Roots rising to attention

sandybottom · 18th August 2007, 10:42 AM

Help...I live in Montana. Our lawn is beautiful and green. Our dirt is almost all sand. We have five poplar type trees...all about twenty years old...more than thirty feet high. Problem??? The saplings that pop up all over our yard are easy to rid..we simply mow over them while they're fresh and young. It's the big boy roots that are starting to appear throughout our yard that are worrying me. Dinner plate size root wads are everywhere. Are our trees surfacing through the light sandy soil because of too much watering? We only water our lawns once a week and when we do it quickly sinks through the sand to the clay six feet below turf.
Any help would be nice..Thank you
Sandybottom

mdvaden · 18th August 2007, 01:38 PM

No, that's just what they can do in a lot of soil types.

Probably one of the situations where I'd add a little soil to smooth the grade and overseed.

Not "level" the grade - but smooth the grade. Enough to avoid mower damage.

Not inches of soil either. Inch and less.

Ekka · 18th August 2007, 02:13 PM

Sounds similar to our ficus (fig) species over here, surface roots are just what they do.

Have you considered swapping the lawn out for garden/mulched areas where it's bad? Just trying to expand your options.

Increasing soil ht like suggested may have to be done frequently.

sandybottom · 18th August 2007, 04:14 PM

Thanks. I've been wanting to build little garden oasis's. Now it sounds like I have a ligit excuse.

Sean Freeman · 18th August 2007, 06:44 PM

I agree with the advice you've been given, especially the mulching option... it can be really surprising how two trees of the same species planted in close proximity to each other can have very different root growth characteristics. These are two Khaya senegalensis planted in a school here in Townsville, one has dramatic surface roots as you can see!! The other has not produced any surface roots to speak of at all.

sandybottom · 19th August 2007, 01:07 AM

wow, my trees are not even close to that exposed. I guess my biggest worry is not the yard but are my trees still firm to the ground even they are starting to show through?

Ekka · 19th August 2007, 01:25 AM

Firmer than if you didn't see them, trust me on that.

treeseer · 19th August 2007, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdvaden

Not inches of soil either. Inch and less.

Mario, if the added soil is loose, is there really a great fear of smothering? I think not. Most urban trees are eroded due to the removal of their leaves, wind, water, and other factors, so it makes sense to replace soil to make up for what has been taken away.

Ekka · 19th August 2007, 04:48 AM

Sean

Two things if I may.

#1 Those roots are a trip hazard.

#2 There's grass so mower and whipper snipper damage likely.

Does it matter or anyone care/complain?

Sean Freeman · 19th August 2007, 05:21 AM

Yep, right on both counts, my experience is also that the contact damage surface roots experience from mowers etc create cylces of wounding that with the callous and woundwood production actually increases the size of the tripping hazard...Its worse too, just out of sight in the photo is a fire hydrant that the roots are rapidly enveloping along with the fire main!

Yes they know all about it and have been given numerous options to remove or manage the problem as is often the case with institutions staff changes and different priorities result in inaction being the non-decision being made.

A most unsuitable species choice for the small space available....long term removal and replacement is the best option.

Ekka · 19th August 2007, 06:31 AM

Be a heck of a stump grind.

mdvaden · 20th August 2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

Mario, if the added soil is loose, is there really a great fear of smothering? I think not. Most urban trees are eroded due to the removal of their leaves, wind, water, and other factors, so it makes sense to replace soil to make up for what has been taken away.

In lawn areas, not usual, but it still happens sometimes. No accident that the lawn starts at sidewalk height on the the downslope, and in 10 years is 2" above the sidewalk concrete

Good point.

But the erosion you mention if prevalent in a lot of areas of Portland.

Sure, replacement makes a lot of sense.

a_lopa · 20th August 2007, 02:02 PM

Mulching them would send out the smaller hair like roots from the exposed roots?

Ekka · 20th August 2007, 02:07 PM

Not directly off those big roots but certainly of any strikers and laterals below them.

Often when I'm grinding ficus roots I'll plunge the cutter wheel down in the soil and reverse along cutting roots. Then I move over say 2m and do the same, with a mattock lift out the root. They always have lots of roots coming off below them, it's not like lifting up a piece of tube or pipe but more like peeling it off a velcro surface.

treeseer · 20th August 2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Often when I'm grinding ficus roots I'll plunge the cutter wheel down in the soil and reverse along cutting roots. Then I move over say 2m and do the same, with a mattock lift out the root. They always have lots of roots coming off below them, it's not like lifting up a piece of tube or pipe but more like peeling it off a velcro surface.

Gosh i wish i could reply to your post but since it is anecdotal i cannot stoop that low.

Seriously, good info; i was about to reply that branching from the underside could be more likely. Re tree and space, i can visualize a nice garden in there after soil and groundcover are installed.

remove and replace, and then wait 20 years? Not a plan this old man wants to hear.

Ekka · 20th August 2007, 08:06 PM

Great point, which should commence a new thread titled:-

Plants suitable for planting under trees - under planting trees

I have a few suggestions.

Bromeliads, their root system is predominantly to hang on not to draw from the soil, they rely on shade and hold water in their cup/throats.

Orchids would also be good as would many other epiphytes.

treeseer · 20th August 2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Great point, which should commence a new thread titled:-

Plants suitable for planting under trees - under planting trees

I have a few suggestions.

Bromeliads, their root system is predominantly to hang on not to draw from the soil, they rely on shade and hold water in their cup/throats.

Orchids would also be good as would many other epiphytes.

yeah but none of those are very foot friendly. we have shallowrooted vines like vinca, euonymus, helix, any of that familiar?

18th August 2007, 10:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
sandybottom Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: montana Posts: 10	Roots rising to attention Help...I live in Montana. Our lawn is beautiful and green. Our dirt is almost all sand. We have five poplar type trees...all about twenty years old...more than thirty feet high. Problem??? The saplings that pop up all over our yard are easy to rid..we simply mow over them while they're fresh and young. It's the big boy roots that are starting to appear throughout our yard that are worrying me. Dinner plate size root wads are everywhere. Are our trees surfacing through the light sandy soil because of too much watering? We only water our lawns once a week and when we do it quickly sinks through the sand to the clay six feet below turf. Any help would be nice..Thank you Sandybottom

18th August 2007, 01:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
mdvaden Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 564	No, that's just what they can do in a lot of soil types. Probably one of the situations where I'd add a little soil to smooth the grade and overseed. Not "level" the grade - but smooth the grade. Enough to avoid mower damage. Not inches of soil either. Inch and less. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

18th August 2007, 02:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Sounds similar to our ficus (fig) species over here, surface roots are just what they do. Have you considered swapping the lawn out for garden/mulched areas where it's bad? Just trying to expand your options. Increasing soil ht like suggested may have to be done frequently. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

19th August 2007, 01:25 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Firmer than if you didn't see them, trust me on that. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

19th August 2007, 04:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Sean Two things if I may. #1 Those roots are a trip hazard. #2 There's grass so mower and whipper snipper damage likely. Does it matter or anyone care/complain? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

18th August 2007, 04:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
sandybottom Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: montana Posts: 10	Thanks. I've been wanting to build little garden oasis's. Now it sounds like I have a ligit excuse.

19th August 2007, 01:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
sandybottom Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: montana Posts: 10	wow, my trees are not even close to that exposed. I guess my biggest worry is not the yard but are my trees still firm to the ground even they are starting to show through?

19th August 2007, 05:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,645	Yep, right on both counts, my experience is also that the contact damage surface roots experience from mowers etc create cylces of wounding that with the callous and woundwood production actually increases the size of the tripping hazard...Its worse too, just out of sight in the photo is a fire hydrant that the roots are rapidly enveloping along with the fire main! Yes they know all about it and have been given numerous options to remove or manage the problem as is often the case with institutions staff changes and different priorities result in inaction being the non-decision being made. A most unsuitable species choice for the small space available....long term removal and replacement is the best option. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

19th August 2007, 06:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Be a heck of a stump grind. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

20th August 2007, 02:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 866	Mulching them would send out the smaller hair like roots from the exposed roots? __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

20th August 2007, 02:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Not directly off those big roots but certainly of any strikers and laterals below them. Often when I'm grinding ficus roots I'll plunge the cutter wheel down in the soil and reverse along cutting roots. Then I move over say 2m and do the same, with a mattock lift out the root. They always have lots of roots coming off below them, it's not like lifting up a piece of tube or pipe but more like peeling it off a velcro surface. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

20th August 2007, 08:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Great point, which should commence a new thread titled:- Plants suitable for planting under trees - under planting trees I have a few suggestions. Bromeliads, their root system is predominantly to hang on not to draw from the soil, they rely on shade and hold water in their cup/throats. Orchids would also be good as would many other epiphytes. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors