Reasoning with customers

Therrin · 5th January 2008, 06:56 PM

Next week I'm supposed to prune a really messy multi-leadered pine.

The h.o. insists on having the pruned cuts covered with tar or something, he even mentioned using Thompson's water seal. Says he doesn't want bugs getting in there.

What are the propper arguments to use as to why this isn't a good idea, or how it hurts the tree, or how the tree heals naturally without this kind of treatment?

newguy18 · 5th January 2008, 09:36 PM

From what i've heard paints are actually worse than bare wounds.heres a link on pruning and wound dressings.
Proper Pruning Techniques

quercus · 5th January 2008, 09:49 PM

Research from the past has proven that several fungi actually thrive better under wound covering paint then they would have without it. Covering the wound is actually something that the tree does for itself to a certain point. That's one of the reason why you shouldn't prune in wintertime. In the past, when we didn't know any better, we used such a product as well. We used dendrosan to cover it. Now we have a spray for that and we do sterilize pruning equipment between customers. Especially important when pruning fruit baring trees.

mdvaden · 7th January 2008, 05:38 PM

So is it an oak?

That's one exception sometimes.

Oak wilt protection is not supposed to require wound dressing if cuts are made in winter in many areas.

Are you in California?

Here's a starter link...

How to Identify, Prevent, and Control Oak Wilt

If the page is up to date, sounds like Ekka and some others should not encounter this one.

newguy18 · 7th January 2008, 07:24 PM

its a multi leadered pine Mario.

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 01:09 AM

[quote=Therrin;17058]Next week I'm supposed to prune a really messy multi-leadered pine.[quote]

Nope, as I stated, it's a pine. Still, thanks for the advice though guys. I've found that most of my customers are willing to go along with my guidance, since I'm a persuasive type of guy. I just don't tell most of them that my guidance comes from tens of thousands of miles away

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 01:49 AM

I used that Thompsons water seal stuff on outdoor timber structure and even concrete ... it's bloody good stuff and the water just beads up and runs off ... but a year later that all stopped.

I dont hold much hope for it on living trees though and pines usually ooze resin anyway. Make sure they're watered well prior to pruning and the resin will do the job.

Here's some really whacky advice, get some eucalyptus oil or aerosol eucalyptus spray and spray the wound as soon as you cut it, that's keep bugs off for maybe 6 weeks.

But paint, waste of time load of rubbish. And from the above info you can see the longivity of any application is lost. Wounds take time to seal over, the smaller the wound the faster it closes, the healthier the tree the better the defences and so on ... best the HO invests in soil conditioning, water and mulch.

Oh, I suppose you cant water them you're in the middle of winter and they're a little dormant in some real cold temperature right?

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 02:08 AM

As far as watering them, it's more a problem of getting the water TO them. It only hits freezing at night, but the real problem is that this pine is on his property just across the main road at the edge of his property line. No hoses or anything. I'd have to fill a 55gal drum and set it out there.

Should I truly NOT prune it right now? He wants it done, and I'd hate to think of *him* out there with a saw hacking away at it.

I lived next to him for 2 years while I was managing an 18 horse ranch, so we know eachother a bit. Maybe I can talk some sense into him. You know how that goes though, telling old people how to do things (70 yrs old or so)

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 02:18 AM

Maybe it's been wet enough anyway? What's the rainfall been like?

See here where I am seasons dont matter much as it's warm enough year round. However we have lots of crappy slash pines (pinus elliottii) and when they're dry they dont ooze resin and can be a little snappy.

From the perspective of growing over with callus wood they're a little hopeless on that aspect too so I think resin flow and small cuts is the key.

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 02:21 AM

Ekka,

The pines around here aren't having any trouble bleeding like a sieve when they're cut. And you're right, there has been quite a bit of rainfall lately (5" in the last week) so maybe it'd be just fine for some pruning. It certainly needs it. Lots of stuff towards ground level which has targets with passing vehicles, as well as a significant amount of deadwood. It's kinda a convoluted pine, I'll post pictures. I'll be up there on Friday assessing it.

quercus · 8th January 2008, 10:58 AM

You shouldn't prune too many live branches in wintertime. Cutting dead wood is OK though... Like Ekka said... don't make too many cuts on live wood and keep them small if you can.

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 11:10 AM

Isn't that pretty much one of the rules of pruning quercus?I always thought don't remove any more living tissue than what you have too.

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 08:08 PM

Well some live wood is gonna have to come out anyway, it needs a crown lift. Keeps whacking people's cars as they drive by.

quercus · 9th January 2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Isn't that pretty much one of the rules of pruning quercus?I always thought don't remove any more living tissue than what you have too.

Yes it is...

5th January 2008, 06:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Reasoning with customers Next week I'm supposed to prune a really messy multi-leadered pine. The h.o. insists on having the pruned cuts covered with tar or something, he even mentioned using Thompson's water seal. Says he doesn't want bugs getting in there. What are the propper arguments to use as to why this isn't a good idea, or how it hurts the tree, or how the tree heals naturally without this kind of treatment? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

5th January 2008, 09:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,400	Re: Reasoning with customers From what i've heard paints are actually worse than bare wounds.heres a link on pruning and wound dressings. Proper Pruning Techniques __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

5th January 2008, 09:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 424	Re: Reasoning with customers Research from the past has proven that several fungi actually thrive better under wound covering paint then they would have without it. Covering the wound is actually something that the tree does for itself to a certain point. That's one of the reason why you shouldn't prune in wintertime. In the past, when we didn't know any better, we used such a product as well. We used dendrosan to cover it. Now we have a spray for that and we do sterilize pruning equipment between customers. Especially important when pruning fruit baring trees.

7th January 2008, 05:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
mdvaden Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 465	Re: Reasoning with customers So is it an oak? That's one exception sometimes. Oak wilt protection is not supposed to require wound dressing if cuts are made in winter in many areas. Are you in California? Here's a starter link... How to Identify, Prevent, and Control Oak Wilt If the page is up to date, sounds like Ekka and some others should not encounter this one. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

7th January 2008, 07:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,400	Re: Reasoning with customers its a multi leadered pine Mario. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

8th January 2008, 01:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Reasoning with customers [quote=Therrin;17058]Next week I'm supposed to prune a really messy multi-leadered pine.[quote] Nope, as I stated, it's a pine. Still, thanks for the advice though guys. I've found that most of my customers are willing to go along with my guidance, since I'm a persuasive type of guy. I just don't tell most of them that my guidance comes from tens of thousands of miles away __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

8th January 2008, 01:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 8,009	Re: Reasoning with customers I used that Thompsons water seal stuff on outdoor timber structure and even concrete ... it's bloody good stuff and the water just beads up and runs off ... but a year later that all stopped. I dont hold much hope for it on living trees though and pines usually ooze resin anyway. Make sure they're watered well prior to pruning and the resin will do the job. Here's some really whacky advice, get some eucalyptus oil or aerosol eucalyptus spray and spray the wound as soon as you cut it, that's keep bugs off for maybe 6 weeks. But paint, waste of time load of rubbish. And from the above info you can see the longivity of any application is lost. Wounds take time to seal over, the smaller the wound the faster it closes, the healthier the tree the better the defences and so on ... best the HO invests in soil conditioning, water and mulch. Oh, I suppose you cant water them you're in the middle of winter and they're a little dormant in some real cold temperature right? __________________ Tree World Legal Fighting Fund\| Protect Your Rights to Freedom Of Speech\| Pledge Today Tree World Picture Competition\| $300 of Prizes Up for Grabs Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th January 2008, 02:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Reasoning with customers As far as watering them, it's more a problem of getting the water TO them. It only hits freezing at night, but the real problem is that this pine is on his property just across the main road at the edge of his property line. No hoses or anything. I'd have to fill a 55gal drum and set it out there. Should I truly NOT prune it right now? He wants it done, and I'd hate to think of him out there with a saw hacking away at it. I lived next to him for 2 years while I was managing an 18 horse ranch, so we know eachother a bit. Maybe I can talk some sense into him. You know how that goes though, telling old people how to do things (70 yrs old or so) __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

8th January 2008, 02:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 8,009	Re: Reasoning with customers Maybe it's been wet enough anyway? What's the rainfall been like? See here where I am seasons dont matter much as it's warm enough year round. However we have lots of crappy slash pines (pinus elliottii) and when they're dry they dont ooze resin and can be a little snappy. From the perspective of growing over with callus wood they're a little hopeless on that aspect too so I think resin flow and small cuts is the key. __________________ Tree World Legal Fighting Fund\| Protect Your Rights to Freedom Of Speech\| Pledge Today Tree World Picture Competition\| $300 of Prizes Up for Grabs Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th January 2008, 02:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Reasoning with customers Ekka, The pines around here aren't having any trouble bleeding like a sieve when they're cut. And you're right, there has been quite a bit of rainfall lately (5" in the last week) so maybe it'd be just fine for some pruning. It certainly needs it. Lots of stuff towards ground level which has targets with passing vehicles, as well as a significant amount of deadwood. It's kinda a convoluted pine, I'll post pictures. I'll be up there on Friday assessing it. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

8th January 2008, 10:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 424	Re: Reasoning with customers You shouldn't prune too many live branches in wintertime. Cutting dead wood is OK though... Like Ekka said... don't make too many cuts on live wood and keep them small if you can.

8th January 2008, 11:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,400	Re: Reasoning with customers Isn't that pretty much one of the rules of pruning quercus?I always thought don't remove any more living tissue than what you have too. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

8th January 2008, 08:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Reasoning with customers Well some live wood is gonna have to come out anyway, it needs a crown lift. Keeps whacking people's cars as they drive by. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode