Soil Injectors

julianjym

Hello my new friends!!!! I live out here in the forests of Southern California and we are being attacked by a new borer that likes various types of Oaks native here. I want to treat my precious trees with imidicloprid (cost-effective) but can't bring myself or afford to pay $400.00 plus for a Kioritz soil injector. Does anyone know of a way to make your own injector??? Seems like a pretty simple mechanism but I am a novice...I know I could do a soil drench but I've read it's not the most effective...
What would your advise be??? Many thanks in advance for any help...I love my trees!!!!!!!! Julianjym

Bruce Hopf

I don't know too much about Soil Injectors, but I was wondering if a Person could use something like a Farmer uses to Combat Root Worm in Corn, Sprinkle it on the Ground, and Rake it in with a Rake, or Dust for Potato Bugs in the Garden. Just a Thought. Bruce.

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julianjym

Thanks for the reply Bruce...all the reading I've done says to get the imidicloprid down 8-10 inches in a 2.5 ft. grid pattern...you can just mix up a bunch and heavily watr the areas around the trees but most research suggests that is a less effective method.

Bruce Hopf

Just a Thought, but if You use some type of Insecticide, like for Root Worm for Example, and Rake it in, when it Rains, the Insecticide would get taken down into the Soil, when the Water the Rain, gets Absorbed into the Ground. Wouldn't that be Better than Injecting it? Like I said before, I don't know too much about Soil Injectors. Bruce.

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McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

pcarborist

Soil drench takes much longer for the tree to take up the chemical, sometimes as long as 2 months.

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parkcityarborist

treevet

Cultural control, a method of controlling plant pests by providing a growing environment conducive to plant health and therefore unfavorable to the pest (borer) is a much better option than preventative insecticide treatments.

The exception is a borer such as Emerald Ash Borer, that is capable of penetrating a tree's defense system even when healthy because it is exotic and the tree did not evolve with the pest.

julianjym

Treevet...that is exactly what's happening here in So. California, specifically san diego county. An exotic "emerald-gold borer" was introduced from mexico and is attacking healthy black oaks, coastal live oaks, etc. We've already lost most of the coulter pines her due to drought and the subsequent pine-beetles onslaught...It's killing me to watch the whole forest slowly thin and die so I want to try any remedy that's within my abilities to try and prevent this carnage on my little spot on the earth. You wouldn't by chance know where I could download the user's manual for the Kioritz soil injector??? I'm pretty handy with tools and milling machines and thought I could just make my own since it seems like such a simple procedure...Thanks again to all that have responded...I appreciate any and all help...Jim

treevet

The most simple and uncomplicated (and effective IMO) system that is the pioneer of all the other systems is Mauget. Mauget imicide would be my recommendation and remember....dose and timing, if you aren't correct with these 2, then you're wasting your time.

Just the same improving cultural practices should go hand in hand with your attempted saves. Whatever you use will not translocate well enough to be effective (if the tree is not healthy when treated) and the few that do get through the treatment (and there will be some) will have a magnified negative effect if the tree is waning.

Drenches as PC said are way less effective and have tested much lower than systemic basal injections.

With Mauget, An average size tree....you can fit the whole set up in your ball cap.....cordless drill with bit (can double as a mallet with the handle), injectors, tubes. I have been using then for 40 years.

julianjym

Treevet...thank you so much for responding so quickly...I'll look into what you've written about Mauget. I've talked to the Forest Service entmologist about this and he said nothing about Mauget so I will ask again...When you refer to timing and application can you give me any specific recomendations??? The following is a link to his info:
Cleveland National Forest - Newsroom

I can't thank you enough knowing that someone out there is kind enough to help...I owe you a beer if you ever come this way.... Jim

treevet

Fascinating similarities here. EAB Agrilus planipenis (as opposed to your "coxalis") is a hauntingly congruent story. EAB is also a flat head metallic wood borer leaving d shaped exit holes. It came here through the border into Michigan in pallets from China. It was likewise misdiagnosed in the early stages,....in this case as Ash Yellows, that had previously been an issue in ash for years. It was also misdiagnosed, likely, as TLCB (two lined chestnut borer) This let it get a huge head start without any control for years and build up until properly diagnosed by Dr. Dave Roberts from Mich State U in the winter of 2002..

Best off contacting the Mauget company for dose and timing at Home - Mauget - The Original Micro-Injection System.

I will run this by an email contact friend I have at Ohio State U. and see what he has in the way of inside info on this. He is a lead researcher on EAB. He is real busy now but he usually gets back in a couple of weeks or sooner.

julianjym

Treevet...I looked at the Mauet "imicide" and saw it was a 10% solution...I was going to buy the Quali-pro 75wsb packets which have a higher concentration of the same drug...Am I wrong to assume a higher dose is more effective???? This is america and we all seem to feel if one pill cures something then two pills would be even better...still trying to figure out how to get my hands on the soil injector - the local forestry dept. doesn't rent them out to the public and I don't know any arborists personally so....Also, I don't feel comfortable drilling into the tree to infuse the drug - a few years ago I tried "ace-caps" on a large coulter pine and it kicked the bucket anyway and when I burned the firewood which resulted, I would see the little plastic caps in the wood...Oh well....Thanks again....Jim

treevet

What it comes down to in your case and mine with these particular borers is that if you do not inject the tree the tree will die in an infestation site.

Let's look at this scenario. You have 100 borer larvae attempting to chow down on your tree. You get 90 percent control with an injection (best I have seen other than mfctr claims) and 10 get into your tree. With soil injection you have 60 percent control and 40 get in your tree. Pretty significant difference and maybe a fatal one. Project that to heavy pressure and 1000 try to get in and feed and make galleries that interrupt conductive tissue. Neither probably works to save the tree.

Have you ever seen the size of the wound one gallery wound makes on a tree. It is substantial. Hold the tip of your index finger to the tip of your thumb on the same hand. That is the size and shape of just one wound made by one larvae. It is hard to imagine winning this battle. This is why it has been stated by some that this is the end of Fraxinus on the continent.

If you want a sales pitch as to the dose of the chemical you are better off speaking to a sales rep and they are very available. Seems like no matter what is said to you, you are bent on soil injection. Waste of time IMO.

julianjym

Thanks Treevet....you're right, I'm pretty wedded to the idea of the soil injection primarily because of the reading I've done of the research studies and of my past experience with drilling...HOWEVER, I respect your judgement because you have real-world experience with this...I have eight Black and Coastal Live Oaks ranging in circumference of 48" - 140" which are close to the house and are of primary concern. With direct injecting, what would you recommend????Do you inject the imidicloprid into the tree at knee-level, chest high or right at the base??? What Mauget concentrations? Do you have to water the hell out of them after application??? Is the Arborjet method the best???Thanks for all your time, I really appreciate it...Jim

treevet

How far away has this borer been detected?

julianjym

Geographically it is in my neighborhood - my oaks have staining on the trunks and have lost two already (one black, one coastal)...is this what you're asking????

treevet

Yes, has the staining been identified as the borer? If so you need to ID their life cycle and have the poison available to them when the larvae start feeding. You need some local professional advice to augment what I have given you and the forester. In other words, you need to make a decision fast with a game plan and then implement at the right time. Good luck.

julianjym

Treevet...I'm in contact with the forest service entomologist that discovered the bug...he's starting his insecticide studies this week (probably just the setting up phase of GPS'ing the trees, etc.)but I think he's trying multiple approaches...I'm going to study your suggestions for the next few days and then get going...hopefully in april sometime...thanks again for your time and patience,,,Jim

treevet

You're welcome. I'll let you know if/when I hear from that OSU researcher with anything.

julianjym

Treevet...I'm going to take your advise and drill the systemic with some kind of imidicloprid solution...Your experience logic just can't be refuted!!!!! Do you have to seal the holes after the application???? Thanks....jim

treevet

No they will compartmentalize and close when spring starts. Do not go very deep at all. You just need a direct hit on the xylem. Anything more or less ....unnecessary and injurious, or ineffective respectively. All this information will come with the units or, better yet, a seminar.

julianjym

Treevet...I can't seem to find a source for Imicide for homeowners...Do you know of such a place???? Also, what formulation would you use - 2ml, 3ml or 4ml??? Your best guess for my situation would be great...Thanks, jim

treevet

I would never guess on dose, the company will tell you.

I am surprised the units are not available to HO's as this is an enclosed system.

I am surprised all the time tho.

julianjym

The only product I can find that's similiar is the "Pointer" ampules...Would you allow me to contact you directly??? Thanks, jim

pcarborist

Jim, there is a third option besides soil drench and injections and that is foliar application. Foliar applications are relatively fast acting and economical. You said you have eight Black and Coastal Live Oaks ranging in circumference of 48" - 140", just make sure the contractor has a high pressure nozzle that can really soak the trunk up high. Talk to the Forest entomologist about what chemical is most effective but I'd guess Carbaryl or Permethrin. Also ask the entomologist about Verbenone. One final thing, the USFS news-release failed to mention do not let your oaks get drought stressed. If they're in the landscape and getting irrigated that's fine but if you have native oaks in more naturalized areas you might want to think about supplemental irrigation.

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parkcityarborist

treevet

Yes I had not considered the foliar treatment as our ash are deciduous and a foliar spray would not be timely.

I received an email from the researcher and all he had is the same treatments we use may be effective on other flatheaded borers. He also mentioned that this outbreak may be linked to the hot weather and prolonged drought in S. Cal.

The main consideration is having the goods at the right spot at the right time when the Gold spotted oak borer takes its first bite. They need to die on their first bite.

I guess there is a fourth option and that would be Safari with Pentrabark (a trunk saturation application systemic). We have a thread on TW if you search it on EAB and there is some talk on there of it. I used the first year and switched.

If you want to talk to me personally pm me but I have honestly given you all I have. I have researched EAB extensively but my town is ten miles from an active infestation and I have no first hand treatment data from my applications but I am treating client's trees.

julianjym

Thank you both for your input...Treevet I was thinking about talking to you directly about maybe buying the Mauget from you but there might be forum restrictions against such practices...
PCArborist I was hoping to do the treatment myself...I'll ask Tom what he's using on the test trees...I'll research your suggestions on the foliar applications...Yes the trees are stressed from the drought but I think this borer is extremely aggressive and will attack any coastal, black or canyon oak it gets it's teeth into...I see you're in Park City, Utah...I have a friend that had a newspaper there, maybe still does...named Kieth Aran...
Anyway, thank you both for all the great advise especially you Treevet - thank you so much for sharing your expertise with a dumba$$ from So. cal... Jim

treevet

Your are quite welcome Jim. Don't undersell yourself. You have good (great) intentions. Most could claim less. Good luck, keep us posted please and maybe some pictures.

julianjym

Since my last post I've conclusively determined that I have the gold spotted borer in some of my Oaks...I going to go with Treevet's advise and inject the trees with Imidicloprid directly.My question is: the manufacturer recommends drilling a hole 1/2" deep at a 45 degree angle at the root flare...Is this the right depth??? I measured the bark on a already dead Black Oak and the bark was 1" thick at the base. Do I have to get the drug all the way through to be effective????? Any rules of thumb???? Many Thanks....Jim

tlsquyres

There is now a product called Bayer Tree and Shrub, available at Grangetto's, that is a soil drench. Supposed to work well as a prophylactic. Apply around or just inside of the drip line via holes drilled appr. 8" deep and 3' apart. A large auger bit works well. Must re-apply annually.

Eric Frei

Have a look at the PDF attached .... is that the product?

Attached Files

original_Tree_Shrub_Insect_Control_1gal_CON.pdf (1.58 MB, 47 views)

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