Help me pick a tree please!

grilling24x7

Hi,
I have a deck in my back yard which has really intense sun sets to the west. It isn't so bad when the sun is above us in the afternoon b/c of umbrellas but when the sun sets it is really really bright making our deck not usable between the 530-7pm window.

Standing on my deck, I measured that I need shade at approximately 13-15 feet off the ground (deck is elevated a bit) to provide shade during this period.

Attached are two pictures of the location that I would like to put a shade tree. Do you have any suggestions? I would like shade by next year so I am fine with buying a 10-12 foot tree this year if that's possible. I do have two dogs so I would prefer no falling nuts or things that two crazy dogs would go crazy with.

I've been looking at red maple and cleveland pear trees online but I really don't know what I'm doing.





Any advice on a good shade tree for an area this size?

Thanks!

John

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TreeCo

Liriodendron tulipifera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liriodendron tulipifera

Grows fast, straight and tall. Native tree in your area. It may take a few years for you to get good shade. I'd plant about ten feet away from your deck. Plant at least eight or ten and thin them out. The area could easily hold four or five mature trees.

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Grow more vegetables!

grilling24x7

Thanks for the reply. Just to be clear, I am referring to the smaller area right next to the deck, not the large drainage pond that I live next to (shown in one of the pics). 8 or 10 of them? wow! I was thinking just one. If you look at the top picture, where the small house is and the little blue above ground pool is, that's where the sun sets and kills us. 3 or 4 foot wide foliage would be enough, so I was going to plant just one tree so it grows right up and blocks the house and blue pool, and also the sun of course.

Can you comment on the sturdiness of the tulip poplar? We do get some nasty thunderstorms and my father warned me that poplars break easy.
Thanks!

John

grilling24x7

Another question about the tulip tree...

I read this from Wiki:

"It can grow to more than 50 m (165 feet) in virgin cove forests of the Appalachian Mountains, often with no limbs until it reaches 25-30 m (80-100 feet) in height...."

I have never pruned a tree but I assume if this tree is pruned, it wouldn't get this tall, correct? having no limbs until it reaches 25-30 m would defeat the purpose of shade at 13-15 ft.

Thanks... I'm still very open to other suggestions.

John

pcarborist

Tulip poplars aren't poplars. Grilling, when someone asks me "what tree to plant?", the first question I ask is "conifer or deciduous?"

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parkcityarborist

grilling24x7

I'd like deciduous.

pcarborist

Using the process of deductive reasoning. The next questions you need to ask yourself are: what's the maximum height of the tree you desire? Are there utilities overhead? What is the planting site like? What hardiness zone are you in? What's your soil texture? What's the pH? What's the drainage like? How many hrs of sunlight does the site receive in a day? Hope that helps.

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parkcityarborist

treevet

If you are looking for relatively fast growing shade and a strong wooded tree near a building and deck, my choice would be "Valley Forge" Elm. It is an American elm cultivar, (not a Siberian, or Oriental...ugh) and therefore has the big leaves and the spread architectural habit with semi cascading form.

It is the fastest grower of the non disaster genus of trees that are fast. The jury is still out (or maybe delayed) on its DED resistance, however I have planted a lot of them commercially including in my own yard and have not lost one yet in a number of years..

If they get too big, prune them, if they get way too big way down the road, remove and start over again. Can't ask for more than that. No litter to antagonize the dogs.

grilling24x7

Let me try to answer your questions the best I can:

Q: what's the maximum height of the tree you desire?
A: My house is about 30-35 feet tall (estimating) so I would like to have it smaller than that. But I wouldn't really care if it was 30-40 feet in 30 years. I just want it to be in the 15 foot range within the next 2 or so years.

Q: Are there utilities overhead?
A: No

Q: What is the planting site like?
A: Right now there is grass (as shown in the picture). It is sloped a little bit - I notice when I use the sprinkler and when it rains the water accumulates (grass stays sopping wet a bit longer than the rest of the lawn) about 20 feet south of the area that I want to plant the tree.

Q: What hardiness zone are you in?
A: I think I googled this once and I came up with 7. I'm in MD.

Q: What's your soil texture?
A: I'm guessing a clay? My home is 2 years old. Before we moved in the lot was wooded with lots of trees and brush. The whole area was bulldozed for the house to be built. Not sure if that means anything.

Q: What's the pH?
A: I haven't bought a soil test kit - do you think that I should before I select a tree?

Q: What's the drainage like?
A: Drainage is discussed in response above.

Q: How many hrs of sunlight does the site receive in a day?
A: This spot receives about 8-10 hours of sunlight each day. Only in the early morning does the house block the sun. The rest of the day the tree will get sun.

John

grilling24x7

Thanks - I'll google Valley Forge Elm and see what I can find.

treevet

The large nut/seed exclusion will limit you significantly along with other qualifications. Good luck.

Tuliptrees (a type of Magnolia) will get very large, however will start out much slower than A. Elm.

From the Landscape Architects Reference Manual, projected growth for A. elm in 10 years will be approx. 35 feet.

For Tuliptree it will be approx. 18 feet.

Another prolific grower, not storm damage prone would be a Sycamore cultivar we use that is disease and drought resistant. This would also come in the 35 foot range in 10 years however the seed balls would preclude it from your choices. Great shade tree tho and real pretty bark.

pcarborist

Here some possibilities:
paperbark maple, yellowwood, redbud, katsura, saucer magnolia, Maackia.

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parkcityarborist

grilling24x7

As of now I am favoring the A. Elm. I think this is the tree that I have had my eye on for some time now I just never knew what it was called.

One question: You say 35 feet in 10 years and I see pictures online of very large mature trees. I assume that in 10-20 years the canopy of these trees will be above the area that I need shade? To rephrase that - I need shade at about 15 feet off the ground. In 20 or so years will the trunk be the only thing that can block sun at 15 feet off the ground? If the canopy is 20-30 feet in the air it may be above my late evening blinding sunsets. I see some pictures online that look like they will work, but then I see some HUGE trees where the canopy is way too high for my sunset blocking needs.

treevet

They have been pruned high. This a large spreading canopy and you can leave the branch level low.

Not to offend you, some people think if you hung your hat on a bottom branch and left it there for 20 years, then your hat would be way up in the air. The truth of the matter is that your hat would be in the same exact place.

treevet

These are all very low canopied trees PC (not familiar with Maackia tho) and will max out in the 20 foot range or under that (maybe that is what he wants tho). Katsura is almost impossible to get established around here. I have tried many times. Water stress.

grilling24x7

I stumbled across this good picture of an american elm and I want to ask a general question about trees using this picture.

I allude to this above and there is a good example of hanging a hat above but I'm still confused.

I marked this tree picture with an "X". Let's say this is the area that I am relying on to block the sun (a bright sunset right on the horizen). Will this be pure trunk in 20 years? Or can pruning change this? I would need my tree to maintain leaves at this level to block most of the sun. My example is a bit dramatic b/c my X is drawn at maybe 5-8 feet - in reality I am relying on would be about 15 feet.



I admit I know nothing about trees and I'm not getting good answers from local landscape places. Sorry to beat this to the ground but I don't want to plant a tree and then be really annoyed in 10 years when I get the bright sun again in my face b/c the tree has grown up.

John

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treevet

John, I tried to answer in reply to your pm but, the answer is where the x is there will likely always be foliage unless it is pruned off, or it is shaded out or the tree runs into health issues.

The tree grows another tree entirely over itself. It does not push the canopy upwards as some think hence my example of the hat. It gets taller by growth from the tips of the branches and top in layman's terms.

grilling24x7

Thanks for that response. That makes sense.

John