re the removal of very large awkwardly located problem trees (eg dead)
It is just plain wrong to disallow qualified skilled climbing Arborists to make use of this safe and reliable technique (Based on ANSI)

The man basket is attached to the hook and suspended from the load line, not the boom.

newguy18

that sounds dangerous sean.i've never used a crane but then again I've never really had the need to.

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treevet

Yeah Sean, making legislation in generalities for a green man (beginner) and a highly experienced and skilled arborist is and will continue to be a thorn in our side. Another example is one handing a top handled power saw. New guy....no way. The top dog in the yard.....your business can t be competetive or even profitable w out this technique.

newguy18

i can't one hand a chainsaw?Then I don't want to climb anymore.

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davido

That palm is more work to climb than it's worth! Despite the fact that I see some remaining green on the fronds. I would rent a spider lift for that one.

Q.Q.

So has the palm been done?. I had a tricky one of these a little while ago and I just got the excavator in.He racked the leaves of one side,i climbed up and attached the slip chain,came down and just cut the one side half way through and he cracked it over to where it had to go.Cut down taken to the dump and the stump dug out in three hours.
Probly carn't do that here though.
I know I alway's like to do the right thing to the best of my knowlge and I won't say again, would be handy if you could ride the hook for a short time and do what treevet said. I agree with him totally.

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