Tree trunk split from storm

mlat

I have been researching this problem on the Internet and I would like to try and save this tree because it is our main shade tree for the front of our house. I would like to use a winch about 6-8 feet above the split to pull the split back together. Then drill a hole through the tree and insert a threated bolt with large washers and nuts to secure the bolt. We had huge storms 3 months ago and I just noticed this split. My questions are:

1.Judging from the pictures, can this tree be saved?
2.Do I put any kind of substance inside the split before joining together? (Like neosporne for trees)
3.How big of a treaded steel bold do I need?
4.How long should the brace cable stay on the tree?

Any other advise would be great. Thanks

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Eric Frei

Some even think they can save dead trees. So within the extremities of that scope sure ... every tree can be saved then.

Not sure with local fungal pathogens (oak wilt etc) but dont bother with anything is the most often heard advice, it's been open and exposed already so if there was going to be infection it's already happened. Sealing it in can help it flourish.

Use stainless steel if you can, the selection also depends on the drill sizes available, I wouldn't want to see you go under 3/4" dia though and perhaps at least 2 of them.

It's a life long thing now, and have to be maintained. I'd suggest using rigguy about 1/3 up the tree and then a dynamic 2/3 up.

Rigguy Wirestop fasteners for cable

I would also suggest you get a qualified experienced arborist in for advice and look the tree over and perhaps do the cabling.

From the pictures it appears to me that both the left and right leaders above the split may have been topped and the branches coming from that buldging union look crowded and bark included.

There may also be pruning and soil treatments required to help the tree, a qualified person will know what to look for, test the soil etc.

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spartek

I would use a non-invasive dynamic rope with tree slings ,You can put a slight "preload" on line when installing it.Since tree is not very tall ,that will work perfectly.And as far as sealing the included crotch,tempoarily seal outer splits and fill with asphalt based compound,when the compound thickens or "sets".remove temporary outer seals.This will deter pathogens from starting the "downward spiral" of doom. But hey,there's always those guys that can bring it back to life , should it die.Thats what I would do.All in all,I think it is definatley worth a shot.

treevet

IMO split is too severe and decurrent in architecture to consider a dynamic system in canopy at this point. As for the threaded rods you can purchase the materials and gas powered drill from one of our sponsors above, Sherrill tree supply.

spartek

If you put an 8 ton cobra or tree saver at about twleve feet where the two leaders split,theres no way that crotch can open up any more.If it does, I buy everbody a beer

treevet

12 ft. above the crotch? If you are putting that kind of pressure around the stem then you are compressing vascular tissue and defeating the purpose of the dynamic system. Two thirds way up as SOP would suggest and an inconsequential injury for lag bolts, the correct dia. cable and it is good to go.

Eric Frei

The way I see it, from reading these forums and peoples experience.

Cracked co-dominant ... static bracing, you want zero movement.

If no cracks, extended branches, included unions etc then dynamic as you want some movement so the tree builds more wood around the weak part. But in this example the tree building wood around that crack, fat chance.

But JimNZ1 did suggest a lower static cable with a dynamic further up, say maybe a static at 1/3 and dynamic at 2/3

Sure is a nasty crack though. Problem is now it's a place that fungi can invade.

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treevet

It is difficult to tell by the perspective if there are opposites to make do with just one cable or multiple static ones will be nec., but I would say with fair certainty that that split could be drawn very close together prior to putting threaded rod/s to inhibit lateral movement of the trunk. I think that tree would be better than new when completed but cables should be checked periodically.

treeseer

Butch Ballowe is my role model.

treevet

Lay off the rheumitiz medicine, Guy.

mlat

I think I am going to use a comalong and 20 feet of cable to close the split. Then I will put a 32 inch threaded bolt and secure the bolt. I will leave the cable holding the tree for as long as it takes.

treevet

My old man used to always tell me "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
You will need a cable clamp to go with that come a long. Tell us more about how and where you plan to install these cables and rods if you'd like more expert advice.

treeseer

Agreed, why not get the rule book for $7.? https://secure.isa-arbor.com/store/B...ms-P156C0.aspx

treevet

Either that or ask people who were putting in cables properly for decades prior to the all these rulebooks that this literature evolved from (us). Save $7.00.

mlat

I plan to put the bolt right below the Y on the trunck. I will put the cables about 10 feet above the split because each of the two major branches Y to form the higher branches. I feel that is the best spot. I will use 4 cable clamps to secure the cable. Should I use some 2x4's between the cable and bark so I do not tear up the tree?

spartek

This tree's gonna be worth a million dollars when TREEWORLD gets done with it. Just imagine if we had "TELETRANSPORTES" like the starship "ENTERPRISE". "BEAM US ALL DOWN, EKKA,WE GOTTA HOT JOB TO DO" I'll bring the beer

treevet

You don't have a chance of doing this job properly after posting that question.
You need a professional.

treeseer

This is Dave's way of saying that the most important part of a tree is the inner bark, so extreme care must be taken to avoid damaging it.

I once used a wide nylon strap to move a maple at my kid's school. It took 4 years to die; just got uglier and uglier until it croaked. At the very least, spend $7 and buy the bmp's.

treevet

Excuse my curt response, but after "wrap installing" these cables why not, if the neighbor needs their appendix removed, get some info on the internet, wash up the steak knife and "have at it"!

treeseer

o and mlat the tree will need pruning first; best left for a pro.

Eric Frei

You blokes really get into it with your cabling.

I think Mlat wants to torque it up, bolt the stem then release the cable ... but I'm not sure, is that the plan Mlat?

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treeseer

How to torque it up without killing the patient?

There is no way that crack will entirely close.


Quote:
Originally Posted by treeseer View Post
Agreed, why not get the rule book for $7.? https://secure.isa-arbor.com/store/B...ms-P156C0.aspx

treevet: "Either that or ask people who were putting in cables properly for decades prior to the all these rulebooks that this literature evolved from (us). Save $7.00.

Uh, Dave, I do not understand. On the one had you seem to recommend learning how to do tree care from the pros online; on the other hand with the appendix comment you seem to be mocking the effort. ?????

O and that literature has been evolving, every 5 years a revision, so those who did it decades ago may benefit from seeing where the science and technology are today.

To provide standards for specifying and practicing the care of woody plants, members of the International Society of Arboriculture, the U.S. Forest Service, American Society of Consulting Arborists, the Tree Care Industry Association, the American Society of Landscape Architects, and seven other organizations develop an industry consensus. ANSI A300 standards apply to any person or entity engaged in the business, trade, or performance of repairing, maintaining, or preserving trees, shrubs, or other woody plants. The Z60 standards on nursery operations and the Z133.1 standards on safety are important as well, but they are outside the scope of this article.

From the top of the tree to the bottom, the Standards offer guidance on services that your competition does not offer. These services are aimed at increasing the value of the trees. If successful, this work can be worth a lot to tree owners.
Applying ANSI can make you an expert in the eyes of clients and authorities, such as your town, county or state government. ANSI standards are also recognized as the ultimate authority in the United States civil court system. In our country it seems that anyone can be sued for anything, so there’s no use in worrying about going to court, only in losing! There’s no need to fear losing a lawsuit if you have read the standards and know your work complies. A tree “hazard” is defined as a level of tree risk greater than the owner is willing to tolerate. “Hazard trees” are managed by lessening—reducing, mitigating--the risk they pose, either by removal or by arboricultural treatments, to a level that the owner accepts. Reducing or supporting defective branches, propping or bracing defective trunks, guying trees with defective root systems; all these and more arboricultural activities can be specified and practiced free of liability concerns, if they are ANSI-compliant, standard operating procedures.

When we’re on a job where “All work shall be performed according to ANSI Standards”, we have more freedom to operate if we know those standards well. We are indeed fortunate to have ANSI committees making our work easier by keeping the standards current and accurate. Clients, be they homeowners or administrators, expect work to be done to industry standard. By reading and applying all the ANSI A300 standards very closely, tree care professionals can diversify their work and grow their companies. I keep current copies right in there with my proposal forms and other promotional material, and pull them out regularly when offering opinions and specifying work. More tree care services can be more easily sold, and more profit can be made, by following standard operating procedures.

treevet

I have heard of selective indignation but now witness "delayed" indignation (and long winded indignation). Guy, these standards are developed for arborists that have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how trees are built and how they function. Otherwise, for the most part, the HO probably should keep his hands off. Often there is a feeling out process to discover what level of knowledge the questioner is possessing before advice is given. Upon hearing that Matt planned to wrap a steel cable around the stem and tension it up then it could be logically assumed that pretty much anything that is attempted here would have a disregard(or ignorance of) for injurious results. Also cable/s improperly installed can lead to further splitting and splitting in other areas, even failure above the anchor points.

mlat

I plan on leaving the cable in the tree for added support for a few years or until the crack has healed. I do not thing the bold alone will help the tree because we have massive storms here. The storm that split the tree has winds up to 100mph. For that reason I will leave the cable in.

I am getting the parts this weekend and plan on putting them on the tree within the next 10 days. Any final advice before I start drilling?

treevet

The cable clamp I mentioned above you took for cable clamps to secure the cable after you fold it over is an apparatus that attaches to the come a long referred to as a "havens grip" in the Sherrill catalogue (see above sponsor) to tension the cables.

Post some pictures of your work in sequence and let's talk about it.

Garry Brockley

i know this is slightly off topic but is there anything that can be applied to that wound that will stem the rot or even help the tree seal the wound once the crack is closed or at least partly closed ie hormone powder like when you graft fruit trees, i have done lots of these and had a 99% success rate, ok itd be hard to wrap it.
i get quite a few of this type of problem but the estate owners just say take it out. id like to give them an option of saving it, because they have had poor results from cabling in the past (but that may have been the previous contractor) i have to admit i have never cabled a tree before the customers have never given that option on any jobs ive had.

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treeseer

what hormone?

cabling with wirestops is very easy.

cable too low is the #1 reason they fail here.

treevet

Let's not blame this split entirely on wind or poor architecture. These are co dominant stems with included bark. Putting on a growth increment each year where it is located on the inside of the stems above the fork will "push" these 2 trunks apart causing a fault or fracture. If this tree was pruned for structure when very young this could have been avoided.

When a tree is wounded it is infected. Trees fight off thousands of infections in their lives. A chemical barrier will wall off infection even in inert wood within the split. It will likely get some rot from this and the included bark.
This is no death sentence. It is a shame "they had poor results from cabling in the past" leaving a bad taste. I have said on another cabling thread that I have installed well over a thousand cables and have never had a report of a failure to my office. Big trouble can occur with an improperly installed cable and the property damage you are trying to prevent may be "caused" by your cable. If a loaded cable breaks loose the "throw" or momentum of the movement of the leader at the time of the break can take the leader "out of bounds" and past holding and squash a house, etc. Also if one side of a fault is tensioned more than the other side of the split you will cause a failure on the untensioned side. Also I have seen many birches cabled together because the arborist perceived a problem even though one did not exist as birch are hugely flexible. I have seen ice cause all the tops to break above the cables as the entire beam could not flex the way it evolved to. Etc. Etc.

I guess the "best practices" booklet would be the best way to learn if they did not over analyze so much as is the nature of government doctrines. They usually end up appearing to be written in Chinese.

treeseer

The BMP's have nothing to do with the government--people often think of the ISA like the govt, but it is not. re overanalyzing, i prefer that to underanalyzing. I do totally agree about the writing style though--not always user-friendly.

What's the last version that you read, Dave? The 2007 version had some changes.

treevet

I'll give it a look, Guy, but I am still sure it is not meant for an uneducated HO to read it and be a "be a do-it-yourselfer".