TGR s

treevet · 12th April 2008, 05:36 AM

I'd love to hear anyones opinion on efficacy of TGR's such as Cambistat, etc.
Not looking for manufacturer's opinions but rather first hand accounts or what has been heard from other arborists. Doesn't need to be technical scientific research just observations and opinions from those who know trees.

Can it make a silver maple grow slow and strong like a white oak, Guy, etc.

TreeSpecialist · 15th April 2008, 04:42 AM

TGR's are curious things to play with - a little like juggling dynamite.

Several years ago, TGR's were going to save the utility companies millions of dollars. Several of my utility friends have told me the horror stories they experienced with the various products. No utility around here are using TGR's as a result. If they worked predictably, you can bet that the utility folks would have no problem with using them every day.

If you can believe even half of the literature that accompanies the product you mentioned, it sounds too good to be true.

In the right tree, at the right time, with the correct dosage and the right delivery system, TGR's do marvelous things to the tree - short term. Smaller leaves, slower growth, but with more leaves and more leaf surface and increased levels of chlorophyll resulting in a darker green color.

The problem I have with paclobutrazol is that the formula (dosage) is different between different species and that they keep changing.

Too much can result in leaves 1/5 to 1/10 the normal size.

Too little results in no change at all.

In areas where ground water is a concern (most of where I live), I worry about dumping chemicals on the ground and where they will end up.

Also, if something is designed to be absorbed right through the suberized root collar, then how easily could it be absorbed through your skin.

The solution for silver leaf maples is to reduce their crowns - kept them compact. Or as we do around here, a single cut about 1 inch above grade does the trick. Replacement with a more appropriate species seems to be a better choice than pouring chemicals around the base of a tree in an effort to make it something it never will be.

Just my 2 cents.....

treevet · 15th April 2008, 05:07 AM

I have also read of phytotoxity involving the use of these products esp. Cambistat, even if the very precise dosage and timing called for is met. I am curious if all is perfect, can TGR s make the difference in a tree dying from drought where there is nothing to lose anyway. I will see this year.

As for line clearance use. How many times do you see a branch severed on it's way towards the wires that you think, "WTF, that branch should not have died with that percentage of cut back and proper cutting tech. Had to be TGR.

Thanks for your way more than .02 sense.

PS the more you cut the laterals back in a silv mpl the more it skyrockets to the moon. Prune at ground level is also advised here.

TreeSpecialist · 15th April 2008, 05:11 AM

The silver maple is the tree that keeps on giving. Folks charge to sell it, to plant it, to prune it (yearly) for 20 years or so, treat it for scale, etc. and then get to cut it down.

Job security in a single species..........

treevet · 15th April 2008, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeSpecialist

The silver maple is the tree that keeps on giving. Folks charge to sell it, to plant it, to prune it (yearly) for 20 years or so, treat it for scale, etc. and then get to cut it down.

Job security in a single species..........

There are entire businesses fueled by it as you say. Line clearance companies, and tree toppers (brush harvesters-(Blair)). Used to be nurseries and outlets(super fast turnover) but they were finally forced to diversify when municipalities banned them (like ours-Cinci) and some of the public wised up.

Treelore · 20th April 2008, 08:48 AM

Is this the only application you are looking at TV? There has been great success for varying reasons of synthetic Auxins IAA and NAA for stunted plant development and cessation of apical growth in ornamentals. Also high ratios of Auxins to cytokinins develops root formation whereas conversely it allows for shoot formation. Abscissic acid can promote dormancy or closure of stomata. Also some of these hormones appliead at different times can either cause fruit drop or enlargement. Just wondering specifically what you were wanting to acheive.

vl2007 · 20th April 2008, 04:24 PM

Are TGR's still experimental? Do they realy know how they interact with humans? They must have one hell of a half life to control a tree for years. I know in my neighborhood the power company is required to get approval from homeowners before they can spray. That suggest liabilaty.

treevet · 20th April 2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treelore

Is this the only application you are looking at TV? There has been great success for varying reasons of synthetic Auxins IAA and NAA for stunted plant development and cessation of apical growth in ornamentals. Also high ratios of Auxins to cytokinins develops root formation whereas conversely it allows for shoot formation. Abscissic acid can promote dormancy or closure of stomata. Also some of these hormones appliead at different times can either cause fruit drop or enlargement. Just wondering specifically what you were wanting to acheive.

Not looking for anything specific Treelore, just some chat about this tool. Good post. If you/others can pass on some first hand accounts of non manufacturers use/results, we will start a true learning experience. To date phytotoxicity has been one limiting factor and the need for very precise dosage and adjustments another. This is what I have read in regards to Cambistat.

treevet · 20th April 2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vl2007

Are TGR's still experimental? Do they realy know how they interact with humans? They must have one hell of a half life to control a tree for years. I know in my neighborhood the power company is required to get approval from homeowners before they can spray. That suggest liabilaty.

They are on the market but still in the experimental phase, we being the experimenters as usual.

treevet · 20th April 2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

Not looking for anything specific Treelore, just some chat about this tool. Good post. If you/others can pass on some first hand accounts of non manufacturers use/results, we will start a true learning experience. To date phytotoxicity has been one limiting factor and the need for very precise dosage and adjustments another. This is what I have read in regards to Cambistat.

On second thought, my personal interest in these products is for relief of drought damage. We had a major drought last year. This in conjunction with the hottest temperatures in the history of weather forecasting has killed and damaged many plants. We, in the first 3 months of this year are already 9 inches ahead of this time last year (could mean too much water damage).
The last time we had a major drought (not as bad though) was in 1987 and just about every Norway Maple in sight died, big and small. No one mentions this on TV or news but an old timer like myself notices stuff like that. There are thousands of dead Norways everywhere.

treevet · 20th April 2008, 05:26 PM

Also would like to mention that claims of effective residuals of EB into the next season are unsubstantiated. Also completeness of control on very large ash is still being studied.

treevet · 20th April 2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

Also would like to mention that claims of effective residuals of EB into the next season are unsubstantiated. Also completeness of control on very large ash is still being studied.

Meant to put this in the Tree-age thread sorry. I need to go do some desk work and am putting it off.

Treelore · 21st April 2008, 08:56 AM

Honestly treevet I would be looking at boilogical innoculation and Mycorhizae for help with plant available water before growth regulators. We have acheived sustainable systems that require no additional watering in level 5 water restrictions in a drought that makes yours look like a week without rain!! The ability of outsourcing fungi to access water from micropores beyond wilting point is incredible. success in WA of double yiled of crops with 50% of water are not an anomaly but a methodology now. Arb has a problem tapping into other resources and is often left behind. Agronomy and Agriculture have been on this band wagon for a while.

newguy18 · 21st April 2008, 07:27 PM

The utility co hit some of my trees with tgr's in nov.I'll try to get some pics tommorow.

newguy18 · 22nd April 2008, 01:30 PM

Heres some pics.

newguy18 · 22nd April 2008, 01:41 PM

one more.

DBS · 22nd April 2008, 03:12 PM

some good info here...

http://www.rainbowtreecare.com/pdf/T...GR_Article.pdf

-Daryl

12th April 2008, 05:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
treevet Astronaut Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 598	TGR s I'd love to hear anyones opinion on efficacy of TGR's such as Cambistat, etc. Not looking for manufacturer's opinions but rather first hand accounts or what has been heard from other arborists. Doesn't need to be technical scientific research just observations and opinions from those who know trees. Can it make a silver maple grow slow and strong like a white oak, Guy, etc.

15th April 2008, 04:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
TreeSpecialist Cruisin' Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 97	Re: TGR s TGR's are curious things to play with - a little like juggling dynamite. Several years ago, TGR's were going to save the utility companies millions of dollars. Several of my utility friends have told me the horror stories they experienced with the various products. No utility around here are using TGR's as a result. If they worked predictably, you can bet that the utility folks would have no problem with using them every day. If you can believe even half of the literature that accompanies the product you mentioned, it sounds too good to be true. In the right tree, at the right time, with the correct dosage and the right delivery system, TGR's do marvelous things to the tree - short term. Smaller leaves, slower growth, but with more leaves and more leaf surface and increased levels of chlorophyll resulting in a darker green color. The problem I have with paclobutrazol is that the formula (dosage) is different between different species and that they keep changing. Too much can result in leaves 1/5 to 1/10 the normal size. Too little results in no change at all. In areas where ground water is a concern (most of where I live), I worry about dumping chemicals on the ground and where they will end up. Also, if something is designed to be absorbed right through the suberized root collar, then how easily could it be absorbed through your skin. The solution for silver leaf maples is to reduce their crowns - kept them compact. Or as we do around here, a single cut about 1 inch above grade does the trick. Replacement with a more appropriate species seems to be a better choice than pouring chemicals around the base of a tree in an effort to make it something it never will be. Just my 2 cents.....

15th April 2008, 05:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
treevet Astronaut Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 598	Re: TGR s I have also read of phytotoxity involving the use of these products esp. Cambistat, even if the very precise dosage and timing called for is met. I am curious if all is perfect, can TGR s make the difference in a tree dying from drought where there is nothing to lose anyway. I will see this year. As for line clearance use. How many times do you see a branch severed on it's way towards the wires that you think, "WTF, that branch should not have died with that percentage of cut back and proper cutting tech. Had to be TGR. Thanks for your way more than .02 sense. PS the more you cut the laterals back in a silv mpl the more it skyrockets to the moon. Prune at ground level is also advised here.

15th April 2008, 05:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
TreeSpecialist Cruisin' Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 97	Re: TGR s The silver maple is the tree that keeps on giving. Folks charge to sell it, to plant it, to prune it (yearly) for 20 years or so, treat it for scale, etc. and then get to cut it down. Job security in a single species..........

20th April 2008, 08:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Treelore Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 117	Re: TGR s Is this the only application you are looking at TV? There has been great success for varying reasons of synthetic Auxins IAA and NAA for stunted plant development and cessation of apical growth in ornamentals. Also high ratios of Auxins to cytokinins develops root formation whereas conversely it allows for shoot formation. Abscissic acid can promote dormancy or closure of stomata. Also some of these hormones appliead at different times can either cause fruit drop or enlargement. Just wondering specifically what you were wanting to acheive.

20th April 2008, 04:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
vl2007 Cruisin' Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 84	Re: TGR s Are TGR's still experimental? Do they realy know how they interact with humans? They must have one hell of a half life to control a tree for years. I know in my neighborhood the power company is required to get approval from homeowners before they can spray. That suggest liabilaty.

20th April 2008, 05:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
treevet Astronaut Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 598	Re: TGR s Also would like to mention that claims of effective residuals of EB into the next season are unsubstantiated. Also completeness of control on very large ash is still being studied.

21st April 2008, 08:56 AM	#13 (permalink)
Treelore Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 117	Re: TGR s Honestly treevet I would be looking at boilogical innoculation and Mycorhizae for help with plant available water before growth regulators. We have acheived sustainable systems that require no additional watering in level 5 water restrictions in a drought that makes yours look like a week without rain!! The ability of outsourcing fungi to access water from micropores beyond wilting point is incredible. success in WA of double yiled of crops with 50% of water are not an anomaly but a methodology now. Arb has a problem tapping into other resources and is often left behind. Agronomy and Agriculture have been on this band wagon for a while.

21st April 2008, 07:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,188	Re: TGR s The utility co hit some of my trees with tgr's in nov.I'll try to get some pics tommorow. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

22nd April 2008, 03:12 PM	#17 (permalink)
DBS Fly'n Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CT USA Posts: 196	Re: TGR s some good info here... http://www.rainbowtreecare.com/pdf/T...GR_Article.pdf -Daryl __________________ Stihl MS 200T Stihl MS 361

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