Japanese Bluberry Tree Help!

ErikU19

Hello everyone,

I have a newly planted Japanese Blueberry tree that has me worried. Originally after planting the tree began to lose some leaves, they would turn light green, yellow, and then red and fall off. I went to the place of purchase and they said it was natural as the tree was slightly stressed from being planted. This was 2 weeks ago.

Today, the tree is losing leaves without them turning red...they will turn a light green and fall off. I have lost a entire 'bussel' of leaves on one branch and another is almost gone as well. I have noticed a 3rd branch that is begining to show the same symptoms (light green leaves).

I went to the place of purchase and they think its getting too much water, or not enough, or may be planted too deep. My guess is that it is getting too much as it is planted about 4 feet away from a low spot between property lines and also looks like it might be planed too deep as the root ball is at least 3 feet below ground (it looks like this tree perfers shallow, wide planting). My neighbor instructed me to plant it deep...well, so much for that advice.

Anyways, what should i do? I was thinking about digging the tree out and planting it the depth of the root ball (1 - 1.5') and seeing what happens. I dont think its going to make it if i cut down on watering alone..

Here are some pictures to aid in my desciptions...thanks much!

White tips before all leaves fell off...


Insects eating leaves?


2 branches with all leaves fallen off


Slope of ground by tree

ErikU19

I should add that it has been a total of 4 weeks since planting. I went to the nursery after 2 weeks for the white tips, and it has been 2 weeks since.

Brent Ferris

If you pull the mulch away so the stem of the tree is apart from the mulch, is the base of the stem even with the grade or below grade? Stem bark can't take being wet, root bark can't take being dry. It is vitally important to plant the tree at the right height,

Planting a tree too deep is as bad as planting it too shallow. And many people push a little soil aside, put the ball and burlap into the shallow hole, and mound the dirt around the ball and call it planted. If this is what your neighbour was thinking, then planting deep (or deeper) is good advice.

You don't say if the tree was B and B or container or bareroot. If it was container, or B & B - is the soil surrounding the tree roots the same as the soil it is planted in? Dissimilar soil can cause havoc for plants. And if it was B & B was the burlap removed?

How much are you watering, and when do you water.

ErikU19

Thanks for the reply Treeshaveneeds,

I'm not sure what you mean by stem/base, but the top of the root ball/top of the container which the tree came in is probably a foot below grade. I pulled away the mulch yesterday and the top 3 inches of soil was soaking wet. I've also been proding to the root ball with a long wood rod (per the nursery) and checking the moisture level and its been continuosly wet. Wet as in the rod comes up with wet soil

I'm not sure if the soil is different, but we did dig deep enought to pass clay and plant to tree in soil

There also seems to be a greenish color on the trunk from the grade about 2 feet up.

The tree was being watered in the begining every other day via a drip irrigation system that would dispense 2-4 gallons over 1 hour. There was also a sprinkler head behind and outside the tree about 5 feet that watered the grass near it. Both have been closed in an attempt to dry the soil (closed yesterday).

ErikU19

We have also had some pretty serious rain storms about 6 days ago which dumped rain...which is why i think its getting too much rain.

The nursery just says to keep an eye on it, perhaps use some root stimulator or some fertilizer (azalea) if it doesnt subside. They cover the tree for 6 months, but i would really like to get this one healthy.

Brent Ferris

Between the root ball and the beginning of the stem there should be a ring of tissue which indicates the beginning of the stem (up) and the root ball (down). This tissue should be at grade. Deeper than that, the roots don't get enough oxygen and suffocate. Excess water exacerbates the problem.

I am concerned about . This sounds like clay was added as a topper on top of the existing topsoil. Firstly, most trees will grow in clay, but it is not a first choice. However, because of the small pores in clay, it is hard to get water in and hard to get it out. It is even harder to get water to drain to lower levels if the lower levels are also not clay. Additionally, if a clay layer was added on top of regular top soil, you run a serious risk of having your very own perched water table. This condition can be beneficial if you want wetland plants to grow nowhere near wetlands, but for most plants, a perched water table is a serious problem.

You need to ascertain the thickness of the clay, how much it differs from the underlying soils, and how widespread is the condition.

ErikU19

The first 8 to 10 inches is clay throughout the whole subdivision...with the good soil underneath.

After reading everyones input it's almost certainly buried too deep drowning in water and being starves of oxygen .

Should I pull it out and raise it up?

Brent Ferris

Absolutely. Dig it up, plant it with the stem/root interface at ground level and cross your fingers.

THe next biggest problem you are going to have is that 10 inches of clay above the top soil. THe top soil has the nutrients and the best place for plants to grow. Ideally, the clay should be stripped off and replaced with topsoil. I say replaced, because otherwise your property would be below your neighbours' properties and the rainwater/spring runoff would flood yours. Unless you're in the landscaping trade, or you have won a lottery, this is not likely to happen.

The next best solution is to DRILL a LOT of holes.

How many? Draw out a grid with spacing of 6 inches x 6 inches, and drill a hole, minimum 1 inch diameter (up to 2 inch diameter), at each intersection, and drill down thru the clay and 4 inches into the underlying topsoil. And remove the clay soil and dispose of it.
The idea is to enhance water drainage, oxygen exchange, nutrient access, and more earthworm activity. Fill the holes with organic matter - like leaves, or composted leaves, compost, straw, grass clippings -stuff that is easily broken down to encourage earthworm activity and their lateral movement. Earthworms will tunnel thru clay if there is the promise of more food, and you need the tunnelling action and the residual worm poop to get your plants to grow.

How big a grid? Well, here's the onerous part.

You want to grid your whole property. Not just the beds or where you might plant a tree. THe grass will benefit from this manoeuvre, and of course any shrub or tree you will plant, understanding that roots grow outwards from the trunk 2-3 x the width of the natural canopy. Additionally, when you have heavy rain, the rain will penetrate faster, you'll have a greater reservoir of soil moisture for plants to draw on, and the lawn won't squish under your feet when you walk on it.
Some people take the cheap way out and stick in the tines of a fork. Firstly, all you're doing is compressing the soil around the perimeter of where the tines sank in. No soil is being removed, no organic matter is being added to the clay, the effect lasts about as long as it takes you to walk over the lawn, and the plasticity of the clay fills these little "holes" back in.
Some people rent an aerator, which takes out little plugs of soil 2-3" deep and congratulate themselves on a great job with less effort. So you have a bunch of holes - say 3 inches deep, maybe 1/2 inch diameter. But, the clay has not been punched thru. There is no enhanced oxygen exchange, no water drainage, no nutrient access, and no earthworm activity. You are only fooling yourself, and the plants won't buy it.

THe best option is to rent a hammer drill and use a masonry drill to do the drilling. You want a drill bit 16 to 18 inches long, and you want carbide, because if you hit a stone you'll destroy a regular bit (and a spade bit compresses the soil around the hole, removing very little). And since you are probably in a new subdivision, there will likely be bits of drywall, bricks, mortar, stone, wood and other goodies on top of the topsoil covered by the clay. The carbide bit on the hammer drill will go thru the bricks, concrete, mortar, probably push aside the wood, and you'll never know about the drywall or plaster. The bad part is the weight of the drill. They can be heavy. If you can rent a HILTI or a similar heavy duty low-geared drill -- all the better. You want low gearing, and you want a reverse. THe reverse is if you get stuck. You want forward speed to go in and out, because this will pull the soil out of the hole -- reverse leaves the soil in, and gets the bit out, but defeats the reason for the hole.
The second bad part is drilling. You will be bent over to do the drilling. If your lawn is say 100 feet deep x 50 ft wide or 5000 sq ft, with a hole every 6 inches, you'll be looking at 20 000 holes. A BIG undertaking. Hopefully your lawn is smaller than this. But if not, assuming you drill one hole every 30 seconds - this translates to over 150 hours. Get some STRONG friends to help, and with relays you might get in 4 holes/ minute knocking the time down to 70-80 hours (assuming minimal breaks - since you are in relays). But the drill will also need some breaks to cool down, it will get too hot to hold.... After the first hour of drilling, even with breaks, you prob won't be able to straighten up. And you still have to add organic matter to the holes, and remove the soil the drill brought out of the hole.

I have done this job for clients. No one has contracted for this many holes yet, but I charge around $1.50 to $2 per hole plus material (organic matter) plus disposal (soil tailings) Plus equipment rental. With two of us working, we can usually drill, clean and fill about 600-800 holes per day - depending on how deep we need to drill. (One job I worked on last fall, some of the overburden was 30 inches thick, and we drilled 36 inches deep. Then we were lucky to get 100 holes per day - but the price also went up) And even if you're in good shape, that is a lot of holes to drill.

Of course, math comes to your rescue here. At $2 per hole (assuming you can find someone), and 20 000 holes, you'll be shelling out $40 000 plus extras. It would probably be cheaper to get a landscaper in with a bobcat to remove the clay and crap, and add in GOOD topsoil --(get samples tested), and relay the lawn. And then you can forget about all those holes, and everything will grow better.

New subdivisions can enhance your life with amazing experiences. Sorry, just a little sarcasm.

ErikU19

She is coming up now.

I have top soild that was delivered for the beds (7 yards)...i originally planted the tree surrounded by this, but it doesnt help beyond that where clay still sits.

Thanks for all of the help, it is GREATLY appreciated.

Brent Ferris

I am glad to read you moved quickly to try to save the tree.

Unfortunately, if you now have topsoil over clay over topsoil, this will not solve the problem of a perched water table. It will just give you better soil to put plants in.

ErikU19

I pulled the tree out and raised it 12-18 inches. I also pulled all the soil/clay mix out and replaced it with purchased top soil (below, around, above). We will see what happens...i did note though that the root ball did not grow, at all, beyond what came already in the container.

I'm not sure how often i should water it now that its been re-planted. What do you think? I dont want to water it and perpetuate the issue already at hand...but i dont want it to dry out either.

I used some root stimulator in hoping it aides the planting...

keeping my fingers crossed, i'll report back and let you know.

Thanks again for the help!

Brent Ferris

As at least one other forum member responded, stick your finger in the soil, and if it comes out wet, or the soil sticks to the finger, or the soil feels damp leave it be. If the soil falls off, it is dry and time to water.
Few plants - excepting wetland plants -- actually like to be in water soaked soil all the time. It probably has to do with oxygenation of the soil -- ie oxygen films around or near the soil particles, and absorption of the oxygen by the roots. Because roots don't just absorb water and nutrients, they also breathe. And plants that grow in regular soil, need to have the soil dry out to get proper gaseous exchange. Wetland plants presumably have the ability to absorb oxygen from the water, or in some species, can tolerate very low oxygen conditions or utilize other gases eg black spruce, alder etc.
Since most established plants can tolerate soils drying out for a few days, waiting until the soil goes from dampish to dryish, should be fine. If the soil is too wet, the plant suffocates, the leaves fall off, and death is the result. If the soil dries too much -- baked dry -- the root cells become parched, and dessication leads to cellular death, and the tree dies. There is a lot of room between these two extremes. Use some common sense, and the plant should work out.

The top soil you bought -- it was bagged, bulk ....?
There are 3 easy ways to determine the content of the soil you bought.
One is feeling it as it comes to you. It should be friable. This means it easily crumbles in your fingers. This should mean it has some sand(10-50%), some clay (10-20%), poss some silt(10-20%), and some organic matter(10-50%). If it feels really gritty, it probably has lots of sand. If it feels very plastic, a high clay content, if it feels woody or smells woodsy or manure like, then it has some organic matter. Silt has soil particle sizes between sand and clay.
The second method is to take a small sample -- a closed fistful is almost too much - add some spit or water to it and create a moist slurry. Roll it into a cigar shape and hold it up. If it breaks immediately there is likely a lot of organic matter; if it holds then breaks, a lot of silt; if it holds and doesn't break, a lot of clay; if it can't be formed, a lot of sand.
The third method is to take about 200 ml by volume (sorry, I am referring to the 500 ml plastic drinking bottles - in imperial that would be 1/4 to 1/2 pint in a pint bottle), and add it to an empty bottle, add water until about 3/4 full, cap it tightly, and shake it up, and set it aside (and label and date the bottle). The sand should settle out within a few minutes, the silt within 1-3 days, the clay within a month (or more) and the organic matter usually floats on top (fines may colour the sample). This method takes the longest but can give a visual clue as to how much of each soil type is present by the different layers that form. There are soil pyramids that can ID soil types, but that is not necessary here. As long as you have a small amount of clay and/or silt (up to 20%), and the balance is sand and organic matter, you should have good topsoil. While you are at it, test the original topsoil, and the layers below it to get a feeling for the depth of each soil horizon, and its contents. It only costs a few plastic bottles, and time on a little used shelf for perhaps a month, but it gives you quantifiable and verifiable knowledge.
A fourth method is to use screens of different sizes to sift the soil particles, and a few other high tech (pricey) methods, but they are not necessary here.

Well firstly, the plant was planted too deep - so not enough oyxgen, the soil was saturated - drowning (not enough oxygen), and you wanted the roots to grow while it was holding its breath? How well does working at a complex task work for you when you're snorkelling, and dive down to take a look at something on the bottom? I am not mocking you, just step back and think about what the tree had to contend with, and it was supposed to perform too?

A lot of people seem to think roots rapidly grow when you take them out of the container and put them in a new environment.
So, did you spread the soil apart and break up the compressed soil condition before planting? The tree roots have to overcome those conditions before they can grow out into the brave new world. Assuming of course the soil, and growing conditions are virtually the same. Ideally, the plant should not know it was moved.
Typically, a plant just sort of sits there and takes stock of the surroundings for about a week before anything visible to us happens (unless it is in shock, or drowning, or suffocating, or dying). Roots will then start to elongate, but the root hairs are pretty fine - often less than 1/100 to 1/10th of a millimetre in diameter. And the root hairs have to find the way before the roots can increase in diameter and become the kind of structures we call roots. I don't know what your eyeballs are like, but I don't think I would notice root hairs that fine, and they would probably get pulled off no matter how careful I was.

And if there is stuff in the way, like building debris, roots, rocks, air pockets, clay balls (in sandy soils) etc. , the root hairs have to find a way around or thru the obstruction -- and it is usually around. In fact, annuals planted in the spring, in those little peat pockets or fabric-y pockets, can be pulled out in the fall, and the roots never extended beyond the artificial pocket. That is one growing season. That is why you often read, "once the plant is established, it can withstand.....(less watering, more pruning, fertilizing...)". This is also why the first year of planting is so critical.

There are other factors. As I mentioned before, is the soil that was in the container your plant came with, the same as the soil you planted it in?
I already also mentioned pulling apart the soil when the container was removed. I have dug up plants two years after planting, with the same container shape intact, and no root penetration.
What kind of sun was the plant exposed to in the nursery? Was it full sun, part sun, shade -- was it on its own, or with a number of other plants. Were these conditions duplicated when you brought the plant home and planted it?
Which way was the plant facing in the nursery, and did the stem that faced north in the nursery remain facing north on your property?
When you brought it home, was it in the back of a pickup exposed to drying winds, hot sun, or in a hot stuffy car with high temperatures?
Did you plant it right away, or let it sit around for a few days drying out?

Most people never think about these added problems for trees/shrubs/plants. They buy them, plant them when they get around to it, and wonder why the plants don't perform.

You appear to have taken at least normal precautions, and shown a reasonable amount of caring. Hopefully your Japanese Blueberry tree appreciates your efforts and will respond, making both of you happy.

ErikU19

Good deal. I was using the 3 inch rule, so i'll continue to do so.

It was bagged, and mostly of organic material that would support good drainage. Scotts, to be exact....expensive dirt, but after reading your recommendations i wanted to do it right the second time around!


Let's hope so! Thanks again for long and thought-out responses.

TreeSpecialist

Having lived in Houston, I understand the clay soil problems all too well.

Aeration and turn the water off is the simplest thing to do. Let the tree actually wilt a little before watering it.

Aerate the whole yard? Not necessary - aerate beneath and about 3 feet out from the tree. Don't use a "hammer drill" as this can compact the soil making it worse.

Also, you didn't mention what products you used on the yard to make it so green. What kind of fertilizer product are you using?

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ErikU19

I use Scotts Fertilizers...originally after I installed the sprinkler system in march Bonus S Max, and then bonus s every 4 weeks after (i used a shot of Green Max a month or so ago)...its finally filled in quite nicely

TreeSpecialist

You mention one of the products I strongly advise people to stay away from.

From their own web site, Scott states:

"Where Not to Use
Stay 18-24 inches away from plants, flowers, and mulched areas. Not registered for use under dripzone of trees and shrubs."

Weed & Feed Fertilizers are terrible products anywhere near trees. Trees can and do store material - grass does not. When presented with fertilizer laced with herbicide, the tree will store as much as it has room for only to knock the leaves off the tree for weeks, months and sometimes years to come.

Look for a natural product called the Lady Bug®? brand of fertilizer from the Natural Gardener. You won't find it at the box stores - look at the small nurseries around town. It is infinitely superior to the other products out there and won't hurt the trees, shrubs, or the environment.

Check them out at: The Natural Gardener: Organic Gardening Headquarters

__________________

Brent Ferris

TS I wasn't recommending aerating the whole lawn for one shrub/tree -- I was concerned about later plantings and the effect of surplus clay on top of an existing topsoil soil profile.

Thanks for your info on the fertilizers, and the local sources.