CONSUMERS:- Arborists are a profession, see what others charge!

Eric Frei

I agree too!

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Nebula

I have been interested in what people charge especially whe I am on the north coast NSW.
I was speaking to a guy the other day about the whole tree services industry up here, and he works as a lopper for a chap he said paid roughly 100k for his rig, truck and chipper, and charges out $1500 a day.

He said he is making great money, and believes you can pay for your rig and start making big bucks in 2 years, he has a great knowledge on trees, tree work and holds a degree in enviromental science,
but is dodgy in the sense that he has no insurance cashes his workers climber and groundie, but their happy as they get good rates $30 $35 an hour with no formal qualifiications, christ they havn't even got a green card and use all his equipment.

So if you run a legit tree business how are you supposed to compete with that, when you have insurance costs and everything else to put into your costing?
He comes along knows as much as you and does the job as well but doesnt work within the OHS guidelines (ie: workers must have all tickets and be insured and so forth), but maybe is cheaper for it.

There really is no legislation in this industry at all, if work cover or something came in on one of their jobs they would be shut down in a second, but they havn't as yet.

Steve Tipton

And they never will, unless there's a serious accident.

I've been feeling like a dickhead for years for trying to do the right thing by all concened.

It gets worse all the time!

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Heightmaster

The Tree Whisperer

its all up to us NEBULA!!

The whole reason insurance costs are so high are because of people just like you have mentioned. It is a mandatory requirement under the OH&S Act 2000 and the OH&S regulation 2001 that workers are appropriately trained certified and made aware of risks on the job through site inductions and riask assessments. YES! this costs us but the small amount of lost time is no where near the amount of losing your home or worse your freedom if you are charged with industrial manslaughter as aresult of a fatality on your worksite. So if you know who this guy is then inform workcover and shut him down. this protects you from higher insurance costs, and ultimately will protect the guys working for this IDIOT!! If we know about these things but fail to act then we become just as guilty by association.

Thats my opinion any way!

Nebula

Yeah I agree, though I need to make a correction as I stated he wasnt insured, he is insured though not for the guys he uses. His work is insured and the people using his services are fully covered. Though the guys he gets in to work aren't and I guess to a certain extent it is their choice to work for him and take on that risk themselves, to get the cash rate they want.

Cole

its happening in canberra as well theres now 45 tree companies for 340,000 people, what pisses me off the most is when you have to supply all your insurance documentation to the Electrical provider to be able to work on there network....then go through CATT close approach tree trimming course, this is all good and well but then you see people without insurance etc etc doing line cleanances etc F@#K that.

Nebula

Yeah I am seeing so many more dodgy old utes and chippers going around lately I think everyone is having ago around here they have no insurance no qualifications complete backyard jobs

The prob is the majority of people that want their trees removed really dont care they just want it done cheap, then these dodgy guys take out half their house or shed doing the removal and the owners stand there scratching their heads asking themselves how

I have noticed people that care a little more for the enviroment on their propertys and are doing a lot of regen are a lot more interested in your qualifications, or go by recomendations which is good, as they want everything taken down with care and taken out of the bush with as little damage as possible to surrounding saplings and habitat in general, my kind of folk.

And hopefully that never changes, as that is why I got into this industry...

The Tree Whisperer

yeah it is a changing trend (I HOPE!!!) A number of council in Northern NSW either have or are in the process of developing guidleins for arborist reports which will state that the author of the report must have suitable quals usually AQF IV, so people are starting to realise that if they pay a dodgy arborist to do a quick job and he scribbles a one paragraph report saying 'I believe the trees are dangerous and should be removed' and just that (Yes I have seen these) and know of clients who have had to pay twice for a report because the first one was worthless, that it is going to cost them more in the long run, a lot of coucils also have a guide to arborists that encourage people to check out quals and references b4 contracting them.

I didnt ralise you were in Byron Nebula scary part is that I probably know of or have at least heard of the dodgy ones you are talking about, I can think of 3 that fit your previous discussion. And your right it sucks when qualified legitimately trained arborists cant compete with dodgy tree hackers. TIME FOR REGULATION!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEFORE MORE PEOPLE GET INJURED OR KILLED

Alders

Hear, Hear. In Brittany I set aside a day to run around the country and 'walk and talk ' with the customers - but that is because all the tree operations here offer 'Devis/consultation Gratuit' - free quote and consultation. And very few appreciate the time/driving and sheer arm bending ( 'No, we can't top the poplar - again') that leaves tree operators crying on the ground in despair.
Having said that - the bretons are very good about refreshments and libation for your efforts.

However - one advantage of having been around the block a few times, is that regular clients will accept a daily rate without the need for a pre visit. THAT saves a lot of faffing around.

second-gen_monkey

this is all very true.

my friends uncle is a plumber, $50us an hour, $50 to show and a 20% mark up on parts. he makes good money but doesn't do much to save it so his truck tools etc are lackluster so the customer tends to think they are getting a great deal. if a wall needs knocking or a floor dug up the rate hits 150 an hour. and customers smile and say thank you.

my brother was a computer tech for three years in the early 2000's. $150- $300 an hour, $100 to show and often he just kills the power to a modem for thirty seconds, runs a diagnostics and takes lunch. the customer essentially paid for him to eat pizza and smoke cigarettes then read back a fact sheet. or look a code up on google.

if i give a general price of $150hr i get a funny look and the cellphone comes out and asplundh is called.

silentoak

Always a though one consulting.

Ask around any profession.

I charge 100$ diesel and time excl VAT, for a check, we agree on cash in hand at the end of a 50min session ( yes I set my alarm ) and if I feel it "clicks" with the punters then I still can choose if I split the fee in half, receive the cash or receive the money and deduct it as a discount on the end bill or whatever.

My experience after 20 years is that the people who find it normal that you charge for coming out to give your time and expertise on the added value of their property, don't think twice about paying and don't squable about the end bill either.

Then you have the folks that double take in a :
"what??? he's charging already just to look!!!" manner,
then I just know I don't need their hang ups or hassles.

I consider the fee a filter system for my peace of mind that way.

On the other hand;

A client even once asked, after I had gone along with a 4 digit quote on tree maintenance for a pretty complex 4 acres of historical land; "can't you just get a few boy scouts in and tell them what to do and throw a few bucks at them, then I'll give you a couple of hundred bucks and we call it a deal ?"

I pointed out the time involved, of kids and sharp moving objects, the responsibilities of lost limbs and insurance issues,
and the deal clincher was: the ultimate devaluation of his property.
We went a few rounds, it was fun, because mainly;
I can't be bought.

In the end I did get the job on my terms, and for my price,
and decided against scouts of any description or form,
came in with my dream team, and in the end he was pretty cool about it all, what I learned was for some people the money thing is a game ( he had been a high powered manager all his life, and just felt like kickin the can with me a bit )

Bottom line; people either instinctively "know" the value of their trees, and it's up to us to underline that and add to that value.

For the ones on the fence; I compare it to them investing in art, you wouldn't hang a Rothko in the basement or chop it in half for it to fit in the hall.

Drouin Tree Service

It amazes me the diffrences in pricing on "bigger jobs" i qouted a job HAND clearing(no machines to be used) sweet petosterum along a 2km section of road reserve,I basically factored 6 man crew for 18 days.

The client informed me they had a road building contractor with "heaps"of unqualified to use a chainsaw labourers get the job for $20k and they were estatic to have someone do it so cheap! why do they even bother?

These are the type of jobs that drag the whole unregulated industry down IMHO

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Tammy1949

Also have you noticed how willing the general public are to pay the likes of plumbers by the hour? I wonder how many clients would be happy to pay a tree service company by the hour! my guess is very few! why not? my skills are as well honed as any other trades person!

Paul Toivonen

I think the main problem here is; People are willing to get the Hacks in if it saves them a few bob.
I do an average 10 free quotes to get one job.
The attitude is; as Eric said "They are a big company ,they will be fine"
Yeah right, I am a one man op. with sub. contract when I can justify it!!!
Another consequence of having a lot of cash work about is that honest business has to change the way we operate.
I hate doing free quotes, so now I need to start charging.
It weeds out the "A" holes , just after a bit of paper to show they're cash mate.
If you are willing to pay for a quote ,you are also willing to pay for a job.
That = Better customers.
Quotes dont actually cost the client anything, provided they use you for the job.
That = Better client relations.
I prefer working for people who are willing to pay, happy with the work and respect you, your training and qualifications.

Paul Toivonen

Most would have an anxiety attack when you told them $500 p/h!!
I dont know too many DDs or sparkys who arent licensed.
Maybe that is what is needed?

Eric Frei

BM,

What is interesting is the number of people who think they can call themselves an arborist but not be qualified as such.

At this point in time this poll has had 97 votes and the result right now 20 out of 97 (21%) believe that can call themselves an arborist and not be qualified.

Just for clarity I am discussing Australian arborists here not those ISA American multiple choice 2 hour test ones.

We don't really need a licensing system, just qualifications and if the consumer knows how to look and check on that then we will all be fine without a pile of red tape (and fees) which also fail.

How to check that tree service | arborist

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esky79

Regulation and licencing are the key!

Eric Frei

Absolutely not. Do you not watch ACA and other shows where regularly people are ripped off by licensed people?

It is just another tax on decent businesses and people to protect who? The consumer. Protect them from what?

What is it that you want to protect the consumer from?

Parliament Sittings Arborist Industry Regulation

Is it fair to say that if everyone driving a car is licensed then there'd be no accidents, no drunk drivers, no pot smoking drivers etc?

I see you are in Victoria, if you were born there then a totalitarian mentality is most likely, it's as ingrained as football and meat pies for the majority I have found.

Here's a typical example:-

Read this about laser pointers and other states like Victoria.

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Jay Jay

Hi All ... I would like to know what is an acceptable charge for an arborist report on 3 flooded gums in a suburban back yard. The local council knocked back the request to have the trees removed and replaced with more appropriate trees, and said they would only reconsider their decision should an arborist report provide reasons for removal. It is understood that there is a cost related to travel and on site inspection time, but what would be a considered time for the writing of a report and at what charge. Thanks.

Jeff Darby

Arborist report writing is a time consuming thing to do, it has to conform to certain criteria, it has to be factual with references to the arborist findings regarding the tree. When I assess a tree to write a report I report only things I see and others can see using my report as guidance. I would say the cost involved in report writing varies depending on methods used, ongoing assessment can push the cost higher again if the authority does recognise the things you have noted but needs further more intensive investigation to made to come to a decision.

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© Jeffrey J Darby 2011