lightning strike oak tree

Eric Frei · 14th July 2008, 05:28 PM

The difference in the tree growing over and closing the wound depends on tree maturity, vigour and wound size.

Would we all agree that woundwood (callus) growth is proportional to ring growth not branch growth? Good, coz otherwise it's going to be a long day.

So on a mature tree what sort of callus growth do you expect a year? Lucky to get 1/4" a year, that's coz the rate of sealing is proportional to ring growth not say branches where a 3' long branch can grow in a year.

So on large cuts on old trees they wont close, ever. If you have a tree that can grow 4' DBH and you cut a 12" dia piece off when it's 2' DBH you got a chance, a tough chance but there is a chance.

With this big old oak I think we'd all agree that big cuts on the trunk wont ever close.

So it will decay, and as it's a living tree it's not like you can fill it up with copper sulphate or dry it to get below 20% moisture content.

I would suggest similar to a weather cap to prevent rain getting in (and wetting the vulnerable heartwood) but the cap be elevated so that it can dry out.... a weatherproof whirlybird like they do on roofs to help ventilate.

Take your pic, a colour for every tree. Just get the last piece of log section cut and use it as the pattern to make the attachment to fit it. You want the sheet metal to come down the trunk say 1' and screw the bugger on, no water will get in and hey presto, should dry it out real good and reduce the decay (hopefully).

See, who says we're conventional here!

Sean Freeman · 14th July 2008, 08:31 PM

My take on this question is based on direct questions to Schwarze during the Brisbane conference, he would (it seems to me) to be referring to research on the application of antagonistic fungi within moisture retaining gels/pastes not some kind of flexible sealant that will prevent the ingress of oxygen intot he exposed wood tissues (and yes deeper than the surface layer).

Personally I do not read any convincing evidence of the effectiveness of any "sealant" even if one accepts their neutral effect, on the normal internal chemical and physical defence processes of the tree.

If you do then fine by all means advise your clients accordingly, I do not.

I accept that at times very large limbs are removed from older trees (more often by storm events than by us) and agree these will not occlude they will remain exposed at the surface to air, insects, spores etc....Not by any means an ideal situation....for me the only course of action I feel confident in advising clients to take is to dramatically improve the soil environment in which their tree is growing, give the tree the means to produce replacement foliage to generate the energy to meet the multiple demands on its carbohydrate resources (defence being the last in the list of allocations!).

treeseer · 14th July 2008, 11:24 PM

Dave, I assure you that I am not part of a vast tree paint conspiracy. I've always thought the the switch from "thou shalt paint every wound bigger than a quarter" to "thou shalt not paint" lacked scientific support; swapping one dogma for another. Now that heading cuts on mature trees are accepted, I'm saying it a little louder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Would we all agree that woundwood (callus) growth is proportional to ring growth not branch growth?

Uhhh, where has callus (undifferentiated, "stem cell" tissue) growth been observed to be proportional to anything? Woundwood (differentiated, lignified tissue) is formed from callus. One thing is for sure--it will be a long day!

I like the capping idea, but wouldn't the water run down the sides and blow in? I favor a wider, peaked roof.

I agree with Sean, it is dependent on the tree's resources, so it makes sense to increase those with root invigoration. Antagonistic fungi in a gel? How long would they hold sway over the site? If you heard Schwarze say this, and not that crack-preventing sealants are no good, I have to take your impression of the chat as incomplete and perhaps a tad biased anti-sealant, as the whole industry is right now.

Also, it makes sense that he would be a bit leery of a pro-sealant pronouncement, to avoid this kind of backlash. Saying "some stubs are good", and "heading cuts can be good for the tree" unleashed a firestorm of abuse, for a few years, then it died down. And the dogma died with it.

treevet · 14th July 2008, 11:48 PM

It would be nice to think that the tree with "intelligence" or conditioned response or genetics or whatever could generate more growth to increase fracture resistance by directing that growth to the woundwood and not the canopy or mass in favor of the fracture above or outwards from the wound. This is not likely so therefore by improving (canopy,mass) growth one may be adding to the failure potential of the newly exposed large limb/s adjacent to the wound subject to failure. I would not try to improve health of tree as it appeared to be in an ideal setting being a farm, low traffic, no competitors, and a low grade target (the owner stated this is not a residence and I doubt there is a bustling crowd through this area). I would just stand pat outside of removing the dead leader as it is a vector for pathogens and again reduce mass in limbs with fracture potential. The owner stated he would do nothing this year. That big dead limb is not unlike a big stick of candy to decay causing orgs not to mention the high risk of this new less flexible limb.

As for the cap idea that Eric mentioned, I do not think it possible to keep decay causing orgs or moisture from under the cap and it would stay moist under the cap longer than if left uncovered. Also the cap would interfere with woundwood closure/movement. Once a cavity is inevitably formed, a pocket of water would be a negative environment for fungi. I have put many caps on trees in the early 70's with much care and found decay under all of them. I would even come back and trace woundwood to make sure it rolled over the tin. That did work but no matter.

Also I think we established among ourselves that callus and woundwood are different entities. Callus is nearly void of lignen and we need to define our terms.

Sean Freeman · 14th July 2008, 11:59 PM

Guy I don't know that Francis Schwarze is in favour or against any of the topics that have been touched on, just that I asked directly about the research he spoke about in his workshop comprehensive research into the effectiveness of different trichoderma sp in opposition to five wood decay fungi....and the conversation did touch on sealants, he has moved some distance from his work in the late 90's and early 2000's and prefers to focus on the work he is now doing re the use of fungi to change the acoustic qualities of timber for violin making. (I think it would be fair to say he has experienced some significant frustrations along the way!!!)

I think you are right about the care with which someone with Schwarze's profile in the industry has to take when talking about treatments that have very limited accepted scientific research behind them.

I repeat that if in specific circumstances you feel the advice to apply a particular kind of sealant (though I don't know what that would be) to a very large wound is appropriate for a client then I'm not going to shout you down over it...I don't have enough info to judge the specifics, however the info I do have in my part of the world leads me to a different conclusion for the clients I come across.

Next time I get the chance I will ask better, more precise questions of the well informed presenters/researchers that cross my path.

Sean Freeman · 15th July 2008, 12:12 AM

Treevet I hope that my references to improving soil environment did not imply fertilization, thats not what I have ever recommended for any trees outside of commercial silviculture.
I was not being anthropomorphic in my description of the biologically determined priority of resource allocation either rather trying to reflect what is currently our best understanding of that particular biological function.

I agree the reponse in the particular case of the tree at the beginning of this thread may well be profuse epicormic growth at or around the branch unions below the dead sections....but not sure that is an absolute certainty....but very willing to acknowledge that both you and Guy have much more experience with Oaks than I do.

Eric Frei · 15th July 2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

for me the only course of action I feel confident in advising clients to take is to dramatically improve the soil environment in which their tree is growing, give the tree the means to produce replacement foliage to generate the energy to meet the multiple demands on its carbohydrate resources (defence being the last in the list of allocations!).

Yes of course, however none of those benefits will assist the heartwoods resistance to decay, but drier timber does help. If the oaks top is cut off moisture can easily enter, with a cap that prevents water and assists drying then surely that will help. It's just an idea.

Better idea than climbing trees with ice axes.

Eric Frei · 15th July 2008, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

Uhhh, where has callus (undifferentiated, "stem cell" tissue) growth been observed to be proportional to anything? Woundwood (differentiated, lignified tissue) is formed from callus. One thing is for sure--it will be a long day!

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

Also I think we established among ourselves that callus and woundwood are different entities. Callus is nearly void of lignen and we need to define our terms.

When in the first year you see a doughnut ring around a wound, perhaps 1/4" thick what is it?

And when does callus turn to woundwood (differentiate), in what time period?

And the closure of most pruning wounds seems very incremental with ring growth, you certainly dont see a doughnut grow as fast as a branch.

Yes, the long days are coming.

treevet · 15th July 2008, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

Dave, I assure you that I am not part of a vast tree paint conspiracy. I've always thought the the switch from "thou shalt paint every wound bigger than a quarter" to "thou shalt not paint" lacked scientific support

perhaps a tad biased anti-sealant, as the whole industry is right now.

Also, it makes sense that he would be a bit leery of a pro-sealant pronouncement, to avoid this kind of backlash. Saying "some stubs are good", and "heading cuts can be good for the tree" unleashed a firestorm of abuse, for a few years, then it died down. And the dogma died with it.

I certainly do not think you a conspirator, but I do not put it past chem co.s. You should see the misrepresentations here in regards to EAB treatments. I see them sitting in a large room in a "think tank" saying, "hey, we have taken a beating on fuel costs, etc and the economic environment is bleak, where can we go to give a big boost? Shigo's dead, the door is open." Homeowner's can run their car into the tree, make flush cuts, leave stubs, practice ice axe climbing on them and "presto" goop on some of our miracle paint and all is good. Back to the stone ages.

Guy, the reason the entire profession stopped on a dime in regards to wound dressing is the quality of the research done to prove it useless. Shigo was a researcher (chief of the US Forest service) then became a lecturer and not the other way around.

In regards to the roof again. It will have to be attached somehow causing wounds and breaching again the boundaries with deep wounds. Enter more decay. Also, have we determined how much moisture is necessary for various decay causing orgs to thrive? My guess is humidity is sufficient and a downpoor diverted by a "roof" is inconsequential as moisture will be held in by any enclosure long after other "unroofed (rooved?)" surfaces have long dried out.

newguy18 · 15th July 2008, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

The difference in the tree growing over and closing the wound depends on tree maturity, vigour and wound size.

Would we all agree that woundwood (callus) growth is proportional to ring growth not branch growth? Good, coz otherwise it's going to be a long day.

So on a mature tree what sort of callus growth do you expect a year? Lucky to get 1/4" a year, that's coz the rate of sealing is proportional to ring growth not say branches where a 3' long branch can grow in a year.

So on large cuts on old trees they wont close, ever. If you have a tree that can grow 4' DBH and you cut a 12" dia piece off when it's 2' DBH you got a chance, a tough chance but there is a chance.

With this big old oak I think we'd all agree that big cuts on the trunk wont ever close.

So it will decay, and as it's a living tree it's not like you can fill it up with copper sulphate or dry it to get below 20% moisture content.

I would suggest similar to a weather cap to prevent rain getting in (and wetting the vulnerable heartwood) but the cap be elevated so that it can dry out.... a weatherproof whirlybird like they do on roofs to help ventilate.

Take your pic, a colour for every tree. Just get the last piece of log section cut and use it as the pattern to make the attachment to fit it. You want the sheet metal to come down the trunk say 1' and screw the bugger on, no water will get in and hey presto, should dry it out real good and reduce the decay (hopefully).

See, who says we're conventional here!

Okay i'll bite,theres good and bad to it,if it would get wet inside it will vent in the wind.The bad,it still lets water in through the top so it will be damp inside.

treevet · 15th July 2008, 05:09 AM

Let's just say for discussion that a large diameter limb has a cavity in the top of a limb that grows sideways. Let's say it is of a 2 gallon capacity. Instead of putting a roof over it or cap on it to deflect some of the water, let's fill it up with water, right to the top. Instead of the roof let's suspend a drip bag, full of water so that the cavity never is below full.

This would stop decay? This my example of the misdirection of these devices.
Dr. Shigo's example was to say that country/s somewhere in the world (memory fails me) submerge valuable logs in the water to prevent decay. IMO it is not the abundance of water, but rather the dampness and available oxygen that occurs when the standing water in the cavity subsides. This was used to illustrate that caps and drain tubes and the injuries related to them don't win in the cost/benefit analysis.

treevet · 15th July 2008, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

anthropomorphic

Eric, you slammed me for using the word "distal" and you let Sean slide on this one

treeseer · 15th July 2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

Eric, you slammed me for using the word "distal" and you let Sean slide on this one

The knot is the Distel; it is eric who was confused.

Sean, I'm just jealous that you got proximal enough to meet the guy!

"the reason the entire profession stopped on a dime in regards to wound dressing is the quality of the research done to prove it useless."

I think it changed so fast because everyone was sick of the mess it made--I know I was!

Just today I painted a 10" cut on a stem that was reduced for tv reception, but the battery died!

o and an oak that old may not sprout at all, at least not for a few years.

treevet · 15th July 2008, 09:55 AM

Tree paint memories: Send a new climber back up to paint a "white eye" the size of a silver dollar after he already pulled his line out (hazing). The paint brush made to have the handle fit on the blade of a pole saw and when the wind blew you got it on your face and nobody told you. A cross threaded brush screwed into the pot that worked itself loose and drained the entire contents on your leg and boot (and sometimes groundy, but that was OK). Moving around and backing into a cut and black tar in your hair you had to cut out with scissors on the day of a hot date that night. Having a green man paint a huge bark trace job for an hour or more and calling him "Leonardo". Having the gallon overturn in the truck the groundy didn't put the top on right and set it near some gear. Having to wait on a frigid day to get the job done while the damn tar warmed up in the cab so you could pour it to refill the stupid pot.

Now that I fondly reminisce about tree tar, Guy, I can see why you are conspiring to bring it back.

newguy18 · 15th July 2008, 01:07 PM

I know,they're both annoying and out dated right?

[j/k Guy].

treeseer · 15th July 2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

I know,they're both annoying and out dated right?

[j/k Guy].

This guy is hilarious...

Dave you forgot the errant followthrough with the handsaw that pops the spray can so it all fizzles out down your leg..I did that one several times; fond memories...

Eric Frei · 16th July 2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

When in the first year you see a doughnut ring around a wound, perhaps 1/4" thick what is it?

And when does callus turn to woundwood (differentiate), in what time period?

And the closure of most pruning wounds seems very incremental with ring growth, you certainly dont see a doughnut grow as fast as a branch.

Yes, the long days are coming.

Most answers are in this thread, however in this post is evidence that at 13weeks to 16weeks cells differentiated in Tilia ... but notes are made that in some tropical species wood differentiated a lot sooner to almost at time of forming. So what is apparent is that the correct term is woundwood.

longer cuts on poor compartmentalizers| CODIT WALL4

treevet · 16th July 2008, 01:01 AM

True, and I am quite sure I have read that callus formed in late season in areas with dormancy will begin with callus in the spring but I will have a lot of looking to find this.

Eric Frei · 16th July 2008, 01:28 AM

Yes, just like I know that fungi doesn't colonize wood under 20% moisture content.

treevet · 16th July 2008, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Yes, just like I know that fungi doesn't colonize wood under 20% moisture content.

Pretty much true with just about anything we say on here. Like Guy said, "just passing on here say". Maybe we should all chip in for a "Tree World Research Facility" with state of the art equipment.

Eric Frei · 16th July 2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

Pretty much true with just about anything we say on here. Like Guy said, "just passing on here say". Maybe we should all chip in for a "Tree World Research Facility" with state of the art equipment.

Yeah, upgrade the Ryobi for a Resi500

treevet · 16th July 2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Yeah, upgrade the Ryobi for a Resi500

Achtung

treeseer · 16th July 2008, 11:39 AM

Great link to the Tilia callus article, great thread.

14th July 2008, 05:28 PM	#61
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: lightning strike oak tree The difference in the tree growing over and closing the wound depends on tree maturity, vigour and wound size. Would we all agree that woundwood (callus) growth is proportional to ring growth not branch growth? Good, coz otherwise it's going to be a long day. So on a mature tree what sort of callus growth do you expect a year? Lucky to get 1/4" a year, that's coz the rate of sealing is proportional to ring growth not say branches where a 3' long branch can grow in a year. So on large cuts on old trees they wont close, ever. If you have a tree that can grow 4' DBH and you cut a 12" dia piece off when it's 2' DBH you got a chance, a tough chance but there is a chance. With this big old oak I think we'd all agree that big cuts on the trunk wont ever close. So it will decay, and as it's a living tree it's not like you can fill it up with copper sulphate or dry it to get below 20% moisture content. I would suggest similar to a weather cap to prevent rain getting in (and wetting the vulnerable heartwood) but the cap be elevated so that it can dry out.... a weatherproof whirlybird like they do on roofs to help ventilate. Take your pic, a colour for every tree. Just get the last piece of log section cut and use it as the pattern to make the attachment to fit it. You want the sheet metal to come down the trunk say 1' and screw the bugger on, no water will get in and hey presto, should dry it out real good and reduce the decay (hopefully). See, who says we're conventional here! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

14th July 2008, 08:31 PM	#62
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Re: lightning strike oak tree My take on this question is based on direct questions to Schwarze during the Brisbane conference, he would (it seems to me) to be referring to research on the application of antagonistic fungi within moisture retaining gels/pastes not some kind of flexible sealant that will prevent the ingress of oxygen intot he exposed wood tissues (and yes deeper than the surface layer). Personally I do not read any convincing evidence of the effectiveness of any "sealant" even if one accepts their neutral effect, on the normal internal chemical and physical defence processes of the tree. If you do then fine by all means advise your clients accordingly, I do not. I accept that at times very large limbs are removed from older trees (more often by storm events than by us) and agree these will not occlude they will remain exposed at the surface to air, insects, spores etc....Not by any means an ideal situation....for me the only course of action I feel confident in advising clients to take is to dramatically improve the soil environment in which their tree is growing, give the tree the means to produce replacement foliage to generate the energy to meet the multiple demands on its carbohydrate resources (defence being the last in the list of allocations!).

14th July 2008, 11:48 PM	#64
treevet Backflipper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 2,131	Re: lightning strike oak tree It would be nice to think that the tree with "intelligence" or conditioned response or genetics or whatever could generate more growth to increase fracture resistance by directing that growth to the woundwood and not the canopy or mass in favor of the fracture above or outwards from the wound. This is not likely so therefore by improving (canopy,mass) growth one may be adding to the failure potential of the newly exposed large limb/s adjacent to the wound subject to failure. I would not try to improve health of tree as it appeared to be in an ideal setting being a farm, low traffic, no competitors, and a low grade target (the owner stated this is not a residence and I doubt there is a bustling crowd through this area). I would just stand pat outside of removing the dead leader as it is a vector for pathogens and again reduce mass in limbs with fracture potential. The owner stated he would do nothing this year. That big dead limb is not unlike a big stick of candy to decay causing orgs not to mention the high risk of this new less flexible limb. As for the cap idea that Eric mentioned, I do not think it possible to keep decay causing orgs or moisture from under the cap and it would stay moist under the cap longer than if left uncovered. Also the cap would interfere with woundwood closure/movement. Once a cavity is inevitably formed, a pocket of water would be a negative environment for fungi. I have put many caps on trees in the early 70's with much care and found decay under all of them. I would even come back and trace woundwood to make sure it rolled over the tin. That did work but no matter. Also I think we established among ourselves that callus and woundwood are different entities. Callus is nearly void of lignen and we need to define our terms.

14th July 2008, 11:59 PM	#65
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Re: lightning strike oak tree Guy I don't know that Francis Schwarze is in favour or against any of the topics that have been touched on, just that I asked directly about the research he spoke about in his workshop comprehensive research into the effectiveness of different trichoderma sp in opposition to five wood decay fungi....and the conversation did touch on sealants, he has moved some distance from his work in the late 90's and early 2000's and prefers to focus on the work he is now doing re the use of fungi to change the acoustic qualities of timber for violin making. (I think it would be fair to say he has experienced some significant frustrations along the way!!!) I think you are right about the care with which someone with Schwarze's profile in the industry has to take when talking about treatments that have very limited accepted scientific research behind them. I repeat that if in specific circumstances you feel the advice to apply a particular kind of sealant (though I don't know what that would be) to a very large wound is appropriate for a client then I'm not going to shout you down over it...I don't have enough info to judge the specifics, however the info I do have in my part of the world leads me to a different conclusion for the clients I come across. Next time I get the chance I will ask better, more precise questions of the well informed presenters/researchers that cross my path.

15th July 2008, 12:12 AM	#66
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Re: lightning strike oak tree Treevet I hope that my references to improving soil environment did not imply fertilization, thats not what I have ever recommended for any trees outside of commercial silviculture. I was not being anthropomorphic in my description of the biologically determined priority of resource allocation either rather trying to reflect what is currently our best understanding of that particular biological function. I agree the reponse in the particular case of the tree at the beginning of this thread may well be profuse epicormic growth at or around the branch unions below the dead sections....but not sure that is an absolute certainty....but very willing to acknowledge that both you and Guy have much more experience with Oaks than I do.

15th July 2008, 05:09 AM	#71
treevet Backflipper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 2,131	Re: lightning strike oak tree Let's just say for discussion that a large diameter limb has a cavity in the top of a limb that grows sideways. Let's say it is of a 2 gallon capacity. Instead of putting a roof over it or cap on it to deflect some of the water, let's fill it up with water, right to the top. Instead of the roof let's suspend a drip bag, full of water so that the cavity never is below full. This would stop decay? This my example of the misdirection of these devices. Dr. Shigo's example was to say that country/s somewhere in the world (memory fails me) submerge valuable logs in the water to prevent decay. IMO it is not the abundance of water, but rather the dampness and available oxygen that occurs when the standing water in the cavity subsides. This was used to illustrate that caps and drain tubes and the injuries related to them don't win in the cost/benefit analysis.

15th July 2008, 09:55 AM	#74
treevet Backflipper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 2,131	Re: lightning strike oak tree Tree paint memories: Send a new climber back up to paint a "white eye" the size of a silver dollar after he already pulled his line out (hazing). The paint brush made to have the handle fit on the blade of a pole saw and when the wind blew you got it on your face and nobody told you. A cross threaded brush screwed into the pot that worked itself loose and drained the entire contents on your leg and boot (and sometimes groundy, but that was OK). Moving around and backing into a cut and black tar in your hair you had to cut out with scissors on the day of a hot date that night. Having a green man paint a huge bark trace job for an hour or more and calling him "Leonardo". Having the gallon overturn in the truck the groundy didn't put the top on right and set it near some gear. Having to wait on a frigid day to get the job done while the damn tar warmed up in the cab so you could pour it to refill the stupid pot. Now that I fondly reminisce about tree tar, Guy, I can see why you are conspiring to bring it back.

15th July 2008, 01:07 PM	#75
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: lightning strike oak tree I know,they're both annoying and out dated right?[j/k Guy]. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

16th July 2008, 01:01 AM	#78
treevet Backflipper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 2,131	Re: lightning strike oak tree True, and I am quite sure I have read that callus formed in late season in areas with dormancy will begin with callus in the spring but I will have a lot of looking to find this.

16th July 2008, 01:28 AM	#79
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: lightning strike oak tree Yes, just like I know that fungi doesn't colonize wood under 20% moisture content. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

16th July 2008, 11:39 AM	#83
treeseer Former Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 753	Re: lightning strike oak tree Great link to the Tilia callus article, great thread.

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