Problem With Orange Trees

TOMANGE · 12th January 2008, 09:05 AM

We have just inherited 2 orange trees a tangerine tree and a plum tree (hardly an orchard) when we bought a property in Portugal mid 2007 and there seems to be a problem with the citrus trees as they look rather unwell.

First thing is, at the moment we don?t live there and only get there a few times a year, so for nourishment they just get what god gives them so the leaves look rather wilted and there are some dead branches here and there.

Also it looks like they have some sort of infestation on the back of some of the leaves as per the photo, also some of the fruit has become mouldy or is splitting whilst on the tree.

Could anyone please give us an indication as to what the problems are and how to correct/treat them as it would be a pity if they died.

Thanking you all in anticipation for passing on your wealth of knowledge to us.

Tomang

StrictlyPalms · 12th January 2008, 10:18 AM

While I'm not an arborist, (yet), I have been growing my own citrus in my back yard here in Orlando, Florida USA, for the past 5 years and I went through similar problems, at least with the splitting. I found a pretty good paper from the University of California, at this address here.

http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/8038.pdf

Generally attributed to stress and watering inconsistencies, the rinds become rigid and can't expand with the fluctuation of water/sugar flow into the fruit and the rind splits open. Read through the file and it will shed a bit of light on how you can combat this. Although, since you aren't there that often, you may have to hire someone or set up an automatic watering system.

Not seeing a Picture attachment. Try to edit and reattach if you can.

My citrus: Blood Oranges, Ponderosa Lemons, and Plain Navel Oranges. The lemons grow as big as your 2 fists together some years and no longer split since I've kept the watering consistent. I had a problem with leaf miners a few years ago but haven't seen them since I used some citrus based insecticide recommended by my county horticulturist.

here's an example of what the miners do to the leaves.

Like I said, I'm not a pro (yet) so if any of the other folks see me saying something incorrect, please let me know. This is just what I've experienced in my own yard.

newguy18 · 12th January 2008, 05:50 PM

With out a picture its real hard to say but yeah what Tom said have someone water them or automatic watering.

StrictlyPalms · 12th January 2008, 07:18 PM

Actually, Tomange has a photo on another thread which shows the leaf with some serious mold or fungus on it. And Tom is the guy who took the pic I pulled off the internet. I figured it would be good to give credit where credit is due.
edit [I'll Move it over, I forgot we can just cut/paste the img location]

StrictlyPalms (Todd Weber)

newguy18 · 12th January 2008, 07:25 PM

t needs some fertilizer.Have your county agent[if you have one]take a soil sample usually free and give a recomendation for a fertilization schedule for the tree.DO NOT OVER FERTILIZE THE TREE!!!

StrictlyPalms · 12th January 2008, 07:26 PM

I shrank the image a little for better viewing.

newguy18 · 12th January 2008, 07:29 PM

Thanks but if that came right off the tree prior to picture then it need a lto of fertilizing.I can't say what without knowing whats in the soil.I t might be real close to dying or dead already.

StrictlyPalms · 12th January 2008, 07:37 PM

I agree, serious problems there. But it almost looks like there's 2 leaves stuck together (insects maybe?) I know there are some types of insects that will stitch or stick leaves together to create a cocoon here in the states. I'm not familiar with European pests so I wouldn't hazard a guess.

I know most local governments will take samples and diagnose for you though. Soil, leaf, even water if you can find the local office. Here in Florida its usually free. I dealt with my leaf miner problem this way.

Good luck with getting that tree cured, there's nothing better than being able to go out in the morning and picking your own fruit for breakfast.

TOMANGE · 15th January 2008, 01:09 PM

Thanks to you all for your input with our problem. When we last saw the trees it looked like the rainy season is upon us, and it has certainly made a difference to the trees as the leaves are looking quite healthy apart from a few dead twigs and the infection as mentioned before which only affects a few leaves. I dont know anything about soil inspections etc in Portugal I will have to look into it.

One more thing, when is the best time to prune orange trees?

Regards

Tomange

newguy18 · 15th January 2008, 01:27 PM

In winter when they're dormant.if you post some pics of the trees someone can show you how to go about pruning it as well.

StrictlyPalms · 15th January 2008, 01:31 PM

- Pruning during the dormant season will enhance structure and distribute fruiting wood.
- Pruning after it blooms will thin the amount of fruit.

I know my lemon tree has to have about half its blooms pruned back or the entire tree is at risk of falling over once it forms fruit. It's not that large yet that it can support lots of fruit.

azrael · 15th January 2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOMANGE

...when is the best time to prune orange trees?

How old is this tree.... I AM flying blind here without a picture of the tree, and the cultural conditions it is in.

Orange trees generally DONT need pruning...exceptions would be to remove gall affected wood, or to trim back any (extreme) waywards. Same with limes, cumquats and grapefruit. I dont know about tangerines.
Lemons, however, will need to be be controlled with regular light trimming, as they can as can shoot away...and quickly.

Citrus generally should be quite compact and dense in the crown...(thats opposite what deciduous fruit trees need ..which is to be open in structure).

Orange trees are very hungry for N...Chook manure is THE best fertiliser for citrus. Increasing vigor will help reduce suceptability to ailments generally.
AND only ever water at the dripline-line area of the tree...not a the trunk.

Really need that picture...

Quintrex · 15th January 2008, 11:20 PM

I'm not an authority on this subject, but should he/she thin out the fruit at an early stage to produce bigger fruit?

azrael · 16th January 2008, 03:02 AM

Ive found they abort naturally what they cannot carry...so there no absolute nececessity to thin Citrus for bigger fruit.

The same does not apply to stone fruit...where thinning would be advised, (otherwise all fruit will be disappointingly small).

TOMANGE · 16th January 2008, 02:14 PM

The trees are quite mature and have a lot of fruit on them and stand at about 8 foot high and 10 foot in diameter, they have been around for a good few years. The reason I want to prune them is that they are to big for the garden.
I have looked for a photo of the trees but the one I have got is 2800 MB and I dont know how to reduce its size if thats possible to download it.

Chears

Tom

StrictlyPalms · 17th January 2008, 08:08 PM

Azrael - I must have a very obstinate lemon tree then. The first year after I planted, it produced 6 lemons. The lemons weighed at least 1lb each. The tree was only 2 feet high and I had to support each lemon with a bucket so the tree wasn't laying on its side. Maybe the fact that I supported them kept it from aborting the fruit, but DAMN were they sweet. Made lemonade without needing sugar. Just a little water.

12th January 2008, 09:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
TOMANGE Sappling Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Uk/Portugal Posts: 5	Problem With Orange Trees We have just inherited 2 orange trees a tangerine tree and a plum tree (hardly an orchard) when we bought a property in Portugal mid 2007 and there seems to be a problem with the citrus trees as they look rather unwell. First thing is, at the moment we don?t live there and only get there a few times a year, so for nourishment they just get what god gives them so the leaves look rather wilted and there are some dead branches here and there. Also it looks like they have some sort of infestation on the back of some of the leaves as per the photo, also some of the fruit has become mouldy or is splitting whilst on the tree. Could anyone please give us an indication as to what the problems are and how to correct/treat them as it would be a pity if they died. Thanking you all in anticipation for passing on your wealth of knowledge to us. Tomang

12th January 2008, 10:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
StrictlyPalms Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida USA Posts: 86	Re: Problem With Orange Trees While I'm not an arborist, (yet), I have been growing my own citrus in my back yard here in Orlando, Florida USA, for the past 5 years and I went through similar problems, at least with the splitting. I found a pretty good paper from the University of California, at this address here. http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/8038.pdf Generally attributed to stress and watering inconsistencies, the rinds become rigid and can't expand with the fluctuation of water/sugar flow into the fruit and the rind splits open. Read through the file and it will shed a bit of light on how you can combat this. Although, since you aren't there that often, you may have to hire someone or set up an automatic watering system. Not seeing a Picture attachment. Try to edit and reattach if you can. My citrus: Blood Oranges, Ponderosa Lemons, and Plain Navel Oranges. The lemons grow as big as your 2 fists together some years and no longer split since I've kept the watering consistent. I had a problem with leaf miners a few years ago but haven't seen them since I used some citrus based insecticide recommended by my county horticulturist. here's an example of what the miners do to the leaves. Like I said, I'm not a pro (yet) so if any of the other folks see me saying something incorrect, please let me know. This is just what I've experienced in my own yard. __________________ Strictly Palms, Inc. Orlando, Florida USA

12th January 2008, 05:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,629	Re: Problem With Orange Trees With out a picture its real hard to say but yeah what Tom said have someone water them or automatic watering. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th January 2008, 07:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
StrictlyPalms Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida USA Posts: 86	Re: Problem With Orange Trees Actually, Tomange has a photo on another thread which shows the leaf with some serious mold or fungus on it. And Tom is the guy who took the pic I pulled off the internet. I figured it would be good to give credit where credit is due. edit [I'll Move it over, I forgot we can just cut/paste the img location] StrictlyPalms (Todd Weber) __________________ Strictly Palms, Inc. Orlando, Florida USA Last edited by StrictlyPalms : 12th January 2008 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Helping out

12th January 2008, 07:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,629	Re: Problem With Orange Trees t needs some fertilizer.Have your county agent[if you have one]take a soil sample usually free and give a recomendation for a fertilization schedule for the tree.DO NOT OVER FERTILIZE THE TREE!!! __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th January 2008, 07:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,629	Re: Problem With Orange Trees Thanks but if that came right off the tree prior to picture then it need a lto of fertilizing.I can't say what without knowing whats in the soil.I t might be real close to dying or dead already. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th January 2008, 07:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
StrictlyPalms Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida USA Posts: 86	Re: Problem With Orange Trees I agree, serious problems there. But it almost looks like there's 2 leaves stuck together (insects maybe?) I know there are some types of insects that will stitch or stick leaves together to create a cocoon here in the states. I'm not familiar with European pests so I wouldn't hazard a guess. I know most local governments will take samples and diagnose for you though. Soil, leaf, even water if you can find the local office. Here in Florida its usually free. I dealt with my leaf miner problem this way. Good luck with getting that tree cured, there's nothing better than being able to go out in the morning and picking your own fruit for breakfast. __________________ Strictly Palms, Inc. Orlando, Florida USA

15th January 2008, 01:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
TOMANGE Sappling Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Uk/Portugal Posts: 5	Re: Problem With Orange Trees Thanks to you all for your input with our problem. When we last saw the trees it looked like the rainy season is upon us, and it has certainly made a difference to the trees as the leaves are looking quite healthy apart from a few dead twigs and the infection as mentioned before which only affects a few leaves. I dont know anything about soil inspections etc in Portugal I will have to look into it. One more thing, when is the best time to prune orange trees? Regards Tomange

15th January 2008, 01:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,629	Re: Problem With Orange Trees In winter when they're dormant.if you post some pics of the trees someone can show you how to go about pruning it as well. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

15th January 2008, 01:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
StrictlyPalms Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida USA Posts: 86	Re: Problem With Orange Trees - Pruning during the dormant season will enhance structure and distribute fruiting wood. - Pruning after it blooms will thin the amount of fruit. I know my lemon tree has to have about half its blooms pruned back or the entire tree is at risk of falling over once it forms fruit. It's not that large yet that it can support lots of fruit. __________________ Strictly Palms, Inc. Orlando, Florida USA

15th January 2008, 11:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
Quintrex Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 441	Re: Problem With Orange Trees I'm not an authority on this subject, but should he/she thin out the fruit at an early stage to produce bigger fruit? __________________ Heightmaster

16th January 2008, 03:02 AM	#14 (permalink)
azrael Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 335	Re: Problem With Orange Trees Ive found they abort naturally what they cannot carry...so there no absolute nececessity to thin Citrus for bigger fruit. The same does not apply to stone fruit...where thinning would be advised, (otherwise all fruit will be disappointingly small).

16th January 2008, 02:14 PM	#15 (permalink)
TOMANGE Sappling Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Uk/Portugal Posts: 5	Re: Problem With Orange Trees The trees are quite mature and have a lot of fruit on them and stand at about 8 foot high and 10 foot in diameter, they have been around for a good few years. The reason I want to prune them is that they are to big for the garden. I have looked for a photo of the trees but the one I have got is 2800 MB and I dont know how to reduce its size if thats possible to download it. Chears Tom

17th January 2008, 08:08 PM	#16 (permalink)
StrictlyPalms Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida USA Posts: 86	Re: Problem With Orange Trees Azrael - I must have a very obstinate lemon tree then. The first year after I planted, it produced 6 lemons. The lemons weighed at least 1lb each. The tree was only 2 feet high and I had to support each lemon with a bucket so the tree wasn't laying on its side. Maybe the fact that I supported them kept it from aborting the fruit, but DAMN were they sweet. Made lemonade without needing sugar. Just a little water. __________________ Strictly Palms, Inc. Orlando, Florida USA

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