mountain ash problem

nkaur · 2nd July 2007, 09:06 PM

Hi,

Recently a mountain ash tree in my backyard was growing and putting out leaves and flowers, when all of a sudden the leaves stopped growing. They are currently only a quarter of the usual size. The leaves are turning yellow, and then eventually brown at the edges and curlilng up. Some leaves have little brown spots on them The leaves stay on the tree and don't fall down. There isn't any visible damage to the bark and we don't see any sort of insect that could be causing the damage. It looks very sickly right now. The tree has been there for 7 years and is about 9 feet tall. We water it the same amount we have watered it before. What could be wrong?

Sean Freeman · 2nd July 2007, 09:16 PM

A little more info and some pics nkaur and we'll be able to offer some useful opinions, otherise its just stabbing in the dark mate.

What area are you in, whats the soil like any changes happened around the tree in the last 6/12mths? Whats your weather been like?

TrevMcRev · 3rd July 2007, 04:16 AM

If 7 years = 9 foot tall it's either growing in a bonsai pot or it definately isnt a Victorian Mountain Ash!

Post up a pic if you can.

Ekka · 3rd July 2007, 04:47 AM

Nah

It'll be a different species all together.

USA have a tree they call mountain ash but it's not our euc.

pomme · 3rd July 2007, 02:57 PM

the uk have a mountain ash (sorbus spp) grows to about 20 feet

HollyS · 3rd July 2007, 08:38 PM

There are 3 "mountain ash" and most likely more. Euro. Mount ash, Sorbus aucuparia; Greene Mount Ash, Sorbua scopulina; and Sitka Mount ash, Sorbus sitchensis. Around here ash get what we call "ash die off", limbs just die back. But in the US we have all sorts off weather issues right now. In Calif it is so hot and dry our poor blue oaks are already dropping leaves, they usually hold them until Aug. So, yeah more info, and pictures would be helpfull.

Ekka · 3rd July 2007, 11:29 PM

Hey Holly, now you'll have to get some blue oak pics.

I've never seen a blue oak.

HollyS · 4th July 2007, 10:33 AM

Blue oak also known as: Mountian White oak or Iron oak. Quercus douglasii, very slow growers, drought tolerant, leaves have a blue grey tint to them. Here are a couple of my favorite from my house.

Plus a close up of leaves and bark. The green leaves behind the bark picture are a dogwood.

And now I want pictures of your Victoria Mount. Ash (eucalyptus) I've never heard of it.

nkaur · 4th July 2007, 02:06 PM

Hi,

I live in northern BC, Canada (City of Prince George to be exact). I think the soil is fine because the grass and other plants around it are growing quite well. There is even an apple tree 6 or 7 feet away and it is healthy. No major changes occured. We bought it seven years ago (it was about four feet tall) and planted it in the grass in the backyard. We've fertilized the grass and trees once this year. The weather has been the same as the last few years, sunny with occassional thunder storms. The temperature varies but ranges form 5 to 36 degrees celsius in the summer. We did have a harsher winter than usual. I've uploaded some picutres of the leaves. The leaves go from green to yellow to brown and then they curl up. The last two pictures are of its trunk and the ground and the whole tree itself.

Thanks
Nav Kaur

HollyS · 4th July 2007, 02:21 PM

Looks like fireblight.

here is some more info I got from:http://www.ext.nodak.edu/county/cass...s.htm#mountain

Fireblight on Flowering Crabs & Mountain-ash

What causes a rapid browning of the leaves especially on the tips of branches. The brown leaves will hang on the tree and the stem tips will bend over?

A bacterial disease called fireblight which will also cause the infected twigs, stems and branches tol turn almost black in color.

Which plants are infected by fireblight?

Luckily, the only plants which get fireblight are those related to the apple. This includes pears, flowering crabapples, mountain ash and cotoneaster.

What can be done once the trees are infected?

Once a tree has been infected with fireblight we have only two choices. If the disease is spreading rapidly it may be necessary to prune out the diseased areas. You must cut back 8-12" beyond the furthest advance of the disease. Fireblight is very contagious and is easily spread. If the disease has remained in small twigs and doesn't seem to be progressing, we can just watch the infected areas.

Is there any precautions we should take when pruning?

Yes, we need to dip the pruner or saw in a mixture of 10% bleach and 90% water between each cut to prevent spreading the disease when pruning. After using bleach be sure to wash your pruners or saws with water and oil.

Is there any chemical labeled for spraying trees?

No, the spray for fireblight is only for use on apples and pears.

What can be done to prevent fireblight infection?

Painting pruning wounds will help prevent fireblight from getting in. Over fertilize with nitrogen fertilizer and excessively pruning also increases the chances of fireblight infection.

Will fireblight kill the trees?

Yes, it can kill trees if they are susceptible and we don't prune the disease out as it gets into larger branches.

HollyS · 4th July 2007, 02:23 PM

Also, my guess from the bark is it is a Sorbus Aucuparia, Euro Mount Ash, or Rowan.

pomme · 4th July 2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HollyS

Looks like fireblight.

here is some more info I got from:http://www.ext.nodak.edu/county/cass...s.htm#mountain

Fireblight on Flowering Crabs & Mountain-ash

What causes a rapid browning of the leaves especially on the tips of branches. The brown leaves will hang on the tree and the stem tips will bend over?

A bacterial disease called fireblight which will also cause the infected twigs, stems and branches tol turn almost black in color.

Which plants are infected by fireblight?

Luckily, the only plants which get fireblight are those related to the apple. This includes pears, flowering crabapples, mountain ash and cotoneaster.

What can be done once the trees are infected?

Once a tree has been infected with fireblight we have only two choices. If the disease is spreading rapidly it may be necessary to prune out the diseased areas. You must cut back 8-12" beyond the furthest advance of the disease. Fireblight is very contagious and is easily spread. If the disease has remained in small twigs and doesn't seem to be progressing, we can just watch the infected areas.

Is there any precautions we should take when pruning?

Yes, we need to dip the pruner or saw in a mixture of 10% bleach and 90% water between each cut to prevent spreading the disease when pruning. After using bleach be sure to wash your pruners or saws with water and oil.

Is there any chemical labeled for spraying trees?

No, the spray for fireblight is only for use on apples and pears.

What can be done to prevent fireblight infection?

Painting pruning wounds will help prevent fireblight from getting in. Over fertilize with nitrogen fertilizer and excessively pruning also increases the chances of fireblight infection.

Will fireblight kill the trees?

Yes, it can kill trees if they are susceptible and we don't prune the disease out as it gets into larger branches.

i agree fireblight cut the infected branch look for black/dark brown staining in the cambium

Ekka · 5th July 2007, 12:29 AM

Fireblight, what the heck causes that?

Also, first I've seen of those trees, is that tree growing OK, like is that their form, looks like a bunch of antennas sticking out the top????

Our Aussie mountain ash, have a read of this thread and check out the pics. An eye opener for you guys.

Eucs were tallest trees in the world, big wood Aussie logging, world's tallest trees

Sean Freeman · 5th July 2007, 03:44 AM

Fire blight is caused by the bacterium Erwinia amylovora, as yet there is no general agreement as to why this fairly common bacterium should in certain trees develop into a pathogen capable of killing the tree. It is found on the bark of the trees entering into the internal tissues through lenticles and other natural openings as well as injury sites. Epidemics seem to be triggered by temperature, humidity and linked to tree growth stages. It attacks blossoms, new growth shoots and scaffolds. Its also seems to be Rosaceous plants that are most susceptable.

In commercial apple orchards there are a range of control measures used to manage fire blight, not least the planting of resistant species. The use of both copper and sulfur based sprays is common, also a certified antibiotic streptomycin sulfate is also used though the potential negative impacts of using such products I think out weigh any minor benefits.(Bacterial resistance)

I would agree with most of the points outlined as treatment options but would add that having both the soil and foliage assayed by a lab like the Soil Foodweb Inc could be worth it for a tree of significant value to you. The foilar application of a suitable compost teas together with seaweed extracts and organic silica has been shown in individual cases to be wothwhile.

Just remember that the cycle of pathogens like fire blight are connected to the same processes outlined by Shigo and others, excesive fertilisation of trees in impoverished compacted soils, poor pruning practices, inappropriate species selection for the region they're growing in (excessive humidity/irrigation practices) One of the triggers for fire blight does appear to be sudden moisture increases linked to excess soil nitrogen availability.

If you're interested in the Soil Foodweb visit them here and contact them for futher info re your possible fire blight problem http://www.soilfoodweb.com/03_about_us/approach.html

Ekka · 5th July 2007, 06:14 AM

I honestly dont think I've ever encountered fireblight here.

TREE-SURFER · 5th July 2007, 06:41 AM

http://www.shee-eire.com/Herbs,Trees.../Rowan/rwn.htm
I should have posted this link sooner, but not been on for a while.
Very interesting info.

PS: I named my daughter after this tree.....

2nd July 2007, 09:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
nkaur I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2	mountain ash problem Hi, Recently a mountain ash tree in my backyard was growing and putting out leaves and flowers, when all of a sudden the leaves stopped growing. They are currently only a quarter of the usual size. The leaves are turning yellow, and then eventually brown at the edges and curlilng up. Some leaves have little brown spots on them The leaves stay on the tree and don't fall down. There isn't any visible damage to the bark and we don't see any sort of insect that could be causing the damage. It looks very sickly right now. The tree has been there for 7 years and is about 9 feet tall. We water it the same amount we have watered it before. What could be wrong?

2nd July 2007, 09:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,645	A little more info and some pics nkaur and we'll be able to offer some useful opinions, otherise its just stabbing in the dark mate. What area are you in, whats the soil like any changes happened around the tree in the last 6/12mths? Whats your weather been like? __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

3rd July 2007, 04:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 730	If 7 years = 9 foot tall it's either growing in a bonsai pot or it definately isnt a Victorian Mountain Ash! Post up a pic if you can. __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

3rd July 2007, 04:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Nah It'll be a different species all together. USA have a tree they call mountain ash but it's not our euc. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

3rd July 2007, 08:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
HollyS Sappling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California, don't hold it against me. Posts: 32	There are 3 "mountain ash" and most likely more. Euro. Mount ash, Sorbus aucuparia; Greene Mount Ash, Sorbua scopulina; and Sitka Mount ash, Sorbus sitchensis. Around here ash get what we call "ash die off", limbs just die back. But in the US we have all sorts off weather issues right now. In Calif it is so hot and dry our poor blue oaks are already dropping leaves, they usually hold them until Aug. So, yeah more info, and pictures would be helpfull. __________________

3rd July 2007, 02:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
pomme Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 218	the uk have a mountain ash (sorbus spp) grows to about 20 feet

3rd July 2007, 11:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Hey Holly, now you'll have to get some blue oak pics. I've never seen a blue oak. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

4th July 2007, 02:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
HollyS Sappling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California, don't hold it against me. Posts: 32	Looks like fireblight. here is some more info I got from:http://www.ext.nodak.edu/county/cass...s.htm#mountain Fireblight on Flowering Crabs & Mountain-ash What causes a rapid browning of the leaves especially on the tips of branches. The brown leaves will hang on the tree and the stem tips will bend over? A bacterial disease called fireblight which will also cause the infected twigs, stems and branches tol turn almost black in color. Which plants are infected by fireblight? Luckily, the only plants which get fireblight are those related to the apple. This includes pears, flowering crabapples, mountain ash and cotoneaster. What can be done once the trees are infected? Once a tree has been infected with fireblight we have only two choices. If the disease is spreading rapidly it may be necessary to prune out the diseased areas. You must cut back 8-12" beyond the furthest advance of the disease. Fireblight is very contagious and is easily spread. If the disease has remained in small twigs and doesn't seem to be progressing, we can just watch the infected areas. Is there any precautions we should take when pruning? Yes, we need to dip the pruner or saw in a mixture of 10% bleach and 90% water between each cut to prevent spreading the disease when pruning. After using bleach be sure to wash your pruners or saws with water and oil. Is there any chemical labeled for spraying trees? No, the spray for fireblight is only for use on apples and pears. What can be done to prevent fireblight infection? Painting pruning wounds will help prevent fireblight from getting in. Over fertilize with nitrogen fertilizer and excessively pruning also increases the chances of fireblight infection. Will fireblight kill the trees? Yes, it can kill trees if they are susceptible and we don't prune the disease out as it gets into larger branches. __________________

4th July 2007, 02:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
HollyS Sappling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California, don't hold it against me. Posts: 32	Also, my guess from the bark is it is a Sorbus Aucuparia, Euro Mount Ash, or Rowan. __________________

5th July 2007, 12:29 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Fireblight, what the heck causes that? Also, first I've seen of those trees, is that tree growing OK, like is that their form, looks like a bunch of antennas sticking out the top???? Our Aussie mountain ash, have a read of this thread and check out the pics. An eye opener for you guys. Eucs were tallest trees in the world, big wood Aussie logging, world's tallest trees __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

5th July 2007, 03:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,645	Fire blight is caused by the bacterium Erwinia amylovora, as yet there is no general agreement as to why this fairly common bacterium should in certain trees develop into a pathogen capable of killing the tree. It is found on the bark of the trees entering into the internal tissues through lenticles and other natural openings as well as injury sites. Epidemics seem to be triggered by temperature, humidity and linked to tree growth stages. It attacks blossoms, new growth shoots and scaffolds. Its also seems to be Rosaceous plants that are most susceptable. In commercial apple orchards there are a range of control measures used to manage fire blight, not least the planting of resistant species. The use of both copper and sulfur based sprays is common, also a certified antibiotic streptomycin sulfate is also used though the potential negative impacts of using such products I think out weigh any minor benefits.(Bacterial resistance) I would agree with most of the points outlined as treatment options but would add that having both the soil and foliage assayed by a lab like the Soil Foodweb Inc could be worth it for a tree of significant value to you. The foilar application of a suitable compost teas together with seaweed extracts and organic silica has been shown in individual cases to be wothwhile. Just remember that the cycle of pathogens like fire blight are connected to the same processes outlined by Shigo and others, excesive fertilisation of trees in impoverished compacted soils, poor pruning practices, inappropriate species selection for the region they're growing in (excessive humidity/irrigation practices) One of the triggers for fire blight does appear to be sudden moisture increases linked to excess soil nitrogen availability. If you're interested in the Soil Foodweb visit them here and contact them for futher info re your possible fire blight problem http://www.soilfoodweb.com/03_about_us/approach.html __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

5th July 2007, 06:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	I honestly dont think I've ever encountered fireblight here. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

5th July 2007, 06:41 AM	#16 (permalink)
TREE-SURFER Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK. Posts: 407	http://www.shee-eire.com/Herbs,Trees.../Rowan/rwn.htm I should have posted this link sooner, but not been on for a while. Very interesting info. PS: I named my daughter after this tree..... __________________ The Aerial Arborist Isle of Man Tree Surgeon\| All Aspects of Tree Work Andy@Aerial-Arborist.co.uk What experts say about TOPPING