Jacaranda trees fence line disputes

treeseer · 31st January 2008, 03:14 AM

It still amazes me that in one country you own the earth below and the sky above, and all therein (including trees and their parts), and in another that apple overhanging you belongs to the other just because they own the stem.

And both countries started from english common law.

Ekka · 31st January 2008, 03:38 AM

Hey, I just gotta know the law that's all. How they derived it sheesh, beyond me.

Liz · 31st January 2008, 12:45 PM

Treeseer, thanks for the advice...but too late. Neib already ticked off. But respect ? She had none when she didn't give me the courtesy to see how I felt about the vine against my garage wall. She took the liberty of already chopping back my overhangings (& more). World war 3 may have started. She's not thought out the consequences of bringing up a toddler & infant in an unfriendly environment - typical of an only child who's use to having everything her own way.

Ekka · 31st January 2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

I work a lot with property line vegetation, and if the two talk it over as they look at a plant book they often come up with a mutually agreeable plan and share the cost then it's all good.

Share the cost? What is this some socialist or commune style thinking?

Now we have to console and fund neighbours properties as well as our own?

I have 3 neighbours so now I'm supposed to go have meeting with them, find their landscaping ambitions, discuss and get it mutually agreeable and help fund it, far out, I dont even think they do that in Nimbin.

Liz shouldn't have to anything, and the git next door should get some brains.

Sean Freeman · 31st January 2008, 01:58 PM

Liz, I'm very sorry your neighbour appears to not be giving you the consideration that hopefully we are all giving our neighbours (though I seriously doubt that we are doing that? any of us, and yes I'm only really speaking for myself)

The tree is a sapling, it is causing no nuisance as yet, you have spoken to them and they have verbally agreed to take measures to rectify future problems...if I understand what you've written thus far?
I would be suggesting to your neighbours that doing something now will be much easier and cheaper than waiting 5-10yrs. But if they decide they are unwilling then there is nothing you can do at this stage....and I personally think that is quite right and proper, if I went around trying to rectify problems now in my neighbourhood that I believe will become an issue in 5-10yrs I'd be locked away for a very very long time!

Liz I'm not having a go at you, I have helped (mostly successfully, but not always) many too many disputing neighbours manage their (apparently) tree related issues, when it is very clear to someone on the outside that trees are really merely the latest in a long line of issues that they have disagreement on.

Jacarandas are one of the more beautiful trees that grow in cooler climates of Oz, when left alone and not in conflict with buildings too close to the stem. I very much wish more people tried to grow them up here...they don't and those that do hack them within 1" of their lives.

I really think Guy is revealing a very different attitude to boundaries that just doesn't exist (for the most part) here and no its not socialist or commune style thinking (though sure throw those terms in if it suits your arguement....not a great many socialists in the USA, and very few communes) this was raised in another thread recently about fenceless properties.

treeseer · 31st January 2008, 02:38 PM

Right Sean, not a political issue at all. Neighbors can choose to cooperate whether they are fascists or Luddites. It just makes sense where space allows to use vegetation to define borders. Consider that in the city we are affected by borrowed landscapes more than the ones we own.

I've seen shared hedges and trees bring people together if they bring a positive attitude into it. But yes if their thinking is stinking then any trifle is a battleground. "Private property rights" trigger some weird aggression over here too.

Liz, it sounds like the vine is a bigger problem than the tree right now. By using strings and trellises, vines can be useful screen with no cost other than a snip now and then.

Can you post a picture?

Ekka · 31st January 2008, 08:31 PM

Yes, people are unusual.

I see planted vegetation different to remnant though.

Guy, also realize we aren't as old as say USA. It's not like the bulk of the arguments are over 300 year old oaks etc, a lot of it is waring.

Now the English went to the extreme with their hedge thing. I'll never forget the 60 minutes blurb on it showing people screened in friggin 80' cypress hedges. So a law was brought out (or resolution process etc with parameters).

It always intrigues me why people cant settle it, and when the phone rings with another fence-line job I always think "oh no, here we go again". I always ask if they have spoken with the neighbour but you can tell you're not getting the full story.

Hey Guy, what about when the trunk is co-owned, then there's some real ripper fights. LOL

Liz · 1st February 2008, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Share the cost? What is this some socialist or commune style thinking?

Now we have to console and fund neighbours properties as well as our own?

I have 3 neighbours so now I'm supposed to go have meeting with them, find their landscaping ambitions, discuss and get it mutually agreeable and help fund it, far out, I dont even think they do that in Nimbin.

Liz shouldn't have to anything, and the git next door should get some brains.

Ekka, I agree... I believe in donations to charities and worthy causes, but this is problem is not one of them. Do I have $$ stamped across my forehead ? Is 'miss money bags' my name ?

Liz · 1st February 2008, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

Right Sean, not a political issue at all. Neighbors can choose to cooperate whether they are fascists or Luddites. It just makes sense where space allows to use vegetation to define borders. Consider that in the city we are affected by borrowed landscapes more than the ones we own.

I've seen shared hedges and trees bring people together if they bring a positive attitude into it. But yes if their thinking is stinking then any trifle is a battleground. "Private property rights" trigger some weird aggression over here too.

Liz, it sounds like the vine is a bigger problem than the tree right now. By using strings and trellises, vines can be useful screen with no cost other than a snip now and then.

Can you post a picture?

Treeseer, I wouldn't have minded the vine if it was on a trellis rather than attached to old mortar, and they were keeping it under control.
Here is a pic of it: Had trouble working out how to add attachment. Hope this works

Liz · 1st February 2008, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

Liz, I'm very sorry your neighbour appears to not be giving you the consideration that hopefully we are all giving our neighbours (though I seriously doubt that we are doing that? any of us, and yes I'm only really speaking for myself)

The tree is a sapling, it is causing no nuisance as yet, you have spoken to them and they have verbally agreed to take measures to rectify future problems...if I understand what you've written thus far?
I would be suggesting to your neighbours that doing something now will be much easier and cheaper than waiting 5-10yrs. But if they decide they are unwilling then there is nothing you can do at this stage....and I personally think that is quite right and proper, if I went around trying to rectify problems now in my neighbourhood that I believe will become an issue in 5-10yrs I'd be locked away for a very very long time!

Liz I'm not having a go at you, I have helped (mostly successfully, but not always) many too many disputing neighbours manage their (apparently) tree related issues, when it is very clear to someone on the outside that trees are really merely the latest in a long line of issues that they have disagreement on.

Jacarandas are one of the more beautiful trees that grow in cooler climates of Oz, when left alone and not in conflict with buildings too close to the stem. I very much wish more people tried to grow them up here...they don't and those that do hack them within 1" of their lives.

I really think Guy is revealing a very different attitude to boundaries that just doesn't exist (for the most part) here and no its not socialist or commune style thinking (though sure throw those terms in if it suits your arguement....not a great many socialists in the USA, and very few communes) this was raised in another thread recently about fenceless properties.

Sean, yes I have approached the neib (hubby) who is not willing to do anything till first sign of trouble. The wife planted it & she wears the pants in the family.
I agree with you that Jackies are beautiful, but don't believe they're functional in suburbia where land is under 1/2 sq acre. The blue/purple is my favourite colour, but common sense prevails...consider the needs of others. Selfishness doesn't promote harmony.

Sean Freeman · 1st February 2008, 01:20 PM

Liz, go here Caselaw: Land and Environment Court
read through the judgements from this year 2008, get a feel for how the Act is being interpreted, the judgements etc... I'm hoping you will see how future problems relating to the Jacaranda would be dealt with...and no it's my understanding you do not have to wait till the tree is actually destroying things to make use of the Act...but you could easily find out what legal options are available by going here Community Info - Lawlink Corporate : Lawlink NSW
and contacting either LawAccess NSW or Legal Information Access Centre.

I hope they're helpful...I personally do think the NSW Act works and works very well, its not perfect no laws are.

I do think given the smattering of NSW Arbs here getting one of them to come out and write a small brief report on the predictable consequences of the saplings growth in its current location might also be of great benefit to you in reasoning with your neighbours....it would also help your position later on too

Ekka · 1st February 2008, 08:44 PM

Liz, this particular case is similar to yours in a way.

Bowan v Glanville [2008] NSWLEC 10

This is interesting ....

Quote:

General pruning to boundary

1. The parties understand that the property boundaries extend vertically above and below the location of the boundary on the ground;
2. The parties understand that land owners have common law rights to prune overhanging vegetation back to the boundary at their own cost;
3. Mrs Bowan will prune overhanging leaves and twigs back to the boundary when she chooses, at her cost;
4. Mrs Bowan will not seek Mr Glanville?s agreement prior to pruning, nor ask him to do that pruning;
5. Mrs Bowan may place the leaf and twig prunings of Mr Glanville?s plants back onto his property at the corner of the metal fence where Mr Glanville puts his grass clippings.

And also this ....

Quote:

Future Planting

21. For any future planting, Mr Glanville will select plants and planting locations that will not lead to unreasonable growth over common boundaries with Mrs Bowan.

However do read the many other cases and what you will see for larger trees is a clear loss of the above mentioned "rights".

Gett'm when they're small!

Liz · 10th March 2008, 04:29 AM

Hi All,
I have good news to share...the offending jacaranda has been moved by my neighbour, whom I have thanked & shook hands. Since he took the opportunity to cut back his overhangs at the front of our houses from my property, he knew I meant business. Following this, my handyman followed by instructions & did a cut back of my shrubs to the fence line (leaving no room to have my plants cut & thrown back) which has left a real butchered look from their side - nice & green on mine. This wasn't intentional - just the way the shrub grew. Their row of 6 frangi panis' (along side where the jackie was & as close to my sewer line) have started to appear above the fence line & it won't be long before they branch over...so I suggest the moving of the jackie was a stand in good stead. I am elated

Though the wife is still very much put out. There is still friction here, so I don't expect much conversation between us down the line...
Thanks to all of you for your voice regarding this concern.

Sean Freeman · 10th March 2008, 04:34 AM

I'm glad it worked out for you Liz, maybe the annoyed party might be placated with some Anzac Rosemary on the 25th Welcome to the Avenues of Honour project

Ekka · 11th March 2008, 12:24 AM

Well glad you're having some luck, stubborn wanker that lives next to me wont do a thing about his trees or the flooding waterfall, so looks like a lawyers trip now!

Have a look at these pics, it's only a small Jacaranda, check out the driveway .... funny how stupid and arrogant people are isn't it.

So who should pay for this driveway? The neighbour of course. But why do it in the first place? INSANITY ... IT'S CONTAGIOUS I'M SURE.

31st January 2008, 03:14 AM	#26 (permalink)
treeseer Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 410	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line It still amazes me that in one country you own the earth below and the sky above, and all therein (including trees and their parts), and in another that apple overhanging you belongs to the other just because they own the stem. And both countries started from english common law. __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care

31st January 2008, 03:38 AM	#27 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line Hey, I just gotta know the law that's all. How they derived it sheesh, beyond me. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

31st January 2008, 12:45 PM	#28 (permalink)
Liz Gettin' motoring Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sydney, N.SW Posts: 16	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line Treeseer, thanks for the advice...but too late. Neib already ticked off. But respect ? She had none when she didn't give me the courtesy to see how I felt about the vine against my garage wall. She took the liberty of already chopping back my overhangings (& more). World war 3 may have started. She's not thought out the consequences of bringing up a toddler & infant in an unfriendly environment - typical of an only child who's use to having everything her own way.

31st January 2008, 01:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line Liz, I'm very sorry your neighbour appears to not be giving you the consideration that hopefully we are all giving our neighbours (though I seriously doubt that we are doing that? any of us, and yes I'm only really speaking for myself) The tree is a sapling, it is causing no nuisance as yet, you have spoken to them and they have verbally agreed to take measures to rectify future problems...if I understand what you've written thus far? I would be suggesting to your neighbours that doing something now will be much easier and cheaper than waiting 5-10yrs. But if they decide they are unwilling then there is nothing you can do at this stage....and I personally think that is quite right and proper, if I went around trying to rectify problems now in my neighbourhood that I believe will become an issue in 5-10yrs I'd be locked away for a very very long time! Liz I'm not having a go at you, I have helped (mostly successfully, but not always) many too many disputing neighbours manage their (apparently) tree related issues, when it is very clear to someone on the outside that trees are really merely the latest in a long line of issues that they have disagreement on. Jacarandas are one of the more beautiful trees that grow in cooler climates of Oz, when left alone and not in conflict with buildings too close to the stem. I very much wish more people tried to grow them up here...they don't and those that do hack them within 1" of their lives. I really think Guy is revealing a very different attitude to boundaries that just doesn't exist (for the most part) here and no its not socialist or commune style thinking (though sure throw those terms in if it suits your arguement....not a great many socialists in the USA, and very few communes) this was raised in another thread recently about fenceless properties. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

31st January 2008, 02:38 PM	#31 (permalink)
treeseer Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 410	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line Right Sean, not a political issue at all. Neighbors can choose to cooperate whether they are fascists or Luddites. It just makes sense where space allows to use vegetation to define borders. Consider that in the city we are affected by borrowed landscapes more than the ones we own. I've seen shared hedges and trees bring people together if they bring a positive attitude into it. But yes if their thinking is stinking then any trifle is a battleground. "Private property rights" trigger some weird aggression over here too. Liz, it sounds like the vine is a bigger problem than the tree right now. By using strings and trellises, vines can be useful screen with no cost other than a snip now and then. Can you post a picture? __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care

31st January 2008, 08:31 PM	#32 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,669	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line Yes, people are unusual. I see planted vegetation different to remnant though. Guy, also realize we aren't as old as say USA. It's not like the bulk of the arguments are over 300 year old oaks etc, a lot of it is waring. Now the English went to the extreme with their hedge thing. I'll never forget the 60 minutes blurb on it showing people screened in friggin 80' cypress hedges. So a law was brought out (or resolution process etc with parameters). It always intrigues me why people cant settle it, and when the phone rings with another fence-line job I always think "oh no, here we go again". I always ask if they have spoken with the neighbour but you can tell you're not getting the full story. Hey Guy, what about when the trunk is co-owned, then there's some real ripper fights. LOL __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

1st February 2008, 01:20 PM	#36 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line Liz, go here Caselaw: Land and Environment Court read through the judgements from this year 2008, get a feel for how the Act is being interpreted, the judgements etc... I'm hoping you will see how future problems relating to the Jacaranda would be dealt with...and no it's my understanding you do not have to wait till the tree is actually destroying things to make use of the Act...but you could easily find out what legal options are available by going here Community Info - Lawlink Corporate : Lawlink NSW and contacting either LawAccess NSW or Legal Information Access Centre. I hope they're helpful...I personally do think the NSW Act works and works very well, its not perfect no laws are. I do think given the smattering of NSW Arbs here getting one of them to come out and write a small brief report on the predictable consequences of the saplings growth in its current location might also be of great benefit to you in reasoning with your neighbours....it would also help your position later on too __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

10th March 2008, 04:29 AM	#38 (permalink)
Liz Gettin' motoring Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sydney, N.SW Posts: 16	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line Hi All, I have good news to share...the offending jacaranda has been moved by my neighbour, whom I have thanked & shook hands. Since he took the opportunity to cut back his overhangs at the front of our houses from my property, he knew I meant business. Following this, my handyman followed by instructions & did a cut back of my shrubs to the fence line (leaving no room to have my plants cut & thrown back) which has left a real butchered look from their side - nice & green on mine. This wasn't intentional - just the way the shrub grew. Their row of 6 frangi panis' (along side where the jackie was & as close to my sewer line) have started to appear above the fence line & it won't be long before they branch over...so I suggest the moving of the jackie was a stand in good stead. I am elated Though the wife is still very much put out. There is still friction here, so I don't expect much conversation between us down the line... Thanks to all of you for your voice regarding this concern.

10th March 2008, 04:34 AM	#39 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Re: Jacaranda trees fence line I'm glad it worked out for you Liz, maybe the annoyed party might be placated with some Anzac Rosemary on the 25th Welcome to the Avenues of Honour project __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran