Fungal DNA Sampling

treeseer

The relatively small size of the bits we use ensures rapid healing of the holes," says the website at Forest Pathology and Mycology Laboratory - Research

3/16" holes at the flare, 4 recommended.

How do these holes rapidly heal?

Sean Freeman

I'm guessing who ever typed up the page is not an Arborist...interesting the comment about paper containers I'll change the way I store such samples before they go to DPI in future..(not that I have had that many jobs requiring DNA analysis, only two in 4yrs! and both ended up not pursuing the lab work)

treeseer

that line did not get into the Dec AN article; reviewed/edited out i guess.

Eric Frei

That sounds like a real nice drill bit to get your hands on, cant get them that long and fluted here.

Wouldn't these guys be better off with a core sample then?

Oh yeah, rapid healing ... must be a fact coz a university wrote it eh?

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treeseer

Yeah, coincidence is that place is 1 hr south of me; I may stop in and inspect their wares tho I don't typically drill except to install cable.Sure, or maybe just plunge cuts with the chainsaw to extract not just little cylinders but big cubes of wood to assess! O wait, the tree is alive; so easy to forget that detail when there is material to sample and data to collect!Many might have that impression, but in this case the org apparently deleted the U's error. It's in the December Arborist News.

OutofMytree

You have saved me starting a new thread Guy.

I was recommended a product by a professor with a whole bunch of letters after his name at the state biosciences university. It is a range of insertable "bullets" containing various nutrients which are pushed into a tree after you drill a pilot hole. The holes are 10mm in diameter and are placed at intervals of 100mm to 150mm around the trunk at a height under 1 metre. My most obvious concern is that I may be creating more of a problem than I am solving in treating Seridium canker using this method.

The Seridium problem in Perth is at near epidemic proportions and untreated shows every sign of wiping out entire suburbs of cypress and even some junipers. I booked in a removal job for a leyland cypress yesterday and in just that one cul-de-sac street with less than 20 houses we counted 10 trees clearly infected and another 10 probables. To date I have discovered no SURE control method either online or onsite so I am trialling a couple of simple techniques on larger cypress (over 8 metres and 500kg mass).

Anyway, your comments and thoughts on the application of these "bullets" which require holes 10mm in diameter and 32 mm deep spaced 100-150mm apart would be appreciated.

Eric Frei

Need to know what the product is so we know what the content is.

If it is just nutrients then why would stem application be better over soil or foliar?

Way I see it, more wounds when a fungi is around is not a good thing, plus compartmentalization will prevent the benefits if it's concept was slow release over time.

What was he a professor in?

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treeseer

My first comment is what are your alternatives--I'm experimenting with phosphite and paclobutrazol.

If seiridium stays in the outer sapwood then maybe the drilling is not as bad as with heartrot present. like eric i'm curious about what would be in these bullets--seiridium on leylands here too is near epidemic so any experimentation seems better than nothing.

OutofMytree

This is the fella who recommended the retailer of the "bullets" to me.

Associate Professor Giles Hardy
Director State Centre of Excellence for Climate Change, Woodland and Forest Health.

Director of Centre for Phytophthora Science and Management (CPSM)
School of Biological Sciences and Biotechnology
Faculty of Sustainability, Environmental and Life Sciences, Murdoch University,
Murdoch
Western Australia, 6150

Actually I should be more specific. I was corresponding with Giles about various tree diseases in and around Perth and he passed my details onto another fella who runs an arbor supply business and distributes the product.
This a copy of his 1st email.




Hello John,



Giles has forwarded your enquiry onto me. I work with Giles at Murdoch.



We have noticed a real increase in the incidence of Seiridium canker in conifers across Perth over the past couple of years. Most likely due to increase in water stress driving the susceptibility to the pathogen. I am familiar with the range of treatments that have been suggested in the past....some say they work, some don’t. Phosphite is widely recommended but a number of people I work closely with (pathologists and arboriculturists) say it does not work.



We have started testing a couple of treatments in the hope that we can save many of the conifers from the chipper.



The most important first step is to prune out the diseased tissue well in front of the advancing lesion. Ideally I would recommend then treating the trees with a suitable fungicide....however, there is nothing on-label that we know works. So, the other option is to try treating the trees with either PHOSCAP implants or MEDICAP MD implants and ensuring that the trees are receiving enough water. I have attached some more info on the implants.



Interesting about the Casuarinas...I can’t really comment without seeing the trees but any of the factors you have mentioned are all possibilities.



Hope this helps!



Kind regards, Paul.



Anyway, as you can see, this is an experiment rather than a statement of performance. The products can be seen online just by googling the names. As we find more volunteers for this treatment the tree owners are being told to apply extra water for three months and the trees are being lightly pruned to remove any obviously infected branches. This is a compilation of methods I have gleaned from a variety of sources and aimed more at strengthening the tree rather than killing the fungus(?).

Whilst we are on the subject, without laboratory testing it is difficult to PRECISELY identify the exact nature or type of a "dieback" type of infection for untrained people like myself. Knowing a little about fungii in grasses I am confident that any chemical fungicide has a limited use and long term serves to isolate those resistant fungii eventually producing "immune" fungii. Whem treating fungus in turf only a fraction of the treatment is with a fungicide the rest is pruning and correct watering. I am keen to see if the same results can be acheived in trees.

Eric I am unsure as to the best method of applying nutrients but after years of handling multiple hazardous chemicals I came to the PERSONAL conclusion that I was no longer prepared to be a guinea pig for Bayer and Monsanto. We really dont understand the risks associated with long term chemical exposure especially when handling multiple types in liquid form. My two objections to using root applied or foliar chemicals were personal safety and the need for expert training of the worker applying them. The "bullets" address both those concerns but of course come with some question marks which I raise here for public comment.

One point perhaps worth mentioning is the relatively small wound made. At 10mm dia once every 150mm it is interfering with about 7% of the vertical flow in the tree which SOUNDS like a reasonable number. I simply have not the expertise to say whether it represents a real problem or not, but I can say that a client was asking whether the job had actually been done because he couldnt find any holes. It took me a couple of minutes too.

More thoughts and feedback please.

Eric Frei

I see what they're trying to do.

However they're treating the tree not the environment.

The trees needs stem from soil and root interaction, that is not being addressed, other than been told to adequately water.

What if the pH is out, sure stem bullets can mean nutrient take up but you're creating a life support system. Is anyone doing soil tests? Is there a common nutrient deficiency? For instance maybe the soils are missing iron or magnesium etc. This page on my site has pleanty of info.

We are all about trees - fertilizing

Go back to basics, soil health, beneficial fungi, mulch, water etc.

Trichoderma, silica, seasol, soil wetting agent, blood/bone and mulch with adequate water will create a healthy soil environment. Beneficial fungi will attach to the trees root system and create a larger surface feeding area. This will extrapolate the root systems resources, keep bad fungi away. The silica helps build stronger plant cells.

This will also prevent a flourish of new growth that may not be supported by available resources. Trees over fertilized will compromise defence to growth, to keep a tree in slight stress or equilibrium without flooding with artificial nutrients is wiser management. It also establishes the ground work for the tree to care for itself.

It is now known that trees can control their resources, if in fact the resources are there. They do it in a round about way by controlling their exudate's to attract particular microbes, bacteria and fungi which provide what they need, usually by excrement. That whole process has been denied with these bullets, perhaps that's because society craves a quick fix and pill for everything.

In my experience conifers, casuarinas have shallow root systems. More susceptible to drought stress.

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OutofMytree

Good point regarding the soil treatment Eric. Your webpage gave me some ideas and required a personal headslap. I have not included mulching as part of the regimen. DOH!

One of the 1st questions tree owners ask is how much. Any solution needs to be cost effective or they will either ignore the problem or remove the tree. How do you go about soil testing at little or no cost? Are the pH testers available on the shelf up to scratch? If so do you have any kits you use and recommend. If pH testing is feasible for EVERY job site, is there any other soil test which could or should be done to establish the trees nutritional needs?

It will be interesting to see whether this sort of regimen is indeed a "bandaid" solution or whether supporting a tree when it is under stress allows it to develop further root and foliage growth sufficient to meeting future needs.

It is my personal experience that most tree owners that plant Cypress do so because they have the mistaken belief that these are a low or even no maintenance plant. To date, when informing a client their Cypress has Seridium the most common response I receive is "I don't care", the next most common is "how much to chop it down" and the least common is "can you save my tree?"

treeseer

Thanks for the details.

I have several clients who have leyland hedges that are important to them for screen etc. Removal and replacemtn would be hugely expensive, so these soil treatments might work. off-label fungicide experimentation is also on the table but i like the approach of kicking the plants' own systems into gear so they can fight it on their own.

Eric Frei

There's pH testers for around $20.

There's moisture testers.

There's also some basic soil testers for the macro nutrients.

My advice is head to the local Ag supplier, Elders etc and see what they have. Farmers have been using these things for years.

I often dig a small hole, fill it with water and see how fast it disappears (drainage test).

You can test for sodicity using the emerson dispersion test, adjust with gypsum and lime however the condition is rare.

You can but organic ferts with trace elements these days, but it's best to know what's there first as overdoing elements can be toxic. Your local Ag place will know where to get basic soil tests done if people really care. I face that same problem here, most dont care and would happily pay you to fire up the chainsaw and stump grinder. It costs a lot more in many cases for the vet to do surgery on the dog than put it down, the decision the dog owner makes is up to them the vet just provides the options.

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treeseer

That is true only if you ignore the lost value of the tree, so it's our yob imo to highlight that value.

Eric Frei

There's a calculator, you watch things expand in this area. If the person with trees gets something for it over the person without then positive progress will be strong.

Download| Quantifies Carbon Sequestration Trees

By positive progress I refer to the professional maintenance and care of trees not a cowboy ridden industry full of BS and insurance claims.

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treeseer

We agree completely--carbon is only one benefit, but by quantifying it, extrapolating to other benefits is more tangible and credible.