Help stop school tree topping

playfordtree · 27th February 2008, 05:29 AM

OK lets try again shall we?

It's been a couple of weeks so hopefully all the dust has settled.
I realise the topping of trees is a very emotive issue, but this time around can we keep it sensible please.

Here's 2 simple rules,

1 - DO NOT steal this thread and turn it into a fight with other members, otherwise the thread will have to be pulled, like last time.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY!

2 - DO NOT ring me up at home harassing me and abusing other members of this forum.
Just because you have got into an arguement with someone, it's got little all to do with me.

While all this was an annoyance to me, it was quite distressing to my wife.
Unfortunately the thread was pulled before i got a chance to read any of the replies, so thank you to those who responded with help but can you post again please.

Enough said.

This is the work that has been done to some trees at my kids school.

I WILL NOT name the school.
I WILL NOT name the tree company.

Eduacation needs to be done gently, not with a big stick!

In this first photo the tree is "significant", a couple of years ago during construction of the building on the left, there was major trauma caused to the root system.
The tree had to have an Arborist report done, i'm not sure of the full story but i think the construction company got into trouble and had to foot the bill.

After the report was done the school didn't want to pay for the arborist to do any corrective pruning, (penny pinching) they used their usual tree co. instead.
(The red lines show where a major branch was removed and where root damage occured.)

Here is a photo of their attempt at a collar cut.
The Tree co. probably didn't even look at the Arborist report.

Here is another tree (one of many) that has been topped.
Many children walk under this tree every day.

I think what we have here is Incompetance, not Conspiracy.
We need to guide the school and the tree co. in the right direction, and bring them into line with modern tree care practices.

I have drafted a letter to the school, and i would like some extra technical info as to why topping is bad.
I have a copy of the Aust standards but would like some other arboricultural material. (in laymans terms)
Any help would be much apprieciated.

Regards Simon
Playford Tree & Garden.

TreeDimensional · 27th February 2008, 08:08 AM

Playfordtree, here is a copy of a brochure from the ISA, hope it helps!

Why Topping Hurts Trees

Topping is perhaps the most harmful tree pruning practice known. Yet, despite more than 25 years of literature and seminars explaining its harmful effects, topping remains a common practice. This brochure explains why topping is not an acceptable pruning technique and offers better alternatives.

What is Topping?

Topping is the indiscriminate cutting of tree branches to stubs or lateral branches that are not large enough to assume the terminal role. Other names for topping include “heading,” “tipping,” “hat-racking,” and “rounding over.”

The most common reason given for topping is to reduce the size of a tree. Home owners often feel that their trees have become too large for their property. People fear that tall trees may pose a hazard. Topping, however, is not a viable method of height reduction and certainly does not reduce the hazard. In fact, topping will make a tree more hazardous in the long term.

Topping Stresses Trees

Topping often removes 50 to 100 percent of the leaf-bearing crown of a tree. Because leaves are the food factories of a tree, removing them can temporarily starve a tree. The severity of the pruning triggers a sort of survival mechanism. The tree activates latent buds, forcing the rapid growth of multiple shoots below each cut. The tree needs to put out a new crop of leaves as soon as possible. If a tree does not have the stored energy reserves to do so, it will be seriously weakened and may die.

A stressed tree is more vulnerable to insect and disease infestations. Large, open pruning wounds expose the sapwood and heartwood to attacks. The tree may lack sufficient energy to chemically defend the wounds against invasion, and some insects are actually attracted to the chemical signals trees release.

Topping Causes Decay

The preferred location to make a pruning cut is just beyond the branch collar at the branch’s point of attachment. The tree is biologically equipped to close such a wound, provided the tree is healthy enough and the wound is not too large. Cuts made along a limb between lateral branches create stubs with wounds that the tree may not be able to close. The exposed wood tissues begin to decay. Normally, a tree will “wall off,” or compartmentalize, the decaying tissues, but few trees can defend the multiple severe wounds caused by topping. The decay organisms are given a free path to move down through the branches.

Topping Can Lead to Sunburn

Branches within a tree’s crown produce thousands of leaves to absorb sunlight. When the leaves are removed, the remaining branches and trunk are suddenly exposed to high levels of light and heat. The result may be sunburn of the tissues beneath the bark, which can lead to cankers, bark splitting, and death of some branches.

Topping Creates Hazards

The survival mechanism that causes a tree to produce multiple shoots below each topping cut comes at great expense to the tree. These shoots develop from buds near the surface of the old branches. Unlike normal branches that develop in a socket of overlapping wood tissues, these new shoots are anchored only in the outermost layers of the parent branches.

The new shoots grow quickly, as much as 20 feet in one year, in some species. Unfortunately, the shoots are prone to breaking, especially during windy conditions. The irony is that while the goal was to reduce the tree’s height to make it safer, it has been made more hazardous than before.

Topping Makes Trees Ugly

The natural branching structure of a tree is a biological wonder. Trees form a variety of shapes and growth habits, all with the same goal of presenting their leaves to the sun. Topping removes the ends of the branches, often leaving ugly stubs. Topping destroys the natural form of a tree.

Without leaves (up to 6 months of the year in temperate climates), a topped tree appears disfigured and mutilated. With leaves, it is a dense ball of foliage, lacking its simple grace. A tree that has been topped can never fully regain its natural form.

Topping Is Expensive

The cost of topping a tree is not limited to what the perpetrator is paid. If the tree survives, it will require pruning again within a few years. It will either need to be reduced again or storm damage will have to be cleaned up. If the tree dies, it will have to be removed.

Topping is a high-maintenance pruning practice, with some hidden costs. One is the reduction in property value. Healthy, well-maintained trees can add 10 to 20 percent to the value of a property. Disfigured, topped trees are considered an impending expense.

Another possible cost of topped trees is potential liability. Topped trees are prone to breaking and can be hazardous. Because topping is considered an unacceptable pruning practice, any damage caused by branch failure of a topped tree may lead to a finding of negligence in a court of law.

Alternatives to Topping

Sometimes a tree must be reduced in height or spread. Providing clearance for utility lines is an example. There are recommended techniques for doing so. If practical, branches should be removed back to their point of origin. If a branch must be shortened, it should be cut back to a lateral that is large enough to assume the terminal role. A rule of thumb is to cut back to a lateral that is at least one-third the diameter of the limb being removed.

This method of branch reduction helps to preserve the natural form of the tree. However, if large cuts are involved, the tree may not be able to close over and compartmentalize the wounds. Sometimes the best solution is to remove the tree and replace it with a species that is more appropriate for the site.

Hiring an Arborist

Pruning large trees can be dangerous. If pruning involves working above the ground or using power equipment, it is best to hire a professional arborist. An arborist can determine the type of pruning that is necessary to improve the health, appearance, and safety of your trees. A professional arborist can provide the services of a trained crew, with all of the required safety equipment and liability insurance.

When selecting an arborist,

check for membership in professional organizations such as the International Society of Arboriculture (ISA), the Tree Care Industry Association (TCIA), or the American Society of Consulting Arborists (ASCA). Such membership demonstrates a willingness on the part of the arborist to stay up to date on the latest techniques and information.
check for ISA arborist certification. Certified Arborists are experienced professionals who have passed an extensive examination covering all aspects of tree care.
ask for proof of insurance.
ask for a list of references, and don’t hesitate to check them.
avoid using the services of any tree company that
advertises topping as a service provided. Knowledgeable arborists know that topping is harmful to trees and is not an accepted practice.
uses tree climbing spikes to climb trees that are being pruned. Climbing spikes can damage trees, and their use should be limited to trees that are being removed.
This brochure is one in a series published by the International Society of Arboriculture as part of its Consumer Information Program. You may have additional interest in the following titles currently in the series:

Of course your situation is in Australia. There are "like type" credentials for QUALIFIED arborists in your country. I hope this helps!

newguy18 · 27th February 2008, 08:45 AM

Also i'd be kinda worried about the tree that was lionstailed next to the topped tree.

Ekka · 27th February 2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Also i'd be kinda worried about the tree that was lionstailed next to the topped tree.

That's how eucs grow, you could say naturally lions tailed.

newguy18 · 27th February 2008, 12:22 PM

Oh sorry i didn't know that kinda like some of our bigger oaks.

playfordtree · 27th February 2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeDimensional

Playfordtree, here is a copy of a brochure from the ISA, hope it helps!

Why Topping Hurts Trees

Topping is perhaps the most harmful tree pruning practice known. Yet, despite more than 25 years of literature and seminars explaining its harmful effects, topping remains a common practice. This brochure explains why topping is not an acceptable pruning technique and offers better alternatives.

What is Topping?

Topping is the indiscriminate cutting of tree branches to stubs or lateral branches that are not large enough to assume the terminal role. Other names for topping include ?heading,? ?tipping,? ?hat-racking,? and ?rounding over.?

The most common reason given for topping is to reduce the size of a tree. Home owners often feel that their trees have become too large for their property. People fear that tall trees may pose a hazard. Topping, however, is not a viable method of height reduction and certainly does not reduce the hazard. In fact, topping will make a tree more hazardous in the long term.

Topping Stresses Trees

Topping often removes 50 to 100 percent of the leaf-bearing crown of a tree. Because leaves are the food factories of a tree, removing them can temporarily starve a tree. The severity of the pruning triggers a sort of survival mechanism. The tree activates latent buds, forcing the rapid growth of multiple shoots below each cut. The tree needs to put out a new crop of leaves as soon as possible. If a tree does not have the stored energy reserves to do so, it will be seriously weakened and may die.

A stressed tree is more vulnerable to insect and disease infestations. Large, open pruning wounds expose the sapwood and heartwood to attacks. The tree may lack sufficient energy to chemically defend the wounds against invasion, and some insects are actually attracted to the chemical signals trees release.

Topping Causes Decay

The preferred location to make a pruning cut is just beyond the branch collar at the branch?s point of attachment. The tree is biologically equipped to close such a wound, provided the tree is healthy enough and the wound is not too large. Cuts made along a limb between lateral branches create stubs with wounds that the tree may not be able to close. The exposed wood tissues begin to decay. Normally, a tree will ?wall off,? or compartmentalize, the decaying tissues, but few trees can defend the multiple severe wounds caused by topping. The decay organisms are given a free path to move down through the branches.

Topping Can Lead to Sunburn

Branches within a tree?s crown produce thousands of leaves to absorb sunlight. When the leaves are removed, the remaining branches and trunk are suddenly exposed to high levels of light and heat. The result may be sunburn of the tissues beneath the bark, which can lead to cankers, bark splitting, and death of some branches.

Topping Creates Hazards

The survival mechanism that causes a tree to produce multiple shoots below each topping cut comes at great expense to the tree. These shoots develop from buds near the surface of the old branches. Unlike normal branches that develop in a socket of overlapping wood tissues, these new shoots are anchored only in the outermost layers of the parent branches.

The new shoots grow quickly, as much as 20 feet in one year, in some species. Unfortunately, the shoots are prone to breaking, especially during windy conditions. The irony is that while the goal was to reduce the tree?s height to make it safer, it has been made more hazardous than before.

Topping Makes Trees Ugly

The natural branching structure of a tree is a biological wonder. Trees form a variety of shapes and growth habits, all with the same goal of presenting their leaves to the sun. Topping removes the ends of the branches, often leaving ugly stubs. Topping destroys the natural form of a tree.

Without leaves (up to 6 months of the year in temperate climates), a topped tree appears disfigured and mutilated. With leaves, it is a dense ball of foliage, lacking its simple grace. A tree that has been topped can never fully regain its natural form.

Topping Is Expensive

The cost of topping a tree is not limited to what the perpetrator is paid. If the tree survives, it will require pruning again within a few years. It will either need to be reduced again or storm damage will have to be cleaned up. If the tree dies, it will have to be removed.

Topping is a high-maintenance pruning practice, with some hidden costs. One is the reduction in property value. Healthy, well-maintained trees can add 10 to 20 percent to the value of a property. Disfigured, topped trees are considered an impending expense.

Another possible cost of topped trees is potential liability. Topped trees are prone to breaking and can be hazardous. Because topping is considered an unacceptable pruning practice, any damage caused by branch failure of a topped tree may lead to a finding of negligence in a court of law.

Alternatives to Topping

Sometimes a tree must be reduced in height or spread. Providing clearance for utility lines is an example. There are recommended techniques for doing so. If practical, branches should be removed back to their point of origin. If a branch must be shortened, it should be cut back to a lateral that is large enough to assume the terminal role. A rule of thumb is to cut back to a lateral that is at least one-third the diameter of the limb being removed.

This method of branch reduction helps to preserve the natural form of the tree. However, if large cuts are involved, the tree may not be able to close over and compartmentalize the wounds. Sometimes the best solution is to remove the tree and replace it with a species that is more appropriate for the site.

Hiring an Arborist

Pruning large trees can be dangerous. If pruning involves working above the ground or using power equipment, it is best to hire a professional arborist. An arborist can determine the type of pruning that is necessary to improve the health, appearance, and safety of your trees. A professional arborist can provide the services of a trained crew, with all of the required safety equipment and liability insurance.

When selecting an arborist,

check for membership in professional organizations such as the International Society of Arboriculture (ISA), the Tree Care Industry Association (TCIA), or the American Society of Consulting Arborists (ASCA). Such membership demonstrates a willingness on the part of the arborist to stay up to date on the latest techniques and information.
check for ISA arborist certification. Certified Arborists are experienced professionals who have passed an extensive examination covering all aspects of tree care.
ask for proof of insurance.
ask for a list of references, and don?t hesitate to check them.
avoid using the services of any tree company that
advertises topping as a service provided. Knowledgeable arborists know that topping is harmful to trees and is not an accepted practice.
uses tree climbing spikes to climb trees that are being pruned. Climbing spikes can damage trees, and their use should be limited to trees that are being removed.
This brochure is one in a series published by the International Society of Arboriculture as part of its Consumer Information Program. You may have additional interest in the following titles currently in the series:

Of course your situation is in Australia. There are "like type" credentials for QUALIFIED arborists in your country. I hope this helps!

Cheers TreeDimensional

just the sort of stuff i'm looking for.

playfordtree · 27th February 2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

That's how eucs grow, you could say naturally lions tailed.

Makes you think hey Ekka?
We have standards that say "don't leave a lionstail when pruning"
Yet the tree grows like that anyway.
I wonder why it does that?

TreeDimensional · 27th February 2008, 07:08 PM

I know, I know, I know..........................................................................

Cause you got BOTH crazy critters AND crazy plants Down under.

Ekka · 27th February 2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playfordtree

Makes you think hey Ekka?
We have standards that say "don't leave a lionstail when pruning"
Yet the tree grows like that anyway.
I wonder why it does that?

I watch and predict failures a lot these days, over extended leaders with a cabbage patch on the end.

It's all about light, shading out by canopy above so grow further and frankly, no really bad storm, ice and snow the bust them and teach the little grubs a lesson.

So, this in turn is what spurs the topping of eucs. People seeing failures so they beat the failure by topping it and also get a denser crown. This is why many times we thin them over reducing them, but you have to thin them out on the ends and many times a bucket truck is required or a very agile light weight climber, and I'm talking secatures and limb lopper pruning not chainsaw.

Now if you go up to the snow areas and see the snow gums they aint as bad, coz nature sorted them out and they learned, genetics or evolution etc.

playfordtree · 27th February 2008, 07:40 PM

All i need now is for someone to post pictures of a tree that "topps itself" as part of it's natural growing process.

I think my head would explode.

JayD · 27th February 2008, 07:46 PM

Hi Playford and Viewers,
This topic is very sensitive for all concerned,This is happening where your children go to school and you said you wont name the contractor or the school involved...This puts the ball squarely in your hands.Hopefully your children wont be the one's who pay the price...worse case senario.

What I propose to you is bring this thread to the schools attention so they can see first hand the reactions and responces from Arborist's around the world.Why this is bad practice.I would also invite the contractor.

The school could join and become actively invloved in the "Learning process". This way they could learn to be able to specify what they expect from their contractor, Surely their wouldn't be much differance in the price to prune correctly...I mean they had to climb to top these trees...It would have been just as easy to do it right.

So Playford it's up to you from here, You have asked for help to save these Tree's so lets do something about this.
JayD

playfordtree · 27th February 2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I watch and predict failures a lot these days, over extended leaders with a cabbage patch on the end.

It's all about light, shading out by canopy above so grow further and frankly, no really bad storm, ice and snow the bust them and teach the little grubs a lesson.

So, this in turn is what spurs the topping of eucs. People seeing failures so they beat the failure by topping it and also get a denser crown. This is why many times we thin them over reducing them, but you have to thin them out on the ends and many times a bucket truck is required or a very agile light weight climber, and I'm talking secatures and limb lopper pruning not chainsaw.

Now if you go up to the snow areas and see the snow gums they aint as bad, coz nature sorted them out and they learned, genetics or evolution etc.

Thats a good point about genetics.
The tall skinny tree that newguy was talking about obviously doesn't have to compete for light.
So why did it grow so tall?
(i don't know if it was planted or is remenant bushland)

If it was planted-
Was it maybe genetically predisposed to grow tall, like it's ancestors did?,
regardless of it's environmental influences.

If it is remenant bushland-
This area has been developed for quite some time now, so competing trees would have been removed awhile ago.
As a sapling if it started to react to competition by growing tall and skinny,
would it still continue with this growth pattern forever?
Even if the competition has been removed.

Ekka · 27th February 2008, 08:14 PM

Playford, I shot a video once of a euc in the park that already had some damage, then I showed what would come, sure did, the branches also busted and are now pruned right back and another tree removed for stem failure.

Happens all the time, that's why old school topping of eucs was done.

Take a look around, many big tall trees have their heads broken off, many long limbs broken off, get those eyes tuned in and watch ... walk through some bush and parks etc and see. There was some method in the madness, short stout trees are stronger trees however the opportunity to do that is through formative pruning of juvenile and semi mature trees before they become huge.

Eucs dont mind being broken or topped, they epicormic fast and within 3 to 5 years a reasonable crown is there. So in nature they can handle it, risk vs return for the tree ...

... "I will grow to be king of this jungle and tower above my companions and if the wind breaks me I'll be back faster just like Gov Arny and then have the potential to grow even taller with a few spares in my back pocket!" That's about how they think in out terms.

Not done often here is also cabling, frankly eucs are prime candidates for it yet there seems to be MASSIVE AVERSION to cabling here, borne out of fear of litigation. Find me one case though, all hype and it would be a viable alternative. Eucs are very good compartmentalizers, cabling also doubles as fall arrest. Not sure how you'd deal with the main central leader in apically dominant species like regnans and grandis, cant really reduce it and even when juvenile dont top it.

I think we are way behind the 8 ball here and the good ole tree loppers and their BS is heard too often. When you have an industry full of uneducated what do you expect, no qualifications required, no regulation, no licence so the myths are still heard often and reinforce customers old hat ideas.

If the trees are not protected then there is really little anyone can do. It would be a civil matter between the two parties. If the school ordered the topping and the tree company contested it but did it anyway then there's no chance for the school. Bit different if the school asked for pruning and that's what got done, then they have a very strong case as the trees weren't pruned to AS4373.

27th February 2008, 08:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Help stop school tree topping Playfordtree, here is a copy of a brochure from the ISA, hope it helps! Why Topping Hurts Trees Topping is perhaps the most harmful tree pruning practice known. Yet, despite more than 25 years of literature and seminars explaining its harmful effects, topping remains a common practice. This brochure explains why topping is not an acceptable pruning technique and offers better alternatives. What is Topping? Topping is the indiscriminate cutting of tree branches to stubs or lateral branches that are not large enough to assume the terminal role. Other names for topping include “heading,” “tipping,” “hat-racking,” and “rounding over.” The most common reason given for topping is to reduce the size of a tree. Home owners often feel that their trees have become too large for their property. People fear that tall trees may pose a hazard. Topping, however, is not a viable method of height reduction and certainly does not reduce the hazard. In fact, topping will make a tree more hazardous in the long term. Topping Stresses Trees Topping often removes 50 to 100 percent of the leaf-bearing crown of a tree. Because leaves are the food factories of a tree, removing them can temporarily starve a tree. The severity of the pruning triggers a sort of survival mechanism. The tree activates latent buds, forcing the rapid growth of multiple shoots below each cut. The tree needs to put out a new crop of leaves as soon as possible. If a tree does not have the stored energy reserves to do so, it will be seriously weakened and may die. A stressed tree is more vulnerable to insect and disease infestations. Large, open pruning wounds expose the sapwood and heartwood to attacks. The tree may lack sufficient energy to chemically defend the wounds against invasion, and some insects are actually attracted to the chemical signals trees release. Topping Causes Decay The preferred location to make a pruning cut is just beyond the branch collar at the branch’s point of attachment. The tree is biologically equipped to close such a wound, provided the tree is healthy enough and the wound is not too large. Cuts made along a limb between lateral branches create stubs with wounds that the tree may not be able to close. The exposed wood tissues begin to decay. Normally, a tree will “wall off,” or compartmentalize, the decaying tissues, but few trees can defend the multiple severe wounds caused by topping. The decay organisms are given a free path to move down through the branches. Topping Can Lead to Sunburn Branches within a tree’s crown produce thousands of leaves to absorb sunlight. When the leaves are removed, the remaining branches and trunk are suddenly exposed to high levels of light and heat. The result may be sunburn of the tissues beneath the bark, which can lead to cankers, bark splitting, and death of some branches. Topping Creates Hazards The survival mechanism that causes a tree to produce multiple shoots below each topping cut comes at great expense to the tree. These shoots develop from buds near the surface of the old branches. Unlike normal branches that develop in a socket of overlapping wood tissues, these new shoots are anchored only in the outermost layers of the parent branches. The new shoots grow quickly, as much as 20 feet in one year, in some species. Unfortunately, the shoots are prone to breaking, especially during windy conditions. The irony is that while the goal was to reduce the tree’s height to make it safer, it has been made more hazardous than before. Topping Makes Trees Ugly The natural branching structure of a tree is a biological wonder. Trees form a variety of shapes and growth habits, all with the same goal of presenting their leaves to the sun. Topping removes the ends of the branches, often leaving ugly stubs. Topping destroys the natural form of a tree. Without leaves (up to 6 months of the year in temperate climates), a topped tree appears disfigured and mutilated. With leaves, it is a dense ball of foliage, lacking its simple grace. A tree that has been topped can never fully regain its natural form. Topping Is Expensive The cost of topping a tree is not limited to what the perpetrator is paid. If the tree survives, it will require pruning again within a few years. It will either need to be reduced again or storm damage will have to be cleaned up. If the tree dies, it will have to be removed. Topping is a high-maintenance pruning practice, with some hidden costs. One is the reduction in property value. Healthy, well-maintained trees can add 10 to 20 percent to the value of a property. Disfigured, topped trees are considered an impending expense. Another possible cost of topped trees is potential liability. Topped trees are prone to breaking and can be hazardous. Because topping is considered an unacceptable pruning practice, any damage caused by branch failure of a topped tree may lead to a finding of negligence in a court of law. Alternatives to Topping Sometimes a tree must be reduced in height or spread. Providing clearance for utility lines is an example. There are recommended techniques for doing so. If practical, branches should be removed back to their point of origin. If a branch must be shortened, it should be cut back to a lateral that is large enough to assume the terminal role. A rule of thumb is to cut back to a lateral that is at least one-third the diameter of the limb being removed. This method of branch reduction helps to preserve the natural form of the tree. However, if large cuts are involved, the tree may not be able to close over and compartmentalize the wounds. Sometimes the best solution is to remove the tree and replace it with a species that is more appropriate for the site. Hiring an Arborist Pruning large trees can be dangerous. If pruning involves working above the ground or using power equipment, it is best to hire a professional arborist. An arborist can determine the type of pruning that is necessary to improve the health, appearance, and safety of your trees. A professional arborist can provide the services of a trained crew, with all of the required safety equipment and liability insurance. When selecting an arborist, check for membership in professional organizations such as the International Society of Arboriculture (ISA), the Tree Care Industry Association (TCIA), or the American Society of Consulting Arborists (ASCA). Such membership demonstrates a willingness on the part of the arborist to stay up to date on the latest techniques and information. check for ISA arborist certification. Certified Arborists are experienced professionals who have passed an extensive examination covering all aspects of tree care. ask for proof of insurance. ask for a list of references, and don’t hesitate to check them. avoid using the services of any tree company that advertises topping as a service provided. Knowledgeable arborists know that topping is harmful to trees and is not an accepted practice. uses tree climbing spikes to climb trees that are being pruned. Climbing spikes can damage trees, and their use should be limited to trees that are being removed. This brochure is one in a series published by the International Society of Arboriculture as part of its Consumer Information Program. You may have additional interest in the following titles currently in the series: Of course your situation is in Australia. There are "like type" credentials for QUALIFIED arborists in your country. I hope this helps! __________________ West Central Saskatchewan ISA Certified Arborist Last edited by TreeDimensional : 27th February 2008 at 08:11 AM. Reason: Add text

27th February 2008, 08:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,198	Re: Help stop school tree topping Also i'd be kinda worried about the tree that was lionstailed next to the topped tree. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th February 2008, 12:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,198	Re: Help stop school tree topping Oh sorry i didn't know that kinda like some of our bigger oaks. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th February 2008, 07:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
TreeDimensional Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 381	Re: Help stop school tree topping I know, I know, I know.......................................................................... Cause you got BOTH crazy critters AND crazy plants Down under. __________________ West Central Saskatchewan ISA Certified Arborist

27th February 2008, 07:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
playfordtree Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Re: Help stop school tree topping All i need now is for someone to post pictures of a tree that "topps itself" as part of it's natural growing process. I think my head would explode. __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

27th February 2008, 07:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
JayD Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 821	Re: Help stop school tree topping Hi Playford and Viewers, This topic is very sensitive for all concerned,This is happening where your children go to school and you said you wont name the contractor or the school involved...This puts the ball squarely in your hands.Hopefully your children wont be the one's who pay the price...worse case senario. What I propose to you is bring this thread to the schools attention so they can see first hand the reactions and responces from Arborist's around the world.Why this is bad practice.I would also invite the contractor. The school could join and become actively invloved in the "Learning process". This way they could learn to be able to specify what they expect from their contractor, Surely their wouldn't be much differance in the price to prune correctly...I mean they had to climb to top these trees...It would have been just as easy to do it right. So Playford it's up to you from here, You have asked for help to save these Tree's so lets do something about this. JayD __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

27th February 2008, 08:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Re: Help stop school tree topping Playford, I shot a video once of a euc in the park that already had some damage, then I showed what would come, sure did, the branches also busted and are now pruned right back and another tree removed for stem failure. Happens all the time, that's why old school topping of eucs was done. Take a look around, many big tall trees have their heads broken off, many long limbs broken off, get those eyes tuned in and watch ... walk through some bush and parks etc and see. There was some method in the madness, short stout trees are stronger trees however the opportunity to do that is through formative pruning of juvenile and semi mature trees before they become huge. Eucs dont mind being broken or topped, they epicormic fast and within 3 to 5 years a reasonable crown is there. So in nature they can handle it, risk vs return for the tree ... ... "I will grow to be king of this jungle and tower above my companions and if the wind breaks me I'll be back faster just like Gov Arny and then have the potential to grow even taller with a few spares in my back pocket!" That's about how they think in out terms. Not done often here is also cabling, frankly eucs are prime candidates for it yet there seems to be MASSIVE AVERSION to cabling here, borne out of fear of litigation. Find me one case though, all hype and it would be a viable alternative. Eucs are very good compartmentalizers, cabling also doubles as fall arrest. Not sure how you'd deal with the main central leader in apically dominant species like regnans and grandis, cant really reduce it and even when juvenile dont top it. I think we are way behind the 8 ball here and the good ole tree loppers and their BS is heard too often. When you have an industry full of uneducated what do you expect, no qualifications required, no regulation, no licence so the myths are still heard often and reinforce customers old hat ideas. If the trees are not protected then there is really little anyone can do. It would be a civil matter between the two parties. If the school ordered the topping and the tree company contested it but did it anyway then there's no chance for the school. Bit different if the school asked for pruning and that's what got done, then they have a very strong case as the trees weren't pruned to AS4373. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors