Jacaranda trees fence line disputes

Liz

Hello to those who can lend a friendly ear. I have a neighbour (Kingsgrove Sydney N.SW) who had planted a Jacaranda only 12 inches from our fence line & 2 metres from my sewer line. Think its been in the ground for about 1yr. Is 6ft tall with still a narrow trunk. Am I worrying unnecessarily about the problems it's position might cause. Looking forward to some feedback.

Thanks from Liz.

philodendron

Well Liz, considering that a Jacaranda has a fair expectation of growing to 12 x 12 metres, with a trunk diam of 60+ cm, and doesn't mind a bit of water if an old sewer is nearby, I think it would be prudent to move it next winter during its dormant period-July August should be OK. If its 2m tall, try to get a rootball 50-60 cm across and say 30-40cm deep.
It may take a few weeks longer to kick back and start reshooting but it will, given water and a dose or 2 of Formula 20.
Most people just seem to ignore what they see all around in terms of potential tree sizes, leading to problems or a tree which has to be cut down and wasted.
Regards
Philodendron

Eric Frei

Liz, if you followed many of my posts on this sort of tree planting and foresight you would see I'm as disappointed and concerned as you are.

Here's a thread on it.

Queensland Australia Fence Line Law

Whilst there's council regulations on even sheds people can plant whatever they like where ever they like. It is also done in an anti social behavioural sense where the trees are used as weapons in a fight to aggravate neighbours.

Then imagine and possible, down the track the tree could get protected taking right of way over what you do in your property. The tree has an allowance for roots to so if you wanted to re-landscape, excavate, put a pool in etc the tree owner could argue due to root damage what you do on your own land. In an extreme sense tree huggers or difficult neighbours could plant out their entire fence-lines with large trees and possibly control the neighbouring properties, totally unacceptable.

Simply unacceptable and clearly shows the flaws of landscape management and town planning.

If I were you I would approach the neighbour nicely and request it be moved, failing that then prepare written document perhaps by an arborist and "put them on notice". Send the letter certified mail and keep records.

Inform your local councillor of the inadequacies of the current state of affairs pertaining to tree selection and planting.

Fancy that, tree owners dictating what you can and cannot do on your property especially when coming from a trespassing point of view ... yes, both tree roots and canopy that come over your side of the fence are trespassing.

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Sean Freeman

Hello Liz, you're lucky that in NSW there is an excellent bit of legislation that is helping to manage the inevitable problems that our small yards throw up when people want (understandably) to grow large trees.

I would approach your neighbour and talk through with them your concerns letting them know why you are concerned and see if they are prepared to move the tree, as has been pointed out such a small sapling can be safely effectively moved with very little negative impact on the tree (if done properly). Hopefully your neighbour is a pleasant reasonable person, and will repsond to your request...you're not asking them to remove the tree just move it further from the fence based on its known genetic potential.

Eric Frei

So Sean, how does that "excellent bit of legislation" help in this specific instance?

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Sean Freeman

No one can force a neighbour to do anything with a sapling that has yet grown into a problem mate...and frankly nor should they be able to.....just think that through eh?

The fact that there is legislation to help properly manage disputes over trees and fencelines can help in this case because the previous rulings that Liz can read...as can her neighbour...show what they could likely both expect from the examination of their (as yet hypothetical) dispute.

Common sense you would hope would prevail.....if not that has nothing to do with the tree and everything to do with the personalities envolved.

Eric Frei

Exactly, the legislation does nothing for prevention.

What Liz can see is when the tree trespasses she (the victim) undergoes a lot of rigmarole to defend her case. Hardly a proper system and has it's flaws.

Then when the tree has grown larger ....

But a tree owner can to a degree force neighbours to do something. So whilst you can smugly say too bad for the neighbour whilst it's a sapling for every year that sapling grows it's like the pendulum swinging against Liz in this case, and the outcomes of the cases show that. Then the sapling becomes a tree and Liz loses ... think that through, loses rights on her own property.

I did read one case where Judge Judy recommended the removal of Bunya nuts on a frequent basis, pretty tough task for any climber when there's targets beneath.

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Liz

Hi All, thanks heaps for the helpful feedback. Much appreciated.
Not sure of my plan of attack at this stage. Had spoken to the neighbour (husband) a month ago before airing my problem here. He mentioned he will rip out at the first sign rouble, but that might mean at my expense of a plumber first ??
Anyway, I'm not in the good books with the wife who had words with me pulling away some vine from my back brick wall of my garage where their climbing vine had invaded.
Another words not having fun managing neighbourly relations over past 12months.

Eric Frei

Yeah, typical.

Why let the tree establish?

And isn't it funny, you talking to him about the tree and your concerns isn't the first sign of trouble.

I asked my neighbour about his tree, answer was similar, I'll be dead before that breaks your wall. There you go, considerate eh. Funny if then the tree is protected and I incur additional costs to design around his tree.

So I take it you also pulled their vine off your wall and they didn't like that either, if it was me I would have poisoned it (the vine).

We have creeping vine coming from the crap hole behind us, I spray it with round up ... works a treat.

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Liz

Thanks for your support Ekka, Philodendron & Sean...
Ekka the vine travelled around from my side wall (unfortunately my garage is on the fence line border, where they've taken claim to doing what they want with my side wall) to my back wall. I tugged at this creeper once & got annoyed the 2nd time round, so you can imagine the extra effort I put into the 2nd pull. This is what upset her. If she knows every inch of the vine as she claims then she should have pruned it. This ivy has strong ugly marking roots which will eventually damage old mortar (which mine is). If anyone should be upset, it's certainly not her !! Give me strength...

Eric Frei

More like a dirty big bat to beat some common sense into these fools.

Good luck, daily I deal with this and people think coz it's green it's right.

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Liz

thanks again Ekka - need heaps of luck... & endurance.
Will keep all posted with futures, so watch this space.
Here's hoping

Eric Frei

Pssst, they're falling like flies here.

New Farm Jacarandas

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Liz

Dear Ekka, I get your point - but guess I'm a tad timid since I've already broached the tree subject with hubby, they'll know it was me. They will then do unto others ?? Why I didn't bother debating over the vine & I did use a bit of Roundup. Time will tell.

Eric Frei

I have a simple philosophy in my yard, stay within it!

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Sean Freeman

Yes it has flaws...what do you expect? It devised by people to attempt in the best way possible to manage the madness that people get up to when they live next to each other!

By your reckoning (it would seem) the fence police should be able to come into my yard and rip out any tree I plant in my ground? and this is better how exactly
People should be able to live next to each other and be considerate of each others needs...including the need not to have their property torn apart by the roots of a massive tree, you can't legislate away self centred stupidity Eric..what you're objecting to isn't the trees mate, can't you see that? Its the idiots who plant it there and have no consideration for their neighbours, just like the gits who rev their V8 at 7am Sunday morning or party till 3am every Fri/Sat...no laws no matter how well thought through will prevent them from doing it, there are laws to deal with the event after the fact and mate that is what the NSW act does...nothing more nothing less....

philodendron

Liz
I didn't go on this site to tout for business, but if you need a consulting horticulturist's report , drop me a line. 94563192.
Regards
Philodendron

Eric Frei

Eye eye Sean, gits everywhere, it aint the trees fault .... yet. But when it is the git will blame the tree, the govt, the neighbour etc. Gits need sorting out somehow.

I still say the NSW law does not deal with it fairly. And that is why it is likely many people take matters into their own hands.

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Therrin

Sean, I didn't read what Ekka had written as saying anything similar to your bit about coming into your yard and ripping up your tree. (hypothetical, yes).

It's more stating, do what you wish with your property, but don't complain about my rights to cut and hack to pieces any bit of crown or root system which invades my property line.
You can have as much tree as you want on your property, as long as it doesn't cross over into mine. And if I cut and hack and poison anything on "my side" of the property, deal with it quietly, or don't plant something close enough to invade there, then complain when a neighbor does something to enforce their property rights.

Say someone built a garage in their backyard, and it had a living space built above it, which overhung your fence by 8 feet. You'd be saying WTF... keep your shit on your side!!! What do you think you're doing, that's my property, I don't want to deal with that! But at the same time you'd ignore a tree covering significantly more air (and ground) space, without thinking about it.

Eric Frei

Another quote today.

Neighbours poinciana tree planted 1m away from fenceline is coming over fence. Only about 6' off fenceline is the house and roofed pergola. Branches rubbing etc.

The lady has only been there since September and I asked her to talk with the neib about it. Irony is on the neibs side they have perhaps 30' between the tree and their house which is blank lawn. Go figure.

To make matters worse now the buttress and surface root system is also starting to encroach. This is the walkway area between house and fence.

A back to fence line on this will look awful. Back to target beyond fence line better but depends on neib. Will be difficult job as big limbs and side of house is all glass windows, no high point etc. Maybe pole saw bits off from roof?

See what happens, maybe nothing, I did suggest crown lift to clear roof but customer not happy about the leaves, flat roof, forget gutter guard.

Had another ring from the Gold Coast, asked unprotected tree has branches coming over the fence am I allowed to cut? Of course I said providing it does not kill or destabilize the tree. Asked for quote but I dont go to Gold Coast.

I'm not lying when I say I get this nearly every day.

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treeseer

Not exactly trespassing; trespassing's a human act.

Liz, have you considered finding out the neighbor's goals in planting the tree, and find a way for them to get what they want out of the landscape in a way that benefits you both? I work a lot with property line vegetation, and if the two talk it over as they look at a plant book they often come up with a mutually agreeable plan and share the cost then it's all good.

O and re the vine, my neighbor has a wisteria that climbs up my chestnut tree if I let it. Pulling on it would just tick em off--and be trespassing!-- so I just clip it at (or near) the line now and then. Yes, I could pull on it, but I'd rather treat them and theirs with respect, and expect they will do the same.

Calling em gits and treating em like lesser beings is a losing strategy. Kid stuff. Ekka, what goes around...

Eric Frei

Inconsiderate gits they are Guy. Thanks for the term Sean. LOL

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Eric Frei

Hey, here's the one we did.

Source:

Brisbane - Living In - Garden Advice - Chinese Elm - Wooloowin - ourbrisbane.com

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Sean Freeman

I think perhaps what Eric was meaning was nuisance, not trespass...at least not trespass in the legal sense, but we both know what he's getting at.

Just for clarity those who are interested heres the current Qld Govt position...Department of Justice and the Attorney General : Trees

Please note the use of appropriate decriptors....ie lopping (some really well paid legal minds wrote this stuff
Also just for fun click on the resolving conflict button and note that the Dept of Justice does not provide advice or info regarding Dividing Fences Act Looks like you're not the only one struggling with making legislation fit human indiscretions

Eric Frei

That's even tougher than the description from Legal Aid office, you can chuck it back according to that but mate ... I wouldn't go doing that!

I'm sure the dividing fences act is Federal Govt.

Here's the other thread. Queensland Australia Fence Line Law

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treeseer

It still amazes me that in one country you own the earth below and the sky above, and all therein (including trees and their parts), and in another that apple overhanging you belongs to the other just because they own the stem.

And both countries started from english common law.

Eric Frei

Hey, I just gotta know the law that's all. How they derived it sheesh, beyond me.

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Liz

Treeseer, thanks for the advice...but too late. Neib already ticked off. But respect ? She had none when she didn't give me the courtesy to see how I felt about the vine against my garage wall. She took the liberty of already chopping back my overhangings (& more). World war 3 may have started. She's not thought out the consequences of bringing up a toddler & infant in an unfriendly environment - typical of an only child who's use to having everything her own way.

Eric Frei

Share the cost? What is this some socialist or commune style thinking?

Now we have to console and fund neighbours properties as well as our own?

I have 3 neighbours so now I'm supposed to go have meeting with them, find their landscaping ambitions, discuss and get it mutually agreeable and help fund it, far out, I dont even think they do that in Nimbin.

Liz shouldn't have to anything, and the git next door should get some brains.

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Sean Freeman

Liz, I'm very sorry your neighbour appears to not be giving you the consideration that hopefully we are all giving our neighbours (though I seriously doubt that we are doing that? any of us, and yes I'm only really speaking for myself)

The tree is a sapling, it is causing no nuisance as yet, you have spoken to them and they have verbally agreed to take measures to rectify future problems...if I understand what you've written thus far?
I would be suggesting to your neighbours that doing something now will be much easier and cheaper than waiting 5-10yrs. But if they decide they are unwilling then there is nothing you can do at this stage....and I personally think that is quite right and proper, if I went around trying to rectify problems now in my neighbourhood that I believe will become an issue in 5-10yrs I'd be locked away for a very very long time!

Liz I'm not having a go at you, I have helped (mostly successfully, but not always) many too many disputing neighbours manage their (apparently) tree related issues, when it is very clear to someone on the outside that trees are really merely the latest in a long line of issues that they have disagreement on.

Jacarandas are one of the more beautiful trees that grow in cooler climates of Oz, when left alone and not in conflict with buildings too close to the stem. I very much wish more people tried to grow them up here...they don't and those that do hack them within 1" of their lives.

I really think Guy is revealing a very different attitude to boundaries that just doesn't exist (for the most part) here and no its not socialist or commune style thinking (though sure throw those terms in if it suits your arguement....not a great many socialists in the USA, and very few communes) this was raised in another thread recently about fenceless properties.