Peach prune!

clementine · 12th January 2008, 07:45 AM

Ol?, G'day

I could do with some advice on the pruning of my little peach, if it needs doing at all.
It was planted last year as a 3/4 foot whip, all the growth has occured last summer and I was suprised how much it expanded.
Please could you offer advice on the following:
Does it need pruning?
Where should I make the cuts?
When should it be done?
Many Thanks,

Nick.

newguy18 · 12th January 2008, 04:02 PM

I wouldn't prune it just yet as it is still really young.Maybe someone much wiser than me could help you with any pruning it could use a light thinning but I don't know if I'd prune it.

clementine · 12th January 2008, 04:06 PM

Thanks Newguy,

I've had no fruit yet (maybe too young) but wondered if any pruning would promote fruit growth.

azrael · 12th January 2008, 08:09 PM

I doubt this specimen will have enough space...are they 300 x 300 tiles?
Anyway, you DO need to prune it this year. The pruning that is done now will give the overall formative shape you desire...for the mature tree.
(In-laws used to have a commercial stone-fruit orchard, and worked there for prac. experience early in Hort career....planting, pruning, picking and packing)

I cannot see the graft on your spec, so I hope it is not buried. If it is then ... mmmmm...not good. Lets assume its just not clear in the photos.

Obviously the grey piece is the original planting...and the reddish stuff is this years growth.

First...low branches will be useless, all fruit that is produced on these branches (later) will be on the ground as soon as it's golf -ball size. So IMO they will be unfruitful...get rid of them...thats all the ones around the base.

In fact most new growth is too low, take off ALL the new growth... so that all there is left is the original plant.
Then, keeping the two(?) strong laterals, prune at about 600mm...(about knee height...unless you are a dwarf and then it would be at at waist height).
Then you should stake it straight ... cause it needs it.
There will be NO fruit this year...peaches fruit on previous seasons wood..which will be removed.

You want a strong vigorous tree for the best fruit production...that is what you need to do.

Good luck with the peaches...I was never able to beat the fruit-fly here on the Aust. east coast...and pulled mine out after 4 years. Heaps of fruit...but un-useable.

Also for later on (next year and trherafter), IF you get sporadic late frosts (at bud burst), then fruit wont develop...you may need to protect it at night from frost.

Please speak up anyone who does not agree. This prune will be critical for the overall future shape of this tree.

TreeDimensional · 12th January 2008, 09:13 PM

Azrael, I agree with almost all of your recommendations except the staking part. It is odvious by the new growth that the root structure is strong, staking at this time would probably only cause wounds where the stake holding material touches the bark. The second thing would be to get some mulch on, the purpose for the mulch would be to decrease the evaporation. It has been our experiance here that stone and stone work raise the temperature significantly. Hopefully the mulch will act as an insulator to keep the exposed soil cooler.

If you didn't have to remove so many lower lateral limbs that are useless, now would be the time to establish the branch structure. As Azrael said, there are too many limbs at ground level. Fruit trees that are established can tolerate harsher pruning, But I wouldn't remove any more than 30% of the live crown. There are going to be a lot of pruning wounds near the base of the tree, which might impact the final outcome and survival of the tree. At best, I think you will end up with a codominant tree, not all bad, as long as your aware the it will have to be kept compact so there isn't too much stress at the union of the main stems ( even more critical with large fruit set).

We use kind of a simple rule for pruning fruit trees in our area, remove DEAD, DISEASED, DAMAGED, CROSSING and COMPETING laterals first, and if you haven't pruned more than 30%, prune for height and structure (ie. arrangement of permanent laterals at 12, 4, and 8 o'clock). Don't forget that its occasionally advisable to leave some temporary laterals in place, these can be removed later.

On second thought, go with what Azreal said, I am positive he said it correctly, I am more of a doer that a talker.

Good luck and happy pruning!

Sean Freeman · 12th January 2008, 10:30 PM

I'll be honest and tell you that I've been putting off posting on this one because I'm lazy and didn't want to use paint but anyway...agree with what has been said esp leaving temp laterals..also the future troubles you might have with codominance...so here's a couple of pictures!!!
The subordinating cuts are in yellow, full removal pruning cuts red....why subordinate rather than just snip off the lot? Stem taper for one, and leaving a reasonable amount of foliage on for the next 12 monthns for another.

IMG_0076ps.JPG

IMG_0077ps.JPG

Ekka · 12th January 2008, 11:50 PM

I've been busy paint shopping angled back cuts, I go with Sean's pics.

Long term you most likely wont have branches close than 1' off the ground (as Azrael suggested) but little by little is OK too for removal.

Oh, one other little minute point, when heading back a stem try to cut to an outward pointing bud.

Sure looks a little unusual where it meets the soil and where's the mulch?

clementine · 13th January 2008, 03:29 AM

Many Thanks Azrael. They are 400x400 slabs but it is still a bit close to the house. I assume now is the right time to do this.

Thankyou Treedimensional for confirming Azraels advice.

Many Thanks Sean for making it easy for me, I needed that and I appreciate the effort that you put in.

Thankyou Eric and I will get some mulch.

Does anyone think it is too close to the house?

Sean Freeman · 13th January 2008, 03:34 AM

It doesn't have to be you can train a peach to grow onto a trellis or support structure between the tree and the house...this way any branches growing towards the house would be removed, or redirected to grow along the plane of the support structure. like espalier but slightly off the wall, rather than pressed against it. There's many references on the internet as to how to espalier fruit trees your current location of the peach would work just fine by doing that.

clementine · 13th January 2008, 03:51 AM

Thankyou again Sean

Is now the best time to prune?
What is the best tool for the job?
How long before I can expect some fruit?

Cheers

Ekka · 13th January 2008, 04:01 AM

Prune now!

With Secateurs

clementine · 13th January 2008, 04:11 AM

Thanks Eric

I'll have to pop and buy some of those

D Mc · 13th January 2008, 01:49 PM

Clementine,

We are going to go with Azrael's suggestions.

Yes, prune it this year. We would take away all the lower branches. Peach trees need severe pruning in order to fruit (they fruit on one year old wood) so can tolerate and in fact need strong pruning, approximately 2/3 of new wood.

This will encourage better distribution of fruit and better production.

Like Azrael we are concerned as to whether this tree was planted too deep. If you cannot see the graft, gently work down to see where it is. It must be above the soil (and mulch if added) line. If it is indeed too deep, you should seriously consider digging it up to raise it. Better to do this now than having to deal with a struggling tree all its life. At that time it may or may not need staking, but you might be able to straighten it out in the hole.

We are strong proponents of mulch also. The solid concrete environment it is in is going to be hard on it from raised soil temps to reflected heat off the house.

Good luck,

D and S Mc

azrael · 13th January 2008, 01:55 PM

Dont buy anvil secateurs, get the bypass type. Felco are THE best and, with proper tool care, they will last a life-time.
Ergonomically they are the best to use... However if this is the only hand pruning youll ever do, then you wont develop over-use syndrome and you could get away with a much cheaper pair...but remember...you get what you pay for.

In later years you will need a good Pruning Saw (hand-saw) to do thicker branches.

With regard to the limited space and the final shape of this tree...THIS prune is the one where that formative shape is determined....particularly if its going to be 2 dimensional (flat-fan or espalier). And in this case, you will need to frame or stake any waywards ...but probably only for 1 season...just use soft ties, like cotton or even grafting tape.

and always prune dormant..before buds burst....ie NOW.

and D Mc is right...check that graft...it will all be a waste of time if the graft is buried...you would need to lift it, as suggested.

clementine · 13th January 2008, 03:48 PM

Many thanks to you D Mc and to you again Azrael

I don't understand "anvil" or "bypass" type secateurs??

What is this "graft" that I'm looking for

azrael · 13th January 2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

With Secateurs

There is a pic of by-pass secateurs in this link posted by Ekka....and a bit of an explanation of the types in 'Design'...thats the type to get.

Wiki also has a pic of a graft...and an explanation.
Grafting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The peach trees sold in nurseries are named cultivars which are grafted onto a suitable rootstock, and mostly sold as bare-rooted (or occasionally potted). Just to clarify...this is not a plant you raised yourself from seed is it......???
If that the case then will be NO graft, of course...but beware, seed grown plants will totally unreliable and ...dare i say it...a waste of time and space.

Anyway, in my experience the graft will be fairly obvious... a sort of scarred area low on the trunk (above the crown), sometimes its still wrapped when you purchase a plant ... sometimes not.
Its usually horizonal to the stem, and less often a V notch. It can be for the first few years a point of weakness...(another pro for staking).

The pic (first one) is good but yours appears to be a smaller spec than the pic...but, in principle, it should look something fairly similar.

Hope this helps.

clementine · 14th January 2008, 08:56 AM

Once again a BIG thankyou to everyone for all the advice

I had a look for the graft, the root ball is only 40mm below ground. No sign anyway, so fingers crossed.

Here is a photo of the devastation I caused with my new secateurs:

12th January 2008, 07:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
clementine Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal Posts: 282	Peach prune! Ol?, G'day I could do with some advice on the pruning of my little peach, if it needs doing at all. It was planted last year as a 3/4 foot whip, all the growth has occured last summer and I was suprised how much it expanded. Please could you offer advice on the following: Does it need pruning? Where should I make the cuts? When should it be done? Many Thanks, Nick. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal

12th January 2008, 04:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,610	Re: Peach prune! I wouldn't prune it just yet as it is still really young.Maybe someone much wiser than me could help you with any pruning it could use a light thinning but I don't know if I'd prune it. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th January 2008, 04:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
clementine Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal Posts: 282	Re: Peach prune! Thanks Newguy, I've had no fruit yet (maybe too young) but wondered if any pruning would promote fruit growth. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal

12th January 2008, 08:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
azrael Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 335	Re: Peach prune! I doubt this specimen will have enough space...are they 300 x 300 tiles? Anyway, you DO need to prune it this year. The pruning that is done now will give the overall formative shape you desire...for the mature tree. (In-laws used to have a commercial stone-fruit orchard, and worked there for prac. experience early in Hort career....planting, pruning, picking and packing) I cannot see the graft on your spec, so I hope it is not buried. If it is then ... mmmmm...not good. Lets assume its just not clear in the photos. Obviously the grey piece is the original planting...and the reddish stuff is this years growth. First...low branches will be useless, all fruit that is produced on these branches (later) will be on the ground as soon as it's golf -ball size. So IMO they will be unfruitful...get rid of them...thats all the ones around the base. In fact most new growth is too low, take off ALL the new growth... so that all there is left is the original plant. Then, keeping the two(?) strong laterals, prune at about 600mm...(about knee height...unless you are a dwarf and then it would be at at waist height). Then you should stake it straight ... cause it needs it. There will be NO fruit this year...peaches fruit on previous seasons wood..which will be removed. You want a strong vigorous tree for the best fruit production...that is what you need to do. Good luck with the peaches...I was never able to beat the fruit-fly here on the Aust. east coast...and pulled mine out after 4 years. Heaps of fruit...but un-useable. Also for later on (next year and trherafter), IF you get sporadic late frosts (at bud burst), then fruit wont develop...you may need to protect it at night from frost. Please speak up anyone who does not agree. This prune will be critical for the overall future shape of this tree.

12th January 2008, 09:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 385	Re: Peach prune! Azrael, I agree with almost all of your recommendations except the staking part. It is odvious by the new growth that the root structure is strong, staking at this time would probably only cause wounds where the stake holding material touches the bark. The second thing would be to get some mulch on, the purpose for the mulch would be to decrease the evaporation. It has been our experiance here that stone and stone work raise the temperature significantly. Hopefully the mulch will act as an insulator to keep the exposed soil cooler. If you didn't have to remove so many lower lateral limbs that are useless, now would be the time to establish the branch structure. As Azrael said, there are too many limbs at ground level. Fruit trees that are established can tolerate harsher pruning, But I wouldn't remove any more than 30% of the live crown. There are going to be a lot of pruning wounds near the base of the tree, which might impact the final outcome and survival of the tree. At best, I think you will end up with a codominant tree, not all bad, as long as your aware the it will have to be kept compact so there isn't too much stress at the union of the main stems ( even more critical with large fruit set). We use kind of a simple rule for pruning fruit trees in our area, remove DEAD, DISEASED, DAMAGED, CROSSING and COMPETING laterals first, and if you haven't pruned more than 30%, prune for height and structure (ie. arrangement of permanent laterals at 12, 4, and 8 o'clock). Don't forget that its occasionally advisable to leave some temporary laterals in place, these can be removed later. On second thought, go with what Azreal said, I am positive he said it correctly, I am more of a doer that a talker. Good luck and happy pruning!

12th January 2008, 10:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,643	Re: Peach prune! I'll be honest and tell you that I've been putting off posting on this one because I'm lazy and didn't want to use paint but anyway...agree with what has been said esp leaving temp laterals..also the future troubles you might have with codominance...so here's a couple of pictures!!! The subordinating cuts are in yellow, full removal pruning cuts red....why subordinate rather than just snip off the lot? Stem taper for one, and leaving a reasonable amount of foliage on for the next 12 monthns for another. IMG_0076ps.JPG IMG_0077ps.JPG __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

12th January 2008, 11:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,844	Re: Peach prune! I've been busy paint shopping angled back cuts, I go with Sean's pics. Long term you most likely wont have branches close than 1' off the ground (as Azrael suggested) but little by little is OK too for removal. Oh, one other little minute point, when heading back a stem try to cut to an outward pointing bud. Sure looks a little unusual where it meets the soil and where's the mulch? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

13th January 2008, 03:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
clementine Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal Posts: 282	Re: Peach prune! Many Thanks Azrael. They are 400x400 slabs but it is still a bit close to the house. I assume now is the right time to do this. Thankyou Treedimensional for confirming Azraels advice. Many Thanks Sean for making it easy for me, I needed that and I appreciate the effort that you put in. Thankyou Eric and I will get some mulch. Does anyone think it is too close to the house? __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal

13th January 2008, 03:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,643	Re: Peach prune! It doesn't have to be you can train a peach to grow onto a trellis or support structure between the tree and the house...this way any branches growing towards the house would be removed, or redirected to grow along the plane of the support structure. like espalier but slightly off the wall, rather than pressed against it. There's many references on the internet as to how to espalier fruit trees your current location of the peach would work just fine by doing that. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

13th January 2008, 03:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
clementine Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal Posts: 282	Re: Peach prune! Thankyou again Sean Is now the best time to prune? What is the best tool for the job? How long before I can expect some fruit? Cheers __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal

13th January 2008, 04:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,844	Re: Peach prune! Prune now! With Secateurs __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

13th January 2008, 04:11 AM	#12 (permalink)
clementine Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal Posts: 282	Re: Peach prune! Thanks Eric I'll have to pop and buy some of those __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal

13th January 2008, 01:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
D Mc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 72	Re: Peach prune! Clementine, We are going to go with Azrael's suggestions. Yes, prune it this year. We would take away all the lower branches. Peach trees need severe pruning in order to fruit (they fruit on one year old wood) so can tolerate and in fact need strong pruning, approximately 2/3 of new wood. This will encourage better distribution of fruit and better production. Like Azrael we are concerned as to whether this tree was planted too deep. If you cannot see the graft, gently work down to see where it is. It must be above the soil (and mulch if added) line. If it is indeed too deep, you should seriously consider digging it up to raise it. Better to do this now than having to deal with a struggling tree all its life. At that time it may or may not need staking, but you might be able to straighten it out in the hole. We are strong proponents of mulch also. The solid concrete environment it is in is going to be hard on it from raised soil temps to reflected heat off the house. Good luck, D and S Mc

13th January 2008, 01:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
azrael Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 335	Re: Peach prune! Dont buy anvil secateurs, get the bypass type. Felco are THE best and, with proper tool care, they will last a life-time. Ergonomically they are the best to use... However if this is the only hand pruning youll ever do, then you wont develop over-use syndrome and you could get away with a much cheaper pair...but remember...you get what you pay for. In later years you will need a good Pruning Saw (hand-saw) to do thicker branches. With regard to the limited space and the final shape of this tree...THIS prune is the one where that formative shape is determined....particularly if its going to be 2 dimensional (flat-fan or espalier). And in this case, you will need to frame or stake any waywards ...but probably only for 1 season...just use soft ties, like cotton or even grafting tape. and always prune dormant..before buds burst....ie NOW. and D Mc is right...check that graft...it will all be a waste of time if the graft is buried...you would need to lift it, as suggested.

13th January 2008, 03:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
clementine Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal Posts: 282	Re: Peach prune! Many thanks to you D Mc and to you again Azrael I don't understand "anvil" or "bypass" type secateurs?? What is this "graft" that I'm looking for __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken! Builder in Central Portugal

14th January 2008, 08:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
clementine Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Central Portugal Posts: 282	Re: Peach prune! Once again a BIG thankyou to everyone for all the advice I had a look for the graft, the root ball is only 40mm below ground. No sign anyway, so fingers crossed. Here is a photo of the devastation I caused with my new secateurs: __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste of chicken!