Help I'm being taken over| Preventing sucker growth

jjohnson4408

I have what I belive is a scrub oak . The tree is in texas and at this rate I may have to move elsewhere. (not room for all of us) This started a couple of years ago with just a few shoots, and as you can see it's pretty much taken over our front yard including the flower bed. As you can this winter (ha ha) I tried to eradicate it, but only managed to kill everything else. I belive this invasion may be coming from the roots, but the leaves look different ? Anyone out there have and ideas, at this point the wife is threating to cut it down.DSC00498.JPG

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Ekka

First of all, lay off the poison!

Second of all, start digging some of those little guys up, see if they are suckers to the main tree or self seeded.

If they are suckers you may kill the big tree by poisoning.

If they're self seeded, still have to be careful coz the same species roots can graft, but might not happen easily when so small.

We have similar happen here with camphor laurels and chinese elm (celtis chinensis not ulma).

I cant help anymore, I only know of killing the lot other than painstakingly digging them all out. Species here that do that which are not indigenous are called weeds and open slather eradication.

Species that are indigenous seldom do that here.

One place I rented here had a chinese elm out the front, the lawn for a good 10' all round it was just a mat of suckers, I just mowed them like grass. As a tree guy the only solution I could think of was the big chop and stump grind ... but it wasn't my place.

I think there may be some "sucker poison" on the market over there, maybe others can chime in.

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jjohnson4408

Thanks for your help, I'll try locating this "sucker poison". Is this specific for the oak or is this a generic thing ?

masterarbor

yes we have a sucker retardant. people use it a lot to combat the suckers that grow at the base of crab apples. i haven't used it, but a customer of mine said that it worked "pretty well". look for it at a professional garden center. good luck, let us know how it turns out.

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Ekka

Found it

Product is called Sucker Stopper uses NAA

FAQS about Sucker Stopper RTU, Monterey Lawn and Garden

Amazon.com: SS425 Sucker Stopper RTU (Ready-to-Use): Home Improvement

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masterarbor

good job ekka, thanks

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Kevin Masters Certified Arborist
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Treelore

I am familiar with some pretty voracious ground covers like Vinca minor and pachysandra that once planted are pretty hard to stop growing. These from the photos don't look like Oak shoots nor can I identify them though. I have never heard of prolific oak suckering from roots (not to say it doesn't happen) I might be talking to someone local to have a positive ID on the plants before applying anything liberal over the ground area. Are you mowing over the area?? just wondering if the shoots were much higher at a time or they are merely a 3-4 inch covering spreading excessively?

tip_top

would covering them with a tarp or something kill them?

newguy18

same thing here lots of suckers,usually not of the same root system[most common culprits are water oak,live oak,sand live oak,and turkey oak] drop some form of nut not sure if i would call them acorns and then the fun begins,by that time next season your surronded by sucker growth.I've dug down and found one once that was coming out of the "acorn" once.I usually pull them up and that usually kills them but it has to be done annually.

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Therrin

That happens frequently around here. The oaks can be pretty bad about it. I was under the impression that vigorous suckers can be somewhat common where there is alot of hack work being done. Like an oak's survival reaction from having too much of it's canopy removed, as it struggles to ammend the problem?

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TreeSpecialist

First of all, you have either a Quercus virginiana or Quercus fusiformis

#2 They're not suckers but root sprouts.

Live oaks are clonal species which propagate primarily by root sprouts. Each sprout is a clone of the original tree (happens as much as 98% of the time.)

Roots can travel 2 to 3 time the height of the canopy (more in shallow soils) away from the tree before putting up a sprout.

I write a column for my ISA Chapter newsletter and wrote about this recently. (See attachment.)


The sprouts are coming up because the tree is too deep. To eliminate the sprouts, you have to lower the grade, trim the spouts off the roots, and leave a strong root collar and flare exposed. Best done with an AirSpade® but could be done by hand if you're careful.

Many folks forego the expense and learn to accept the thousands of sprouts as a different kind of ground cover. You can mow them or scalp them close to grade - do so in the heat of summer or dead of winter to prevent possible oak wilt infections.

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Personal Observations 101007.pdf (58.5 KB, 11 views)

TreeSpecialist

Here's a previous article I wrote about oaks and root sprouts complete with pictures......

See attachment:

TreeSpecialist

Attachment didn't work.......


here's the text..........

Personal Observations
by Pat Wentworth

It is not “hard science” or “pure research,” just things I have noticed mostly from observation and repetition………

Everyone has seen this before (if you haven't it's because you don't work on live oaks.) The live oak in the client's yard has hundreds if not thousands of root sprouts coming up all round the base of the tree. Sometimes they spread out from the tree to a radius of 12 feet or more. I've seen them so thick that they looked like an intentionally planted ground cover. The one thing you will always see with this condition is that the trunk of the tree comes out of the ground with very little flare at the base.


Base of live oak (Quercus virginiana)

Live oaks, like all trees, should have their trunk collar (the portion of the trunk that flares dramatically at grade) exposed. When it isn't, the tree will put out numerous adventitious roots that will quickly become root sprouts. Clients will have put too much mulch against the tree or around the base of the tree and root sprouts will occur. Or they will be raising the soil a little to allow the grass to grow just that much closer to the tree and root sprouts will occur. Or they will bury those exposed roots that they keep hitting with the lawn mower and root spouts are the result. Sometimes this condition is caused by weed blocking fabrics as well.

The cure for this problem is often more than that client is wiling to spend. The best way to approach the issue is to use an Airspade® to uncover the root collar.


Airspade® used to uncover root mat/ girdling roots

When this is done well, a twisted tangled mat of roots will be found just below the surface. Small roots can be carefully snipped off back down to the large root flares or back to the main trunk. Hand tools (hatchets, pruning shears, loppers) are the quickest way to remove them.


Removal of root mat and girdling roots with hand tools

Once cleared of the root mat, the root flares should be left exposed and above grade. The area can be left uncovered or covered with a light dusting (1/2 inch or less) of mulch.

Root mat / root-collar excavations are a hard sell because they’re tedious, time consuming, and therefore can be expensive. The real trick comes in figuring out how to bid the job before beginning. Any time you're excavating roots, you never know what you're going to run into or how long it will actually take.

For years, we've been told to plant trees at the same level they come in the container. This assumes that they were grown at the correct level from day one. A shallow moat is placed around the newly planted tree and a layer of mulch is added to keep the soil moist. What invariably happens is that too much mulch is used and the shallow moat collapses in on the tree burying it too deep.

We might be better off if we change planting specifications to plant trees 2 inches higher than the surrounding soil. By the time the well collapses, too much mulch is used, and the tree settles in the hole somewhat, it may wind up at the correct level instead of being buried 3 to 4 inches too deep. It would prevent a lot of girdling roots.

TreeDimensional

TreeSpecialist, statistically what are your observations on WHO is responsible for planting new trees too deep? I would bet that (in order of occurrence) homeowners, landscape contractors, and finally in-experienced arborists are to blame.

Have you see any correlation between size of tree at planting to incidence of sucker development?

We don't see this issue here much, as the trees that do well here are hardy for a 2b climate. The other issue here is the fact that we have a heavy clay soil, and frequently find that roots are very close to (or Above) grade. This of course could be explained by the nature of the soil (compaction), and the relationship of the root/oxygen requirements.

Another issue that you bring up is the task, and salesmanship of root flare excavation. As you stated Oaks don't like their feet too wet, this would indicate to me the importance of educating the tree owner that they are planting a tree and NOT transplanting a carrot. The issue here is that leaving a depression at the base of the tree might be counter-productive, and the best overall approach is to change the grade of the yard to allow for proper drainage. I am always frustrated when I have to come in and weigh the options for the client. Fortunately, I have developed an approach of informing the client of ALL options, and suggesting that they don't spend good money on BAD projects.

Sorry for the long winded stuff, the point is, do it right the first time, and IF you don't know what your doing, seek people who are experienced in this field. A caveat to this of course is that with the Internet, EVERYONE is an expert!

TreeSpecialist

You're right to say that homeowners, landscapers, then well meaning (so-called) arborists in that order, plant trees wrong. All trees (IMO) should be planted 2 inches high.

Most trees settle.

I would rather look across a lawn and see root flares from 100 feet away than see a "telephone pole" shaped trunk growing in a lush lawn.

Selling root collar excavation (RCX) is a hard sell. You're getting someone to believe what you know is likely to be found but can't be seen at the time of the sale.

I've lost a lot of money on hand dug RCX's cause you never know what you're going to find or how long it will take. At least with an air spade, it's much quicker with little to no damage to the part of the tree you're trying to save.

Too deep = adventious roots by the thousands!

Down here in Zone 8, we have a problem with container grown trees - girdling roots! When the trunk reaches the size of the container it came in, the leaves start getting smaller and smaller as the roots strangle the tree.

Planting them too deep contributes to the problem as well.

Our nursery men also insist upon pinching the tops to make cute little lollipop trees to sell with 7 to 15 co-dominant stems originating from a single point on the trunk. Included bark? you bet!

When I was younger and more emotional, these things bothered me. I sat as chairman on a number of public boards and commissions and non-profit corporations to teach the public and other arborists the errors of their ways.

Today, I waste less heart beats and simply realize that it just means more money for me. With every storm, I have more clients to educate, one at a time, on the correct way to prune, plant, or cable and why XYZ tree company screwed up their tree and set it up for failure.

Attached are a few pictures of a typical Quercus virginiana (live oak) root collar exam.

newguy18

I'm no expert but theres no pics.

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