Tree World  


Go Back   Tree World > All About Trees > Ask an Arborist here

Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6th November 2008, 12:56 PM   #1
Sappling
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 6
Default Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Can anyone help me? Our neighbour has 7 very large Golden Cypruss Pines planted just over our fence line. 7 Years ago when we moved here they were approximately 5 metres tall at their highest point with about half a metre protruding over our side of the fence. Today they have grown to 10 metres at the highest point and now protrude about two metres over our side of the fence. Over the years I have had numerous discussions with the neighbour (a business) asking that the trees be maintained properly and not allowed to grow too far into my garden or too high thereby cutting off our (previous) spectacular views. I had no success. Now with a new owner I thought I had a chance of finally getting something done. I explained my problem to the new neighbour who seemed quite receptive to my concerns and said he would do something about it. They then proceeded to obtained an arborists report stating that, a) to prune the trees back to our fence line and to lob a few metres of the top would leave a very ugly looking wall and top as Cypruss pines do not grow back their foliage b) they also say if we do that it will probably kill the trees and may cause them to fall over c) he goes on to say that the tree bases are already unstable and recommends they be pulled down and replaced with something more manageable such as a hedge type species. I am happy for that to happen. However the neighbour has written to me stating that "I" should obtain the council approvals and that "I" should pay the $3,500 to pull down the trees. They will in return plant trees of a hedge type species at their cost, costing approximately $19 each. Am I missing something here of is this guy trying to con the village idiot? What can I do? Hope you can help. Treecrazed
Treecrazed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 01:41 PM   #2
Monument Status
 
treevet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

In our neck of the woods one can cut back trees to the "aerial" border if it does not jeopardize the health of the tree. As far as disrupting views it is usually a local ordnance that defines rights here. Sounds like a fifty fifty deal would be in order . Have you tried this? Share the expense of the removal and the planting totaled.
treevet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 01:46 PM   #3
Sappling
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 6
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Thanks for your input. We were quite frankly expecting a 50/50 proposal but that wasn't forthcoming. My anger stems from the fact that had they maintained the tree when I requested it over the years we would not now be in this situation facing $3,500
Treecrazed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 01:50 PM   #4
Monument Status
 
treevet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treecrazed View Post
Thanks for your input. We were quite frankly expecting a 50/50 proposal but that wasn't forthcoming. My anger stems from the fact that had they maintained the tree when I requested it over the years we would not now be in this situation facing $3,500
That's a big hit! Are you in Greenwich, Conn. or in England? I think small claims courts fall within that $ realm these days?
treevet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 01:57 PM   #5
Sappling
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 6
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Greenwich, Sydney, Australia
Treecrazed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 02:00 PM   #6
Monument Status
 
treevet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treecrazed View Post
Greenwich, Sydney, Australia
Welcome!
treevet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 02:05 PM   #7
Veteran Heritage Status
 
Sean Freeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,981
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

You are in NSW so you have the option of approaching the Land and Environment Court and engaging with the Trees(Disputes Between Neighbours) Act 2006 Tree Dispute Information - Land & Environment Court : Lawlink NSW

Its not a silver bullet but its a lot better than anything we have here in Qld.
Sean Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 03:24 PM   #8
Sappling
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 6
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Thanks Sean, Very helpful indeed!
Treecrazed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 04:09 PM   #9
Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane
 
Eric Frei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,992
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treecrazed View Post
However the neighbour has written to me stating that "I" should obtain the council approvals and that "I" should pay the $3,500 to pull down the trees. They will in return plant trees of a hedge type species at their cost, costing approximately $19 each. Am I missing something here of is this guy trying to con the village idiot? What can I do? Hope you can help. Treecrazed
Yes, he's pulling one on you, yes, he's a typical A/hole, and yes, another typical fenceline tresspass dispute, should be laws governing fence-line plantings. If you searched the forum you'd see how many cases we get.

The trees are protected.

Tree Preservation Order

But the arborist report says they should go, and the arborist report says tree bases are unstable, so hazardous, so under common law he must act in the name of negligence. I wouldn't pay a cent, screw him!

Now in one council here they have a local law called public safety, it means that if a tree owner has a hazardous tree they are OBLIGATED to remove AT THEIR COST. They get a certain amount of time and if it doesn't happen then the council sub it out and bill it to their rates with interest, find out if you have similar.

Failing that you hand him an official letter, advising that the trees have been deemed hazardous, they encroach you land and now obstruct your view and it's his responsibility to cut them down.

If still nothing happens, go see a Lawyer, get a letter drafted advising of hazardous trees and negligence etc. The lawyer will know what to do, you really need a copy of that arborist report for both these letters, if you cannot then get one yourself from an arborist or even the same one he used so the report will be a near duplication (fast and cheap).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Freeman View Post
You are in NSW so you have the option of approaching the Land and Environment Court and engaging with the Trees(Disputes Between Neighbours) Act 2006 Tree Dispute Information - Land & Environment Court : Lawlink NSW

Its not a silver bullet but its a lot better than anything we have here in Qld.
Might have to use this when other methods fail, but having tried the other methods first will give a lot of weight to this guys argument in court and make the tree owner look like the A/HOLE he is.
Eric Frei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 10:07 PM   #10
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SE USA
Posts: 753
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

What is a Golden Cyprus?

Ekka you are calling the new owner the bad name when the old owner caused the problem. Does name-calling help or exacerbate the problem? Is this what you want to portray on your forum to newcomers? Are you a professional or a thug?

" If still nothing happens, go see a Lawyer"

In the US, a lawyer would not be needed. if 30 days went by the citizen could take them to court without one. Hiring a lawyer often leads to a party getting ripped off by someone new.

Sean, can citizens represent themselves in Land & E court?
treeseer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 10:24 PM   #11
Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane
 
Eric Frei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,992
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by treeseer View Post
Ekka you are calling the new owner the bad name when the old owner caused the problem. Does name-calling help or exacerbate the problem? Is this what you want to portray on your forum to newcomers? Are you a professional or a thug?
Hey, get a grip on it mate.

Quote:
However the neighbour has written to me stating that "I" should obtain the council approvals and that "I" should pay the $3,500 to pull down the trees. They will in return plant trees of a hedge type species at their cost, costing approximately $19 each. Am I missing something here of is this guy trying to con the village idiot? What can I do? Hope you can help.
The new owner gets an arborist report that the trees are stuffed then tries it on his neighbour to cough up for it ... are you thick or something?

Makes an strong case for an A/Hole neighbour doesn't it?

Oh, the A/Hole did offer to plant some $19 trees whilst he expects this guy to cough up $3.5k for removals of his hazardous trees.

Sheesh.

I also said get a lawyer to send a letter, it works, and it's fast plus cheap. when people get a lawyers letter they tend to take a lot of notice and know you have sought advice.
Eric Frei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 11:34 PM   #12
Veteran Heritage Status
 
Sean Freeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,981
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Sean, can citizens represent themselves in Land & E court?
My understanding is that they can, and having read through many of the judgements and proceedings of the L & E court in NSW I think it is structured in such a way to enable self representation work more effectively than might be the case in other courts.

The way the NSW Act operates is amply explained by any of the freely available records.
Sean Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2008, 11:42 PM   #13
Semi-mature vigorous tree
 
pcarborist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PC
Posts: 176
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by treeseer View Post
What is a Golden Cyprus?

Treecrazed are the trees "Swane's Golden" Italian cypress (Cupressus sempervirens?

Or perhaps "Donald gold", "Golden cone", "Goldcrest" Monterey cypress (C macrocarpa?
__________________
parkcityarborist
pcarborist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2008, 09:06 AM   #14
Sappling
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 6
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

The trees are Cupressus Macrocarpa "Brunniana" (Brunning's Golden Cypress).
Treecrazed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2008, 09:43 AM   #15
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SE USA
Posts: 753
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

"Cupressus macrocarpa (Monterey Cypress) - evergreen Californian conifer to 30m (can be kept clipped to a hedge up to 5m tall); feathery foliage often lemon scented; high oil content so highly inflammable; cannot be cut back to old wood; wind, drought, frost & salt spray tolerant; best in full sun; 'Brunniana Aurea' (Brunning's Golden Cypress) is an excellent cultivar."

cannot be cut back to old wood, bummer, sounds like the old owner neglected a fine hedge and turned it into a liability, of which the new owner was unaware. Can't blame em for trying to get cost split; give em time to swallow the expense before making them the devil and cursing them like a middle schooler.

A reminder, that landowners can simply prune overhanging vegetation. If done in a timely fashion, this is often less work than forcing action on the neighbor.

Good hedges make good neighbors; planting them is not always "commandeering". Both benefit from the privacy etc..

"having read through many of the judgements and proceedings of the L & E court in NSW I think it is structured in such a way to enable self representation work more effectively than might be the case in other courts."

Thank you Sean. Over here lawyers typically get a 1/3 bite; hard to afford.
treeseer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2008, 02:17 PM   #16
Sappling
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 6
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

We've been deliberating on this and will take the following course of action:
1. We will write to the new owner and tell him his recommendation is unacceptable.
2. We will offer to contribute 50% of the cost but not at $3,500. We have to live here for years to come.
3. If he agrees we will obtain 3 seperate quotes and choose the cheapest. N.B. We had a quote in February this year to prune and lop two metres of the top at A$1,045. How that now conveniently transcribes into $2,000 has me confused.
4. Failing this aproach working we will immediately go through the Land & Environment Court, where we are confident we will win.
Thanks for your help everyone. I will keep you posted on the outcome.
Treecrazed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2008, 02:23 PM   #17
Veteran Heritage Status
 
Sean Freeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland
Posts: 1,981
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

That sounds very sensible and fair, remain very calm friendly but firm and confident, many times when managing potential or actual conflict situations how you manage your own emotions can determine how much of your desired outcomes are achieved...IMO anyhow.
Sean Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 08:59 AM   #18
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SE USA
Posts: 753
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

You guys are really nice, paying half, too good to refuse imo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Freeman View Post
many times when managing potential or actual conflict situations how you manage your own emotions can determine how much of your desired outcomes are achieved
That's how it works over here too; in any form of conflict...

treeseer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 09:05 AM   #19
Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane
 
Eric Frei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,992
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Shame really, I wonder if he'll expect half for his properties other problems, maybe bad plumbing, new roof, guttering etc.
Eric Frei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 09:19 AM   #20
Monument Status
 
treevet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Over here if even the proverbial **** hair of the tree is crossing the property line it is designated a joint ownership tree and a mutual venture is enjoyed. Isn't life fun? I just love standing on the prop. line with the two of them duking it out....(not).
treevet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 09:22 AM   #21
Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane
 
Eric Frei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,992
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

So even if the trunk is well into the tree owners yard but the foliage is over the fence-line then it's a co-owned tree?

What then if the tree owner cuts it down, does he need the neighbours permission because one branch was over the fence?

If so, then your laws are crazy and in need of change.
Eric Frei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 09:28 AM   #22
Monument Status
 
treevet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekka View Post
So even if the trunk is well into the tree owners yard but the foliage is over the fence-line then it's a co-owned tree?

What then if the tree owner cuts it down, does he need the neighbours permission because one branch was over the fence?

If so, then your laws are crazy and in need of change.
No it is based on the trunk at ground location.

If either cuts it down yes they are liable and in Ohio it is for treble (3 times) the awarded amount.

"What then if the tree owner cuts it down" not an accurate statement as they both own it.

This law works just fine and has been substantiated by precedence a million times.
treevet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 09:32 AM   #23
Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane
 
Eric Frei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,992
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Even more reason then not to allow trees to tresspass boundaries then. Lose your rights as a tree owner to do what you want with your own tree.
Eric Frei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 09:38 AM   #24
Monument Status
 
treevet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

That is an integral part of it. Make the right selection of tree or if you want to go big, discuss it with the nbor like is the right thing to do in the first place.
treevet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 11:20 AM   #25
Semi-mature vigorous tree
 
pcarborist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PC
Posts: 176
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by treevet View Post
That is an integral part of it. Make the right selection of tree or if you want to go big, discuss it with the nbor like is the right thing to do in the first place.
That's assuming your neighbor doesn't move.
__________________
parkcityarborist
pcarborist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 01:28 PM   #26
Monument Status
 
treevet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,119
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

You're still armed with "doing the right thing" when new occupant arrives. In his case he can choose to not buy in lieu of potential probs. caused by the situation of the joint ownership. Buyer beware.
treevet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2008, 08:53 PM   #27
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SE USA
Posts: 753
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by treevet View Post
You're still armed with "doing the right thing" when new occupant arrives. In his case he can choose to not buy in lieu of potential probs. caused by the situation of the joint ownership. Buyer beware.
Properties are often encumbered by easements to allow gray infrastructure to function. No reason green infrastructure cannot get the same leeway.

treeseer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2008, 01:54 AM   #28
Semi-mature vigorous tree
 
pcarborist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PC
Posts: 176
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by treeseer View Post
Properties are often encumbered by easements to allow gray infrastructure to function. No reason green infrastructure cannot get the same leeway.

Guy, I agree but trees don't vote.
__________________
parkcityarborist
pcarborist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2008, 02:37 AM   #29
Former Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 307
Default Re: Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treecrazed View Post
We've been deliberating on this and will take the following course of action:
1. We will write to the new owner and tell him his recommendation is unacceptable.
2. We will offer to contribute 50% of the cost but not at $3,500. We have to live here for years to come.
3. If he agrees we will obtain 3 seperate quotes and choose the cheapest. N.B. We had a quote in February this year to prune and lop two metres of the top at A$1,045. How that now conveniently transcribes into $2,000 has me confused.
4. Failing this aproach working we will immediately go through the Land & Environment Court, where we are confident we will win.
Thanks for your help everyone. I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Please do not make price the primary consideration in selecting an arborist for this job. I suggest you ask each tree comapny how they plan to do the job and ask for a referral or photogrpahs of similar work. If you are satisfied that the companies are capable and competent then by all means pick the cheapest price.

I already keep a "trophy" photo album of some of my best work and would be thrilled if a prospective client got to speak to a previous client. When you do good work you WANT people to talk about you.

Best of luck with this touchy issue. I hope all goes well.
OutofMytree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2009, 09:39 AM   #30
Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane
 
Eric Frei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,992
Default Re: Hoisting rig for creek bed

Here's another typical dispute involving neighbours trees.

WiscNews.com : Wisconsin Dells Events
Quote:
A Wisconsin Dells resident has a dispute with the owner of Indian Trail Motel over a tree whose limbs have fallen on her property three times, putting her safety and property at risk.

Sherri Freedom lives at 1024 Michigan Ave. Her property abuts a forest at the back of the Indian Trail Motel property owned by Ed Karas. Wednesday night a tree limb belonging to a tree on Karas’ property fell on Freedom’s back yard, crushing her dog kennel that happened to be empty at the time. No person or pet was hurt, but now there is a disagreement between the two property owners about who should pay for the clean up and who should pay to have the tree removed, either partially or completely.

“I’m lucky enough my dogs weren’t out,” Freedom said. “I have three dogs. So I’m lucky they weren’t in the kennel. They wouldn’t have survived. I’m lucky my daughter wasn’t out here...And I’m lucky that my boyfriend wasn’t over mowing the grass on the lawn mower...”

She said there was no damage to her house, but the dog kennel costs about $400 to replace and a grill that was given to her as a gift may also be damaged by the limb.

Freedom believes Karas should pay for the tree’s removal. She said she wants the tree to be cut down to a stump. Karas told the Dells Events Thursday that he’s willing to pay half the cost of cutting the tree limbs off, but doesn’t want to spend an estimated $2,000 to cut the entire tree down and remove it from her property.

Freedom said she has had a history of misfortune with parts of the tree falling on her property.

She said a limb from the tree fell on Christmas 2007 and it damaged her utility box.

“It happens almost every year, one of the big trunks falls. If I’m lucky enough they’re small enough, and I can drag them out to the front and they get picked up,” she said.

In 2008 another neighbor’s tree fell on her property, but the damage was due to storms and is unrelated to the dispute with Karas, she said.

When the tree limb on Karas’ property fell there was no wind or rain, she said. She said she believes the tree is either sick or is falling apart due to old age and will continue to pose a hazard.

Freedom said her attorney and insurance agent say it is Karas’ responsibility to remove the tree.

Karas said the limb falling is an act of nature that Freedom’s homeowner’s insurance should cover. Even so, he said he is willing to split the cost of removing the tree limbs.

Freedom said she has an estimate from Gregerson Tree Service that the limb that has fallen now can be removed for $250 plus tax and the cost of removing the rest of the limbs on the tree would be $900.

Freedom said she has a $1,000 deductible on her insurance and thinks it’s only fair that Karas pay for the tree removal because it is on his property. She’s not interested in dividing the cost and she’d like Karas to pay for the damaged dog kennel.

Karas said if the issue goes to court in a civil case he thinks he will win.
Attached Thumbnails
Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line-112369.jpg  
Eric Frei is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +11. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Advertising on Treeworld
TreeWorld @ 2012