Pleached Limes Problem

jamiepwood · 19th July 2007, 09:08 AM

Hi, I have four pleached limes planted in the early Autumn 2006. All four have come into leaf. Three have very dark green leaves but one has very light green leaves some of which have started to go yellow and fall off. The tree looks healthy otherwise. But I'm concerned if I dont take corrective action I might lose it. Any help gratefully appreciated.

Sean Freeman · 19th July 2007, 02:10 PM

Jamie, we will need more info from you in order to provide you with a useful diagnosis....what region are you living in what conditions are the trees growing in (in gound/pots/raised beds etc) what recent changes can you identify if any (rainfall/temp/strong winds/irrigation)

Generally foliage changes and leaf drop in citrus are indicative of deficiencies in the soil of required elements..exactly which elements can be determined by the exact pattern of the discolouration. The symptoms you describe are also common to a wide range of enviromental factors not necessarily related to soil composition, so as I said more info please...also a pic or two if you can would be most helpful.

TrevMcRev · 20th July 2007, 01:09 AM

Hey ekka, maybe an instructional sticky in this section telling people to post where they are located, site info/history etc and add pics if possible when asking for help. Save (Boa!) going through the same process everytime!

jamiepwood · 20th July 2007, 09:02 AM

Hi, sorry for the lack of detail. I hope this helps.

Region: South East, England. The soil is stony and slightly chalky.

Growing conditions: all four limes are growing in level ground although the problem tree is located next to a pond which is surrounded by a bog garden. This specific tree is growing at the side of the pond/bog area and its roots will be pushing down below the pond liner.

Recent changes: the only noticeable recent climatic change has been amount of rainfall in the South East of England. It has rained pretty much constantly in large amounts for the last 6 weeks.

I have attached the following pics:

Image 0008 - the problem lime
Image 0009 - the gradual yellowing of the leaves on the problem lime
Image 0007 - one of the (so far) healthy limes for comparison

Thanks again !

Sean Freeman · 20th July 2007, 02:48 PM

Thanks Jamie, yes its a big help...I had to laugh when you posted the photos which are very good BTW, I had thought we were talking about Citrus!!!

Ok, linden trees, Tilia europaea although I think yours are a hybrid of some kind, lovely trees and generally very resiliant, they should thrive in the soils you have in the Southeast.

First of all the yellowing is not indicative of insufficient elements in the soil, had the yellowing been interveinal then the recommendation would have been to take soil samples and get the soil tested....since it is the veins in the leaves that are yellowing first I would have to suspect that it is a problem relating to root conditions.

Tilia will grow quite happily in wet soils so long as they are free draining, it could be that the conditions under the pond liner or near it are a problem. If you can dig a small hole near (Obviously not in!) the edge of the lineer where you would suspect the roots of the tree are growing and investigate the nature of the soil there....thick plastic liners create a hostile environment to root growth almost no gaseous exchange possible and the build up of anaerobic bacteria and their byproducts. However since the tree is not surrounded by the bog gardebn and the liner it is surprising that it is so strongly affected, unless the boggy conditions do extend right around the root plate esp after the recent heavy rains....make sure the tree has not been planted too deep, or buried after planting through grade changes.

The tree doesn't look like it is failing as yet but I agree the premature loss of its leaves in this way needs to be addressed...if it is the boggy conditions then you'll have to decide if this part of the garden can be better drained without destroying what you clearly want ie a bog garden, or whether it is possible/desireable to move the tree out of the permenantly wet area to one that is better drained.

But first things first carefully dig down and look at the soil profile is there water in the hole you dug? is it clearly wet? does it smell like a bog?

jamiepwood · 23rd July 2007, 01:41 AM

Thanks. So I checked the soil around the tree and was pretty amazed to find that the soil wasnt clammy. The soil in the bog garden is obviously very clammy and holds together in great big lumps whilst the soil around the tree is actually very friable: damp but not wet through. And this was after 3 inches of rain in the prior 24 hours. What i also noticed was that the gap between the edge of the pond and the path was quite small and that the root ball may well have been squeezed into the gap. i put some water into the small hole i dug and it drained very quickly. i'mnow wondering if perhaps the rootball is sitting in a u -shaped hole with an air pocket below it and the rain water is just draining away very quickly ??

Ekka · 23rd July 2007, 04:30 AM

Get a long thin rod and poke around and see if it's what you think it is.

Is it possible that the root ball is compacted and nowhere for roots to grow like a pot plant that never gets potted up? Or perhaps the roots are in a tight ball and become water repellent (hydrophobic)

Add a little wetting agent, see if there's improvement.

The leaves dont look like they're dry/crisp though, no dogs doing there thing on it is there?

You haven't fertilized or maybe something washed down there?

19th July 2007, 09:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
jamiepwood I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3	Pleached Limes Problem Hi, I have four pleached limes planted in the early Autumn 2006. All four have come into leaf. Three have very dark green leaves but one has very light green leaves some of which have started to go yellow and fall off. The tree looks healthy otherwise. But I'm concerned if I dont take corrective action I might lose it. Any help gratefully appreciated.

19th July 2007, 02:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,669	Jamie, we will need more info from you in order to provide you with a useful diagnosis....what region are you living in what conditions are the trees growing in (in gound/pots/raised beds etc) what recent changes can you identify if any (rainfall/temp/strong winds/irrigation) Generally foliage changes and leaf drop in citrus are indicative of deficiencies in the soil of required elements..exactly which elements can be determined by the exact pattern of the discolouration. The symptoms you describe are also common to a wide range of enviromental factors not necessarily related to soil composition, so as I said more info please...also a pic or two if you can would be most helpful. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

20th July 2007, 01:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 734	Hey ekka, maybe an instructional sticky in this section telling people to post where they are located, site info/history etc and add pics if possible when asking for help. Save (Boa!) going through the same process everytime! __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

20th July 2007, 02:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,669	Thanks Jamie, yes its a big help...I had to laugh when you posted the photos which are very good BTW, I had thought we were talking about Citrus!!! Ok, linden trees, Tilia europaea although I think yours are a hybrid of some kind, lovely trees and generally very resiliant, they should thrive in the soils you have in the Southeast. First of all the yellowing is not indicative of insufficient elements in the soil, had the yellowing been interveinal then the recommendation would have been to take soil samples and get the soil tested....since it is the veins in the leaves that are yellowing first I would have to suspect that it is a problem relating to root conditions. Tilia will grow quite happily in wet soils so long as they are free draining, it could be that the conditions under the pond liner or near it are a problem. If you can dig a small hole near (Obviously not in!) the edge of the lineer where you would suspect the roots of the tree are growing and investigate the nature of the soil there....thick plastic liners create a hostile environment to root growth almost no gaseous exchange possible and the build up of anaerobic bacteria and their byproducts. However since the tree is not surrounded by the bog gardebn and the liner it is surprising that it is so strongly affected, unless the boggy conditions do extend right around the root plate esp after the recent heavy rains....make sure the tree has not been planted too deep, or buried after planting through grade changes. The tree doesn't look like it is failing as yet but I agree the premature loss of its leaves in this way needs to be addressed...if it is the boggy conditions then you'll have to decide if this part of the garden can be better drained without destroying what you clearly want ie a bog garden, or whether it is possible/desireable to move the tree out of the permenantly wet area to one that is better drained. But first things first carefully dig down and look at the soil profile is there water in the hole you dug? is it clearly wet? does it smell like a bog? __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

23rd July 2007, 04:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,847	Get a long thin rod and poke around and see if it's what you think it is. Is it possible that the root ball is compacted and nowhere for roots to grow like a pot plant that never gets potted up? Or perhaps the roots are in a tight ball and become water repellent (hydrophobic) Add a little wetting agent, see if there's improvement. The leaves dont look like they're dry/crisp though, no dogs doing there thing on it is there? You haven't fertilized or maybe something washed down there? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

23rd July 2007, 01:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
jamiepwood I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3	Thanks. So I checked the soil around the tree and was pretty amazed to find that the soil wasnt clammy. The soil in the bog garden is obviously very clammy and holds together in great big lumps whilst the soil around the tree is actually very friable: damp but not wet through. And this was after 3 inches of rain in the prior 24 hours. What i also noticed was that the gap between the edge of the pond and the path was quite small and that the root ball may well have been squeezed into the gap. i put some water into the small hole i dug and it drained very quickly. i'mnow wondering if perhaps the rootball is sitting in a u -shaped hole with an air pocket below it and the rain water is just draining away very quickly ??

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