CONSUMERS:- Arborists are a profession, see what others charge!

Eric Frei

We have had 2 LG appliance break down at the same time.

1 x 7kg front loader washing machine purchased 2003 $1700

1 x dishwasher purchased 2004 $850

Whilst I'm not getting into the whole sad story of these inferior garbage products I will tell you what it's going to cost to get them fixed as they are both out of warranty now (had 3 year extended warranty)

Call out fee is $77 includes no work or labour.

Labour is charged at $99 per hour, billed at 6 minute intervals, for example 18 minutes would cost you $29.70

Now that's for a guy who works at ground/floor level, doesn't handle one of the worlds most dangerous tools nor need a stack of gear and tow around 2 tonnes of chipper and stump grinders with staff.

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Second scenario, plumber came to put camera down pipe to see where it was broken.

Total time on job, 15 minutes.

Bill was $308 and took nothing to the tip and my stump grinder would cost a heck of a lot more than that camera.

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Electrician came to fit external sensor lights as low lives were breaking into my car.

$88 call out and $88 per hour.

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Consumers, please keep in mind what you are comparing us to and what you expect from us. If you want a free quote and free advice you'll most likely get what you pay for.

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TrevMcRev

Good points ekka. People dont understand our profession. Many just want a man with a chainsaw to tell them what needs doing and how cheap they will do it. People want to know what to do but dont want to pay for the advice that can save their trees and their wallet. They cant see the savings for the trees!

Paying a professional $100 for unbiased objectional professional advice on the health & safety of their trees to best understand exactly what if anything is needed.....

OR

Save the $100 and spend $1500 pruning/removing a tree uneccesarily because the treeguy doesnt want to have done a FREE quote for nothing.

One of the big differences between us and the other professions besides regulation of industry is they are services needed on demand urgently.

If your hot water goes or a pipe blocks/bursts or your power goes out you NEED these people NOW. As long as they can turn up soon enough they have the customer by the proverbials and can charge what they want. The customer wont turn them away because they might not be able to get anyone else the same day.

Doing work on your trees can often be put off for years.

The industry needs to improve.
Free quotes cost a LOT of money to provide.
We need to define a way of distinguishing quotes from consultations for a start and charging accordingly. Charging for quotes would be difficult to do when no one else does. Charging by the hour, like these other trades, would also be difficult as all tree service companies costs vary greatly.
1 might charge $80ph but take 2 days to do what another can do in 3hrs at $300ph.

I could be cracking a can o worms with this one but....

In many ways i see a need for clear separation between Arborists and Tree Services.

Tree Services should cut trees for people that want trees cut.

Arborists should be engaged on a professional basis to help people decide how to best manage their trees.

I'll run and hide on that one!

Eric Frei

I have two quotes right now in the system where I was asked to go out and work in a psuedo consulting fashion offering advice for works.

In the event of the quotes not coming to fruition they are to pay me $100 for the visit. That's was established clearly prior.

Neither has paid as they promised I'd have the job ... which I haven't yet (yet, used loosely). Give a few more days and I'll have to be on the blower to see if I was dudded.

On protected trees they need qualified people and paperwork plus works schedules for pruning etc need to be submitted to council. You have seen on this forum where I have shown the caliber of work and advice given by shonksters. One of the works invovles treatments which go further than chainsaws.

Furthermore isn't it ironic the amount of times we need to do restorative work where some other hack has butchered the tree.

Consumers please realise once a piece is cut off it cannot be glued back on, cutting is wounding, in some cases the tree gets removed after a good dosage of hacking.

The number of times some-one dead woods a tree and never talks about why it got dead wood in the first place and what to do to ensure it doesn't keep declining is a joke ... because they dont know and dont care. In fact if it does die they think it's more work for them.

Good arborists are hard to find, some may have paperwork but practice little of what they learn and continue to hack away. I suppose it's like any trade, you get good plumbers and bad plumbers for example, so if it's the first time you are going to use an arborist you need to check them out well ....

.... which means more than "Oh, they're a big company they'll be fine." What a load of rubbish that is, it's all about that 1 person, the arborist.

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Roller

Also have you noticed how willing the general public are to pay the likes of plumbers by the hour? I wonder how many clients would be happy to pay a tree service company by the hour! my guess is very few! why not? my skills are as well honed as any other trades person!

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www.arboraeration.co.uk Tree healthcare specialists covering the UK

treefeller

Here here, It dosnt help when you get cowboys coming in and undercutting your quotes and the massacare the tree, They make it harder for us to get work because of the rep that they leave. If i see a client and they need work doing, i explain to them the best way round the work and occassionaly show them a portfolio,

groundpounder

I believe we have all felt that sick feeling when you show up to do an estimate and realize that you are doing a free consultation. I would love to be able to charge for estimates, but the sad fact is that the know nothing hackers will always give free estimates because it is the only way they can get onto a property. Most consumers will not pay for something they can get for free, and they have no idea of the knowledge required to get to the actual root of their tree problems. So it is and so it always shall be. Amen. The only way around it that I have found is to "learn to decern". If you get the feeling that your potential client is just looking for the cheapest way as opposed to the right way, do not waste time trying to convert them. They already know what they want. Run away. I have gone as far as to snatch my estimate out of a person's hand when they give me that "so and so gave me a quote for half of your price" crap. Some folks can only learn the hard way. On the other hand, if you run into someone that understands that there is a difference between an arborist and "someone to cut their trees",give them all you've got. Make them an apostle. On occasion I have had the price shopper call me back after they happen to to talk to the apostle, and with a whole new attitude. That's a victory for me personally and for our industry that would not have happened any other way. My apostles bring me pre qualified people that already know there is a difference. My apostles create other apostles before I ever even step on their property. I have never gotten a referral from a price shopper so they get as little of my time as possible. The apostles have built my business and my reputation, and I will drop what I am doing to help them if they need me.
Any time that I agree to do a paid consultation I get the fee in my hand before I breathe a word of advice. If that's not acceptable to the client, I walk away, as that to me is a sign of larger problems to come. I always offer to apply the fee to the cost of any work we may do, which gives value they can understand up front.

Drouin Tree Service

Funny you say this Rolla just been on holiday with a plumber from Essex and his family,house on the thames,BMW absolutley rolling in it!

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Eric Frei

I was working at a house this week where a cheap plumber was working.

Reckons he's flat out cant scratch himself coz he charges only $60 an hour and $60 call out. Drove an ole beat up falcon wagon with roof racks, that's it, dont need no $100k of gear.

Now imagine he only bills out 30 hours a week and does only 3 call outs per day (5 day week)

That's $2700 per week! No staffing problems either, and have not considered what his mark up is on parts etc.

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Drouin Tree Service

He loves his 30hr week then the phones turned off!Getting a plumber here is a real arm- twisting exercise unless its open chequebook...

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Eric Frei

How do you like the ones that ring up and want you to drive by their vacant block of land and ring them with a price to clear it?

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DBS

Being a Carpenter, I suffer from VERY similar situation, it makes me sick that the carpenter is the first trade on the worksite, the last to leave and the carpenter over all sees the least amount of money on the job broken down to $/hr, AND has to "baby-sit" MOST of the subcontracted trades.

On the other hand, being in control has a lot of advantages as well. As the Carpenter, you have the ability to see the job to completion prior to the jobs completion. You have to. Just to be able to foresee any future complications, so you don?t end up ruining the schedule you have set forth for the job.

All in all MOST trades are ridiculous w/ their pricing, and have the audacity to complain about what they charge, (in their mindset, they are "cheap" and even have excuses as to why they charge what they do)..... ie " when was the last time you had your car worked on by a mechanic, when was the last time you had your furnace fixed" and its funny how they all default to , "that?s not my job, I?m a plumber, I NEED YOU to install blocking for my pipes, or diverter,? whatever the case may be. Electricians are not excused here either, they fall into same boat.

Always looking to do the least amount of work and get paid the most. It?s an ideal model for the pure business man, but its horrible business ethics!!


-Daryl

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Stihl MS 200T
Stihl MS 361

Steve Tipton

With regards to the land clearing, a common hate of mine is the low priority given to it by builders and owners.
Usually, they know who's going to tile and paint the finished house before they organise the site clearance. I've had many calls "Can you get here tomorrow, we're pouring footings the next day".
then chase them for payment.

Eric Frei

What's worse is the places they leave some of the trees then ask about having them cut down when the building is complete.

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TrevMcRev

Spot on!

And how long has the job been in planning???
12 months??
More??

They fall over when you tell them it needs a permit and will take 3 weeks to get

Steve Tipton

OR- They doze all the trees in a heap of dirt and sh!t at the back of the block, build the house in front and then want it chipped and removed

Ace Master

That is so true,We should be charging for all of our Quoting time.It would stop the time wasters and the picking of our brains so the owner has an idea on how to go about trying it himself.

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Website: The Mt Dandenong Ranges Tree Specialists

YouTube: Ace Tree Master

Oldtimer

Since you guys are already talking about cost and charges. How much would it cost to grind down a stump 24 inches across and about 6 inches tall to ground level? (Liveoak). The guys were already working about one block from my house, so not special trip to the site. The stump is located about 10 feet from the street curve with not obstructions on a flat lawn. You did not have to clean up the chips, I did that.
Location: Austin, Texas, USA.

P.S. Any figures are welcomed for comparison. I am not trying to undercut the guys that did the work just to be educated on the cost of doing some jobs. I realize there will be great variations from large cities to small cities and from one country to another.

Here is a link to the photo is you care to see it.
http://farm3.static.??????.com/2307/...ec97deda_m.jpg

Eric Frei

We usually go between 100mm to 300mm below grade. If it was just so lawn could grow over the top we'd go 100mm below.

Live oak is about as dense/heavy as our run of the mill euc.

Good access, mulch raked over hole, I'd charge maybe $120 however if I was already there or across the road maybe $75 etc

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D Mc

We like to make $125/hr for stump grinding. Smaller machines cost less to operate but take longer to do the job. Big machines are big bucks.

From what we could see, our price would be right in there with Ekka's, though we average 6 - 8" below grade.

D and S Mc

Steve Tipton

About the same price as Ekka here too.

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Heightmaster

matshute

I think free quotes are a necceasry evil in contracting. I set aside a day a week for this and quote around jobs aswell. Repeat customers often except a job on an hourly rate over the phone although with new customers this is unlikely.

Charging for quotes enters the realm of consultancy where what you are doing is in effect charging for written advice. There is no problem with this if you feel your achedemic qualifications could stand up in court in the case of tree failure.

If you are charging for quote (in the UK at least) you should hold proffesional indemnity insurance and I would charge more than $100. More like $100 (?35) per hour and be billing my travel and report writing time. Then theres no time left to prune, so I give instant carbon copy quotes and refuse to quote again if more than 2 quotes have not resulted in a job.

Oldtimer

Thank You everyone that replied. I will let you guys know as soon as I get the Invoice from the Company. Hope they give me a break since they were already near here.
Thanks again -
Very Helpful bunch of Professionals

quercus

Let's take a look at this the other way around... from the clients point of view. Of course we are all like..."hell why don't these people understand???"
I'll tell you why...

The three things that you came up with in your post, are things that people generally NEED!!! There is a problem so it must be fixed, and people realize that... They feel it as a flaw in their everyday life... Damn can't do laundry because machine is broken... Water is still flooding away because the pipe is busted... Those are things people think about every day when they occur. In order to make them understand why we ask that kind of money, we need to get them to understand that we NEED trees too. No-one thinks about it when it's out there, except when it's causing problems.

When I meet beginning arbs around here, I always try to convince them to begin for a few years on a lower price and rent out the big gear, like chippers and grinders when they need it. Get the name first, then cash in on it. Start basic, then grow bigger...Clients see you upgrade your price a bit as years go by, and they notice it, but then they know what they are paying for and they understand. When you start out high and then go lower, they usually think you are a con-artist... Starting your own business and ask prices like you wanna reap gold when you didn't even sow anything, is bad...

TREEMONKEY

I have bin in business for a year and a half. Give free Quotes everyone here does.
I started quoting 1/2 of the big guys and slowly got a good reputation and raised prices as we bought more equipment. Most of my work comes from word of mouth, or people seeing us work and a good clean up always helps.I now quote 2/3rds of what i think the big guys are quoting.Thier are 4 certified arborists or companies that have them that i know of that work locally .the 2nd,3rd, 4th biggest companies are not arborist. I am NOT A CERTIFIED ARBORIST but practice to the best of my knowledge. I refuse work from customers that want to Butcher a tree.
I am writing the arborists certification test in april and plan on continuing to learn more after getting my cerfification (hopefully).

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matshute

Thats the way. I've been trading for 3 years but been in the industry nearly 10 and have worked all over the world. I undestand what your saying about keeping the costs down, but you really need to work out how much you need to charge per man per day, to include perchasing and replacing kit.

It a real mile stone when you can price based on your rates and not worry what all the other guys prices might be.

juniorgilman

Several factors go into why a customer will price shop tree work:

1. Most often they don't know good tree work from bad tree work. When a plumber comes to fix a pipe or a leak, if it no longer leaks = good work. If it still leaks = bad work.

2. When a tree is still standing (dead or alive) they don't see the immediate problem, therefore they have time to get several quotes. If they have water all over the place, or sparks shooting from the wall, they just want someone to fix it.

3. Alot of homeowners have chainsaws, and feel they don't need professional service. ie this quote from Treemachine on another thread:

"I watched the new guy next door destroy a perfectly good tree a tried to stop him but he could not here me. He ripped a strip right down a nice maple. i just introduced myself told him i cut trees had my dump truck and chipper in driveway. 5 minutes later he is standing on a ladder taking off big branches"

and back to the first point, as long as they finished the work without incident, (excluding harming the tree, b/c they don't know) it was good work. People try to fix their own electrical and plumbing issues all the time too, and that doesn't always end well either.

It's an uphill battle, and I really like the apostle tree customer idea!!

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Husky 385xp
Husky 334t

Pro Nemus

I think that it is very important to look at what you are offering the customer, and price accordingly. Each market is different, and the competition in each market is offering the customer different things.

The trick is to find an under-represented market niche and fill it. Our company that has been in business since 1995 offers an excellent middle-market service. As we looked into expanding into a different market, we realized that middle-market competition is very stiff in this area. To succeed, we started a whole new company with a service offering more focused on premium service, and a business model which will allow us to compete successfully in the premium niche segment.

Now, just because we have a "new" company, does this mean that we should discount the value of our services? Of course not. In fact, our services will be priced equal to or higher than our competition. We can do this because our service offerings are superior, and our target clientele are willing to pay more to receive a solution which more effectively fulfills their need.

The point is that, in any given market, different customers are looking for different things. If you find a significant group of customers whose needs are not being addressed, and create an offering which uniquely satisfies this need, you have a solid foundation upon which to build success.

treesailor

I took my car to the shop to find out what was wrong with the power windows cost $ 124 just to tell me what is wrong. Many car repair shops charge to take a look the days. i feel its fair not 124 but some charge. I think that tree workers should get paid to look at a tree. Many people look at you strange when you give them a price. However they don't realize all the time it took just for you to to that job. Looking at the job , repairing equitment, billing all of which you don't get paid for. I think with totals fuel prices we all should charge to go out and explain tree problems.

TreeHumper

There are plenty of consumers out there that feel the same about having electrical, plumbing, heating, and all the other typical home or auto repairs done. They don't like the cost of it and feel they are being somehow cheated.

There are hacks in every business and a segment of the market thats willing to deal with them. There are do-it-yourselfers as well. More people have a screwdriver, hammer, pipe wrenches, etc.... than have chainsaws. They are the ones that will attempt to fix that burst pipe, clogged drain, shorted circuit or damaged ceiling.

That is not your market! What is needed is the ability to clarify to a prospective client the value of your service over the alternatives. When someone is trying to pry open your wallet you resist it till they prove the value.

Start selling more and do less quoting.

Arizona Kenn

Two Trades: First one, HVAC guy comes to fix a broken furnace at a church. Service is in one hour and the place is cold as an ice box. HVAC guy opens door to furnace, looks over panel, flips a switch and the furnace comes to life. He then submits a bill for $125.00 for five minutes work including the walk from his truck. Pastor says "$125.00 for flipping a switch?" HVAC guy says "no, $125.00 for knowing what switch to flip."
Second Trade: Dentist, pulls a tooth, it's an easy job and he gets it done in five minutes, submits a bill for $125.00. Customer says "$125.00 for five minutes work?" Dentist says "Well, I'll take as long as you want."
I guess it's all how you look at the labor rates people charge. I know in my field I am the best, there are no better, and I charge accordingly. I work from referral only, it's taken a long time to get here but I never slacked on what I charged my clients. Once you give away a job at a lower price you are committed in keeping the same wages to their friends and relatives. I might add, my high level of confidence is due to the professionals I have learned from on this forum. Thank you all for your participation here.