Orchard question

Jester7891 · 7th January 2008, 08:35 PM

Hi, new member living in zone 6a (I believe) on the Delaware River/New Jersey - Pennsylvania border, USA. I recently bought 25 acres of land mostly forest that I have been cleaning (getting rid of brier bushes, vines, dead trees etc) so I can keep the forestry assessment (cuts down on the taxes). There is a piece of property (300 x 300 feet, I believe a little over two acres) that is filled with scrub forest, lots of dead old trees, lots of sticker bushes and vines. The vines killed off most of the trees years ago. I (think that I have) posted a picture that was taken in early December 2007. The land sits right next to a stream (approximately 6 feet across and 1 foot deep) but I also know that water runs across the property when it rains heavily. In fact, there is a dry bed that runs through the middle of the land that becomes a small stream when it rains. I want to tear down the remaining bushes, vines, dead trees etc and put in an orchard.

This is obviously a big task and I am concerned about creating a flood zone below my property (neighbor has a pasture with two horses). I would rather do the work myself over the winter months instead of paying someone else. I have a tractor with the proper implements for tearing out the bushes and putting in the posts etc. There are so many questions that I do not know where to start. I would like to put in apples, peaches, pears, grapes, raspberries and blueberries. I would like to buy different species that will cross pollinate but also that will become ripe at different times during each fruit?s season. I?m wondering if this is a job too big for someone who is never done something like this before. I have already cleared approximately 1 acre of land elsewhere in my property and planted 250 Christmas trees with very good success over the past year. After buying my transplants in western Pennsylvania, I now find myself receiving many fruit catalogs ? a bit overwhelming. Any suggestions in general or good books to help get me started. Is this job too big for me? Please someone tell me how to upload if no pix appears with this question.

Thanks.

mdvaden · 7th January 2008, 08:58 PM

I was looking at that region on Google Earth for fun, and noticed you could be anywhere along what looks like a couple of hundred miles. I didn't realize the Delaware was along the border for such a long ways. Reminds me of how the Columbia splits Oregon and Washington.

If you do your project in winter - like if I was doing it - my main concern would be cuasing a slope of loose dirt and mud that would wash downhill, and compacting the soil.

Sometimes people will line the downhill side with a row of hay bails, sometimes split to make then stretch further, to catch some sediment.

Think it woud become mucky?

If so, spring might be better when soil is less wet, even if you have to delay the entire completion by a couple of seasons.

Can't say for certain, but if its rainy in winter like it is here, that's what comes to mind.

azrael · 8th January 2008, 04:33 PM

A recent land purchase...give youself a little time to learn your land and how it behaves. As you remove trees, try planting green manure crops (usually legumes) to replenish the top-soil nutrient, and condition the soil. Topsoil is your most valuable asset...protect it at all costs....and you must not let it wash away or blow away by having it bare. Well conditioned soil should allow better infiltration, and less run-off. Depending on the slope, you may even need to contour or bund. Hay-bales (even cheap straw) work but they need to be a double line and half overlapped, and staked (star picket) to not move/dislodge. (I would leave them as whole bales).

Do you have access to Govt Agricultural advisory services....try them...they should also be able to advise on specific cultivars most suited for your region, and even what you can expect in the way of crop protection issues (pests and disease).

Take your time ... and keep asking for ideas/help.

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 05:59 PM

Hmmm, I'm drawing on old knowledge here from farms back in SA.

Drainage is the key, you'd have to have perimiter drains to prevent a washout of both your orchard and your neighbours property.

The trees of the orchard would be planted in rows with furrows, the trees elevated slightly. This was to also help with irrigating.

Look at these images.

orchard rows drainage - Google Image Search

What sort of soil do you have? If clay careful to not compact it and ripping/furrows is best way to decompact for large acreage ... rotary hoeing compacts it.

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 06:36 PM

Its definatly in your ability but it might help to seek a qualified arborist in your area espically for pruning.It would clear the land this season and after its clear give it time to settle a little and decide if you can get adaquate drainage.You mentioned in the rainy season you have a small stream in your land how close to the stream will the trees be?

treevet · 8th January 2008, 07:11 PM

It seems like a very enjoyable project, but to be realistic, you must be prepared (with knowledge and equipment) to deal with insects and disease. That is why most apples are dwarf, so when infested/infected they can be pulled out and another plugged in. I operated a tree company in that vicinity (Hunterdon County NJ ) for 10 years prior to moving out here. A damp environment creates many problems both below and above the ground. As for your Christmas trees, beware of insects and disease also. One of which is pine sawfly larvae. They are the exact color of the needles and there can be a thousand right under your nose and you won't notice them unless you are looking for them. A county agriculture extension service can be invaluable to you as in most places. Hunterdon county has a great one if you are there.

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 07:27 PM

yeah make sure your trees aren't in costant water or they'll get root rot.

7th January 2008, 08:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
mdvaden Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 543	Re: Orchard question I was looking at that region on Google Earth for fun, and noticed you could be anywhere along what looks like a couple of hundred miles. I didn't realize the Delaware was along the border for such a long ways. Reminds me of how the Columbia splits Oregon and Washington. If you do your project in winter - like if I was doing it - my main concern would be cuasing a slope of loose dirt and mud that would wash downhill, and compacting the soil. Sometimes people will line the downhill side with a row of hay bails, sometimes split to make then stretch further, to catch some sediment. Think it woud become mucky? If so, spring might be better when soil is less wet, even if you have to delay the entire completion by a couple of seasons. Can't say for certain, but if its rainy in winter like it is here, that's what comes to mind. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

8th January 2008, 04:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
azrael Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 321	Re: Orchard question A recent land purchase...give youself a little time to learn your land and how it behaves. As you remove trees, try planting green manure crops (usually legumes) to replenish the top-soil nutrient, and condition the soil. Topsoil is your most valuable asset...protect it at all costs....and you must not let it wash away or blow away by having it bare. Well conditioned soil should allow better infiltration, and less run-off. Depending on the slope, you may even need to contour or bund. Hay-bales (even cheap straw) work but they need to be a double line and half overlapped, and staked (star picket) to not move/dislodge. (I would leave them as whole bales). Do you have access to Govt Agricultural advisory services....try them...they should also be able to advise on specific cultivars most suited for your region, and even what you can expect in the way of crop protection issues (pests and disease). Take your time ... and keep asking for ideas/help.

8th January 2008, 05:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Re: Orchard question Hmmm, I'm drawing on old knowledge here from farms back in SA. Drainage is the key, you'd have to have perimiter drains to prevent a washout of both your orchard and your neighbours property. The trees of the orchard would be planted in rows with furrows, the trees elevated slightly. This was to also help with irrigating. Look at these images. orchard rows drainage - Google Image Search What sort of soil do you have? If clay careful to not compact it and ripping/furrows is best way to decompact for large acreage ... rotary hoeing compacts it. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th January 2008, 06:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,683	Re: Orchard question Its definatly in your ability but it might help to seek a qualified arborist in your area espically for pruning.It would clear the land this season and after its clear give it time to settle a little and decide if you can get adaquate drainage.You mentioned in the rainy season you have a small stream in your land how close to the stream will the trees be? __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

8th January 2008, 07:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
treevet Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 979	Re: Orchard question It seems like a very enjoyable project, but to be realistic, you must be prepared (with knowledge and equipment) to deal with insects and disease. That is why most apples are dwarf, so when infested/infected they can be pulled out and another plugged in. I operated a tree company in that vicinity (Hunterdon County NJ ) for 10 years prior to moving out here. A damp environment creates many problems both below and above the ground. As for your Christmas trees, beware of insects and disease also. One of which is pine sawfly larvae. They are the exact color of the needles and there can be a thousand right under your nose and you won't notice them unless you are looking for them. A county agriculture extension service can be invaluable to you as in most places. Hunterdon county has a great one if you are there.

8th January 2008, 07:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,683	Re: Orchard question yeah make sure your trees aren't in costant water or they'll get root rot. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

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