Please Help!! Silver Maple

TreeSpecialist · 21st April 2008, 09:25 AM

In reading through this thread, it looks as though everyone missed another point of consideration.

Besides the tree having the potential to significantly over grow its space (if it regains its health) , it appears to have several "v-shaped" co-dominant stem forks (stevezmon6- .jpg) near the ground which would - if it survives to any age- be a potential for failure of a large stem or trunk without cables.

As trees that do not compartmentalize decay well, removal rather than cabling (or treating) would be my advice - especially if roots have been cut.

Perhaps its time to think about a better tree suited for the tight location rather than spend more money on this one.

Treelore · 21st April 2008, 09:32 AM

Ts it was considered...lol didn't know how many ways this guy needed to hear he had a mess. I have a couple of others that haven't been pointed out yet either but it just gets depressing

. on that note ever noticed how there aren't enough smileys to say what you want their is a difference between lol and lmao and there only seems to be lmao and it always gives the impression it is at your expense.

TreeDimensional · 21st April 2008, 10:04 AM

Oh TS, I thought of that also, I was just waiting for the cut-er-down crew to show up and state their case. I have discovered something very interesting in the recent past. In the southern hemisphere, there ARE tree that are co-dominant, and have U shaped crotches. I have been looking for trees in 2b hardiness zone that exhibit this trait, and I have NEVER seen one. I will even go one step further, co-dominant trees are more likely to stay up-right where there isn't snow, ice and freezing, going on in the crotches.

I have made up my mind as to what I would do IF it was my tree. In my opinion, the tree is in this state due to root loss and chemical damage. A caveat to this statement is that WE are not hands on, and MAY change our minds IF we were on-site. Cabling this tree is an option, but the most important thing we can do for a tree is to give it the resourses (Space) that it needs, this tree is restricted in soil space. Even IF the crown comes back, the potential for growth or even maintaining the crown is doubtful, IMO. I would remove and replace it.

It is sad that stevezmom has listened to two separate trades people, and ended up with a tree in that condition. This is one of those cases that the client (stevezmom) will probably NEVER trust a landscaper OR an arborist again.

Ekka · 21st April 2008, 02:39 PM

Picked up elsewhere there's a suggestion that this type of damage is sunscald.

It is the sunny side and top of branch.

I have seen this here generally only when a large portion of tree gets opened up to full summer sun it hasn't seen before. I have seen for example large mature mango trees get topped or side lopped and then it happens.

In fact it happen to the ficus at Cathedral Square in Brisbane when the council hacked that.

However, I have seen the same on all the tops of all southern branches on a euc grandis which doesn't make sense ... must have been something else other than sunscald.

How long has the tops of those branches been like that?

TreeDimensional · 21st April 2008, 02:46 PM

I have seen that type of thing happen on OLD ash and sometimes elm trees. The bark is sloughing off, usually as a result of stress, but it is usually seen around the circumferance of the stem.

stevezmom · 21st April 2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

However, I have seen the same on all the tops of all southern branches on a euc grandis which doesn't make sense ... must have been something else other than sunscald.

How long has the tops of those branches been like that?

I just noticed that for the first time when I was up on the roof taking pictures. I have noticed today another place where its happening. Also I have noticed a few clusters of perfect leaves (not deformed) in several spots of the sickly limbs

Not sure how much hope to hold out but I'm ordering a deep root fertilizer tool and going to cross my fingers. I have concluded that it sounds like I shouldn't quite give up on it yet but probably not worth dumping a ton of money into it either. I'm just going to try a little a TLC and let the tree decide what it wants to do.

Again thanks so much for all the input. I have learned alot so all is not lost.

stevezmom · 21st April 2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeDimensional

It is sad that stevezmom has listened to two separate trades people, and ended up with a tree in that condition. This is one of those cases that the client (stevezmom) will probably NEVER trust a landscaper OR an arborist again.

Let me tell you, I have lived in this town for 5 years and have never seen such poor quality service. I called about 9 arborists to come out for the trim. Two called back. I called at least 10 landscapers, 3 called back 2 showed up for bid. The roofer left the job unfinished. it goes on and on allllll the way down to the Direct TV installation. Just for fun I will show you some pics...I need a good laugh today anyways

Notice how he just layed the cable on the roof? All the way to the back of the house!

stevezmom · 21st April 2008, 07:25 PM

Sorry I forgot to ask one more thing. Those Redwoods in my back yard...I went down to Home Depot Yesterday (I wouldn't be suprised if thats where he got them) to look for that tree. They had "Aptos Blue Redwoods" that looked exactly like mine. I asked the landscaper when he put them in and said they were Redwoods if they were going to get huge. He said "oh no, just keep them trimmed". I looked up that species and found that they grow very fast and get enormous. He put four of them in my small backyard. If these are not "controllable" I will have no yard. What do you guys think?

TreeDimensional · 21st April 2008, 07:40 PM

Stevezmom, I agree with your decision to try to save the maple. Just be sure to keep an eye on it so you don't end up with it in your roof and ceiling. It appears that using contractors in your area could be detrimental to your pocket book AND your property.

Sorry, I am a prairie dog, we don't have redwoods here. There are a few members on the site that live in the PNW, I am certain one will along soon.

TreeSpecialist · 22nd April 2008, 04:13 AM

As Ekka likely nailed it, the damage on top of the limbs appears to be sun scald. If it were here in Texas, I would also think about animal damage as a possibility (we have tree rats some folks call squirrels.)

Be careful of the "deep root fertilizing" devices. If it's the one I'm thinking of, the tablets that go into the things are a very salty form of man made fertilizer.

The devices are best used for aeration and or deep soaking. A piece of re-bar to make holes in the ground followed by some compost would have the same (or likely) better results.

With the kind of "service" they seem to be getting, cabling would likely be a disaster. Done poorly, cabling is more than worthless.

Ekka · 22nd April 2008, 04:13 AM

I gotta go to America, out here I get shit on and am nowhere near as useless as those bastids over there! Yet they make a motza.

Stevo, that cabling for the dish is the biggest wank since Armstrong walked the moon, I'd BBQ those wankers azzes and I wouldn't have paid.

The Landscaper is an idiot, PEDIGREE!

stevezmom · 4th May 2008, 07:48 PM

I want to thank you all for your help. For those intersted I am posting an update. I am hoping it is on the right track. It certainly looks alot better. Like I said before I decided to try a little TLC and not dont a bunch more money into it. So basically all I have done is hammered a bunch of small holes around the drip line and dropped fertilizer in there. I have watered those holes several times a day for the past week.

Here are some pics...

Here you can see that these are the two trunks thats are "sick". One is has lots of new growth the other has a little. And also the "stain" on the base. I know someone asked if it had that, now that the bark has come off I can see it

I know alot of people think the tree is tosat but Im not ready to give up yet!!

Ekka · 4th May 2008, 09:21 PM

Good move, keep an eye out for dying tips and more shedding bark.

Look for decay and fruiting bodies where the soil meets the trunk ... make sure that the grade wasn't changed there and the trunk has not been filled upwards with soil.

What sort of fertilizer did you use?

treevet · 5th May 2008, 05:10 AM

You are likely sending fertilizer down to unattached roots as roots were severed with a chainsaw thru the only available perimeter. This tree is living off stored carbs IMO, in the side showing stress. The tree is doing the work that matters, not you. Silv maple is a very prolific grower tho, and not only in the canopy. Stranger things have happened than it regenerating enough roots to do the job.

treeseer · 5th May 2008, 07:17 AM

Trunk flare can be seen, mostly, which is good. See Mulching in the link below--mulch OFF the trunk.

stevezmom · 5th May 2008, 07:39 AM

So as I understand I should push back the bark (it is new) from the trunk. How far back should I go? Are we talking inches or feet? I used Bayer Tree and Shrub fertilizer. There are still alot of dead looking branches but a few weeks ago they all looked dead. On that half of the tree there was not a sinlgle healthy full size/shaped leaf, now there are lots. There does seem to be shedding bark but even on the "healthy" side. They are mostly small pieces here and there but I figured that was normal? Thanks again guys for all your input, I posted on several forums and you guys gave me the best/most feedback

Ekka · 5th May 2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevezmom

So as I understand I should push back the bark (it is new) from the trunk. How far back should I go? Are we talking inches or feet?

6" is enough.

Also keep your eyes peeled for insect/pest infestations. All the tree needs now is a dose of sap suckers!

21st April 2008, 09:25 AM	#26 (permalink)
TreeSpecialist Cruisin' Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 97	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple In reading through this thread, it looks as though everyone missed another point of consideration. Besides the tree having the potential to significantly over grow its space (if it regains its health) , it appears to have several "v-shaped" co-dominant stem forks (stevezmon6- .jpg) near the ground which would - if it survives to any age- be a potential for failure of a large stem or trunk without cables. As trees that do not compartmentalize decay well, removal rather than cabling (or treating) would be my advice - especially if roots have been cut. Perhaps its time to think about a better tree suited for the tight location rather than spend more money on this one.

21st April 2008, 09:32 AM	#27 (permalink)
Treelore Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 117	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple Ts it was considered...lol didn't know how many ways this guy needed to hear he had a mess. I have a couple of others that haven't been pointed out yet either but it just gets depressing . on that note ever noticed how there aren't enough smileys to say what you want their is a difference between lol and lmao and there only seems to be lmao and it always gives the impression it is at your expense.

21st April 2008, 10:04 AM	#28 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple Oh TS, I thought of that also, I was just waiting for the cut-er-down crew to show up and state their case. I have discovered something very interesting in the recent past. In the southern hemisphere, there ARE tree that are co-dominant, and have U shaped crotches. I have been looking for trees in 2b hardiness zone that exhibit this trait, and I have NEVER seen one. I will even go one step further, co-dominant trees are more likely to stay up-right where there isn't snow, ice and freezing, going on in the crotches. I have made up my mind as to what I would do IF it was my tree. In my opinion, the tree is in this state due to root loss and chemical damage. A caveat to this statement is that WE are not hands on, and MAY change our minds IF we were on-site. Cabling this tree is an option, but the most important thing we can do for a tree is to give it the resourses (Space) that it needs, this tree is restricted in soil space. Even IF the crown comes back, the potential for growth or even maintaining the crown is doubtful, IMO. I would remove and replace it. It is sad that stevezmom has listened to two separate trades people, and ended up with a tree in that condition. This is one of those cases that the client (stevezmom) will probably NEVER trust a landscaper OR an arborist again.

21st April 2008, 02:39 PM	#29 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple Picked up elsewhere there's a suggestion that this type of damage is sunscald. It is the sunny side and top of branch. I have seen this here generally only when a large portion of tree gets opened up to full summer sun it hasn't seen before. I have seen for example large mature mango trees get topped or side lopped and then it happens. In fact it happen to the ficus at Cathedral Square in Brisbane when the council hacked that. However, I have seen the same on all the tops of all southern branches on a euc grandis which doesn't make sense ... must have been something else other than sunscald. How long has the tops of those branches been like that? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

21st April 2008, 02:46 PM	#30 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple I have seen that type of thing happen on OLD ash and sometimes elm trees. The bark is sloughing off, usually as a result of stress, but it is usually seen around the circumferance of the stem. Last edited by TreeDimensional : 21st April 2008 at 02:47 PM. Reason: sp

21st April 2008, 07:25 PM	#33 (permalink)
stevezmom Gettin' motoring Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 13	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple Sorry I forgot to ask one more thing. Those Redwoods in my back yard...I went down to Home Depot Yesterday (I wouldn't be suprised if thats where he got them) to look for that tree. They had "Aptos Blue Redwoods" that looked exactly like mine. I asked the landscaper when he put them in and said they were Redwoods if they were going to get huge. He said "oh no, just keep them trimmed". I looked up that species and found that they grow very fast and get enormous. He put four of them in my small backyard. If these are not "controllable" I will have no yard. What do you guys think?

21st April 2008, 07:40 PM	#34 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple Stevezmom, I agree with your decision to try to save the maple. Just be sure to keep an eye on it so you don't end up with it in your roof and ceiling. It appears that using contractors in your area could be detrimental to your pocket book AND your property. Sorry, I am a prairie dog, we don't have redwoods here. There are a few members on the site that live in the PNW, I am certain one will along soon.

22nd April 2008, 04:13 AM	#35 (permalink)
TreeSpecialist Cruisin' Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 97	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple As Ekka likely nailed it, the damage on top of the limbs appears to be sun scald. If it were here in Texas, I would also think about animal damage as a possibility (we have tree rats some folks call squirrels.) Be careful of the "deep root fertilizing" devices. If it's the one I'm thinking of, the tablets that go into the things are a very salty form of man made fertilizer. The devices are best used for aeration and or deep soaking. A piece of re-bar to make holes in the ground followed by some compost would have the same (or likely) better results. With the kind of "service" they seem to be getting, cabling would likely be a disaster. Done poorly, cabling is more than worthless.

22nd April 2008, 04:13 AM	#36 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple I gotta go to America, out here I get shit on and am nowhere near as useless as those bastids over there! Yet they make a motza. Stevo, that cabling for the dish is the biggest wank since Armstrong walked the moon, I'd BBQ those wankers azzes and I wouldn't have paid. The Landscaper is an idiot, PEDIGREE! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

4th May 2008, 07:48 PM	#37 (permalink)
stevezmom Gettin' motoring Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 13	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple... UPDATE!! I want to thank you all for your help. For those intersted I am posting an update. I am hoping it is on the right track. It certainly looks alot better. Like I said before I decided to try a little TLC and not dont a bunch more money into it. So basically all I have done is hammered a bunch of small holes around the drip line and dropped fertilizer in there. I have watered those holes several times a day for the past week. Here are some pics... Here you can see that these are the two trunks thats are "sick". One is has lots of new growth the other has a little. And also the "stain" on the base. I know someone asked if it had that, now that the bark has come off I can see it I know alot of people think the tree is tosat but Im not ready to give up yet!!

4th May 2008, 09:21 PM	#38 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple Good move, keep an eye out for dying tips and more shedding bark. Look for decay and fruiting bodies where the soil meets the trunk ... make sure that the grade wasn't changed there and the trunk has not been filled upwards with soil. What sort of fertilizer did you use? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

5th May 2008, 05:10 AM	#39 (permalink)
treevet Astronaut Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 598	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple You are likely sending fertilizer down to unattached roots as roots were severed with a chainsaw thru the only available perimeter. This tree is living off stored carbs IMO, in the side showing stress. The tree is doing the work that matters, not you. Silv maple is a very prolific grower tho, and not only in the canopy. Stranger things have happened than it regenerating enough roots to do the job.

5th May 2008, 07:17 AM	#40 (permalink)
treeseer Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 410	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple Trunk flare can be seen, mostly, which is good. See Mulching in the link below--mulch OFF the trunk. __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care

5th May 2008, 07:39 AM	#41 (permalink)
stevezmom Gettin' motoring Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 13	Re: Please Help!! Silver Maple So as I understand I should push back the bark (it is new) from the trunk. How far back should I go? Are we talking inches or feet? I used Bayer Tree and Shrub fertilizer. There are still alot of dead looking branches but a few weeks ago they all looked dead. On that half of the tree there was not a sinlgle healthy full size/shaped leaf, now there are lots. There does seem to be shedding bark but even on the "healthy" side. They are mostly small pieces here and there but I figured that was normal? Thanks again guys for all your input, I posted on several forums and you guys gave me the best/most feedback