purple beech tree

dotty21 · 21st May 2007, 10:18 AM

Hi All,
I have bought myself a purple beech tree which is a bit about 7 ft tall. Its branches are a bit short...i think perhaps that i didnt buy a good specimen! (In my defence though i am a novice gardener)
Is there any way of making it fuller by pruning it???? Has any got a picture of what it should look like?? Should it have branches just at the top or all of the way down the trunk?
I believe that in 60 years it should be 60 ft tall...
Any advice much appreciated
Dottyx

Sean Freeman · 21st May 2007, 02:25 PM

Hi Dotty, first of all well done for choosing such a beautiful tree, one of my all time favourite autumn trees, truely magnificent, plenty of raking up mind you!

Purple beech ~ Fagus sylvatica will grow extremely weel in Derby's rich soils, avoid areas constantly wet, marshy ground for instance. It will prefer soil with a pH of 5 - 6.

Without a photo of your particular tree it is hard to give you advice that is relevant to your specific problems, however here is my view on the issues relating to the problem you describe;

Unbalanced pattern of branches-top heavy, unfortunately this is all too common due to poor nursery practices, growing saplings too close together, and not properly managing the young trees from the start. At 7 foot your sapling is still very young so all is not entirely lost. Lack of lower branches on young trees tends to result in poor trunk taper, a lack of normal necessary thickening as you move down the stem towards the ground, and this is very important. Without that taper your sapling is likely to be unable to support itself when in the ground.

Pruning a young beech tree (that is to be grown as a single specimen tree) should not be necessary unless there are very obvious structural problems relating to crossing/touching branches very weak branch unions, diseased or dead branches....all of these problems would normally result in the young tree being culled by the nursery or just not getting bought. You cannot prune a young tree like F sylvatica with the hope of thickening its growth habit and end up in 50yrs with a large specimen with a strong natural form and structure.

My advice is relation to pruning your sapling is don't, whether your young tree is worth planting and persisting with entirely depends on the extent of the imbalance, and how badly this has impacted on the normal stem taper you would ideally want to see in a tree of this age. (Again a photo would be really helpful).
To be honest it really depends on how much effort you want to commit to the young tree too, you can (if you want to) plant out saplings with poor taper properly supported by two wooden stakes outside the existing root ball/planting hole with supports attached to the stem form each stake enabling the sapling to move but not sway so far over as to bend and distort the growth of the tree. This support may have to remain for a maximum of two years, after that time remove the stakes before they adversely impact on root growth. I have attached a PDF illustrating this.

16819.pdf

Personally I would probably buy a replacement sapling with better form, that has been better looked after by the nursery to begin with, a great many of the problems we have to deal with as Arborists are a result of poor nursery or management practices when the tree was very young.

dotty21 · 22nd May 2007, 12:59 AM

Many thanks Sean.
I'm abit of a sucker for the ill or weak (hence the job!) so i think i'll plant it out and see how it goes. Perhaps with a little love and attention it will be ok..
Hope all is well in Austrailia, I was there in 1998 and fell in love with the place.
If you get the time could you have a VB for me??? Happy times..sigh...
Thanks again, Dottyx

TrevMcRev · 22nd May 2007, 01:26 AM

I'm sure Boa will be MORE than happy to oblige

Good advice by the way.

Sean Freeman · 22nd May 2007, 02:15 AM

Ha ha Trev, you'd be hard pressed to get VB past my lips, mountain goat perhaps yes or Mallee bull heavy

Dotty where in Derby are you? What suburb?

dotty21 · 23rd May 2007, 12:57 AM

Hiya
I'm a little village in South Derbyshire. Its only about 20 min drive to Derby city though
Dotty

Sean Freeman · 23rd May 2007, 01:15 AM

Sounds like you're not far from my parents who live in Ticknall.

dotty21 · 23rd May 2007, 11:48 AM

Oh my goodness, only about 5 minutes! I live in Aston-on-Trent! When did you move out to Australia? Do the kids from Ticknall go to Chellaston school? This is where children from Melbourne/Barrow and Weston go.
What a small world..
Thanks for the advice, and by the way whats wrong with VB? I dont remember Mallee or goat beer!, Dottyx

Sean Freeman · 23rd May 2007, 01:00 PM

I came out here in 88' last time I was down your way the little school in Ticknall was still open 97' but it might have closed since then not sure, hardly recoknised the place what with that big road they built through the countryside! Have a feeling (strong) that I have visited a pub or two in Aston, isn't there a canal nearby or am I getting confused with Western? BTW there is some lovely woodland still to the west of Chellaston, and of course the lime pits and Caulk park in Ticknall, some of the best veteran oaks, chesnuts and hawthorn trees in South Derbyshire there.

The trouble with VB is it doesn't know what it is...larger or bitter, having gron up on real ales the increase in microbreweries around Victoria were a lifesaver for me, Mountain Goat and Malleebul are both part of that movement.

Good luck with the Beech

Ekka · 23rd May 2007, 01:42 PM

I'm a micro brewer, like pilsener style beers, lots of hops and aroma.

Mike Poor · 23rd May 2007, 10:03 PM

Hey dotty21, I agree with Boa, I wouldn't worry about pruning for 3 yrs. Let it get it's roots established first. Here is an aerial view, If there is one tree that stands out in the growing season it's purple beech. One of my favorites!

dotty21 · 27th May 2007, 10:19 AM

Please may i ask another question?
I planted my tree this weekend and it looks fab. Do i need to feed it with anything, other than water? Is there a liquid feed which it may like?
Thanks All,
Dottyx

Sean Freeman · 27th May 2007, 02:10 PM

Hi Dotty, I would doubt that your soil is lacking in any significant elements, however it is always a good idea to help new plantings along, my recommendation without carrying out a soil test is to water your tree well with a dilute solution of seaweed extract and fish emulsion, also since I suspect rather like the rest of the region you live in the soil may be slightly alkaline spread a layer (2" thick, not touching the stem of the tree out as wide as you can) of aged wood chip..not fresh green stuff but well aged and broken down. If you can't find that try the local mushroom growers and market gardeners for a source. (mushroom compost is excellent)

21st May 2007, 10:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
dotty21 Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Derby, England Posts: 5	purple beech tree Hi All, I have bought myself a purple beech tree which is a bit about 7 ft tall. Its branches are a bit short...i think perhaps that i didnt buy a good specimen! (In my defence though i am a novice gardener) Is there any way of making it fuller by pruning it???? Has any got a picture of what it should look like?? Should it have branches just at the top or all of the way down the trunk? I believe that in 60 years it should be 60 ft tall... Any advice much appreciated Dottyx

21st May 2007, 02:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Hi Dotty, first of all well done for choosing such a beautiful tree, one of my all time favourite autumn trees, truely magnificent, plenty of raking up mind you! Purple beech ~ Fagus sylvatica will grow extremely weel in Derby's rich soils, avoid areas constantly wet, marshy ground for instance. It will prefer soil with a pH of 5 - 6. Without a photo of your particular tree it is hard to give you advice that is relevant to your specific problems, however here is my view on the issues relating to the problem you describe; Unbalanced pattern of branches-top heavy, unfortunately this is all too common due to poor nursery practices, growing saplings too close together, and not properly managing the young trees from the start. At 7 foot your sapling is still very young so all is not entirely lost. Lack of lower branches on young trees tends to result in poor trunk taper, a lack of normal necessary thickening as you move down the stem towards the ground, and this is very important. Without that taper your sapling is likely to be unable to support itself when in the ground. Pruning a young beech tree (that is to be grown as a single specimen tree) should not be necessary unless there are very obvious structural problems relating to crossing/touching branches very weak branch unions, diseased or dead branches....all of these problems would normally result in the young tree being culled by the nursery or just not getting bought. You cannot prune a young tree like F sylvatica with the hope of thickening its growth habit and end up in 50yrs with a large specimen with a strong natural form and structure. My advice is relation to pruning your sapling is don't, whether your young tree is worth planting and persisting with entirely depends on the extent of the imbalance, and how badly this has impacted on the normal stem taper you would ideally want to see in a tree of this age. (Again a photo would be really helpful). To be honest it really depends on how much effort you want to commit to the young tree too, you can (if you want to) plant out saplings with poor taper properly supported by two wooden stakes outside the existing root ball/planting hole with supports attached to the stem form each stake enabling the sapling to move but not sway so far over as to bend and distort the growth of the tree. This support may have to remain for a maximum of two years, after that time remove the stakes before they adversely impact on root growth. I have attached a PDF illustrating this. 16819.pdf Personally I would probably buy a replacement sapling with better form, that has been better looked after by the nursery to begin with, a great many of the problems we have to deal with as Arborists are a result of poor nursery or management practices when the tree was very young. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

22nd May 2007, 12:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
dotty21 Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Derby, England Posts: 5	Thaks Sean Many thanks Sean. I'm abit of a sucker for the ill or weak (hence the job!) so i think i'll plant it out and see how it goes. Perhaps with a little love and attention it will be ok.. Hope all is well in Austrailia, I was there in 1998 and fell in love with the place. If you get the time could you have a VB for me??? Happy times..sigh... Thanks again, Dottyx

22nd May 2007, 01:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 734	I'm sure Boa will be MORE than happy to oblige Good advice by the way. __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

22nd May 2007, 02:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Ha ha Trev, you'd be hard pressed to get VB past my lips, mountain goat perhaps yes or Mallee bull heavy Dotty where in Derby are you? What suburb? __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

23rd May 2007, 12:57 AM	#6 (permalink)
dotty21 Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Derby, England Posts: 5	Hiya I'm a little village in South Derbyshire. Its only about 20 min drive to Derby city though Dotty

23rd May 2007, 01:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Sounds like you're not far from my parents who live in Ticknall. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

23rd May 2007, 11:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
dotty21 Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Derby, England Posts: 5	Oh my goodness, only about 5 minutes! I live in Aston-on-Trent! When did you move out to Australia? Do the kids from Ticknall go to Chellaston school? This is where children from Melbourne/Barrow and Weston go. What a small world.. Thanks for the advice, and by the way whats wrong with VB? I dont remember Mallee or goat beer!, Dottyx

23rd May 2007, 01:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	I came out here in 88' last time I was down your way the little school in Ticknall was still open 97' but it might have closed since then not sure, hardly recoknised the place what with that big road they built through the countryside! Have a feeling (strong) that I have visited a pub or two in Aston, isn't there a canal nearby or am I getting confused with Western? BTW there is some lovely woodland still to the west of Chellaston, and of course the lime pits and Caulk park in Ticknall, some of the best veteran oaks, chesnuts and hawthorn trees in South Derbyshire there. The trouble with VB is it doesn't know what it is...larger or bitter, having gron up on real ales the increase in microbreweries around Victoria were a lifesaver for me, Mountain Goat and Malleebul are both part of that movement. Good luck with the Beech __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

23rd May 2007, 01:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	I'm a micro brewer, like pilsener style beers, lots of hops and aroma. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

27th May 2007, 10:19 AM	#12 (permalink)
dotty21 Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Derby, England Posts: 5	Please may i ask another question? I planted my tree this weekend and it looks fab. Do i need to feed it with anything, other than water? Is there a liquid feed which it may like? Thanks All, Dottyx

27th May 2007, 02:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Hi Dotty, I would doubt that your soil is lacking in any significant elements, however it is always a good idea to help new plantings along, my recommendation without carrying out a soil test is to water your tree well with a dilute solution of seaweed extract and fish emulsion, also since I suspect rather like the rest of the region you live in the soil may be slightly alkaline spread a layer (2" thick, not touching the stem of the tree out as wide as you can) of aged wood chip..not fresh green stuff but well aged and broken down. If you can't find that try the local mushroom growers and market gardeners for a source. (mushroom compost is excellent) __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

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