CONSUMERS:- Arborists are a profession, see what others charge!

Eric Frei

A guy on this forum does trees as well as anything else he can around peoples yards to make a quid (fair enough too) goes out to a quote.

Lady gets talking and asks what his hourly rate is for general gardening ... although he loathes to do hourly rate and prefers to fix price a job he tells her $30

She responds, "Oh, that's expensive."

He left.

$30/hour in Australia for a self employed man with own equipment and running costs is darned cheap. He also has good saws, tools, tipper truck and can whip through a job but if all the customer looks at is hourly rate then the most likely to make money could be the slowest most useless person.

There's little incentive to have great gear and be fast/educated and safe if you earn less. Hourly rate stump grind, quick, hide the Rg50 and get the 13hp shove along out.

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jacko

why is it that some people will pay $300 per hr and other won't even give you carton beer. because you have to talk up your equiment and the job

Oldtimer

So, I finally got the invoice for the amount quoted (sixty five plus tax) and I was surprised that I could pay it on-line by credit card. Now, I see that is why it took that long to get the invoice. I came from their HQ up North in the US and I am way South in Texas. ( It is like another country!)
I was happy with the results and the service provided was fair priced, fast and quick!

playfordtree

My beer fridge shit itself easter saturday

Had a refrig. mechanic come out today to have a look.

He was here approx 8 mins (6 mins. of that, was him listening to me telling him how tragic it was not having cold beer)
He used his screw driver to reset the defrost controller (little switch at the back of the fridge)
The fridge starts working again just fine
Then he says "you better replace that controller as it's liable to give you trouble again"

I said "OK how much will that be mate?"
"It will be $253 dollars, parts & labour" he replies

Now bear in mind the controller is held in with one screw and has 3 wires clipped to it!
It would take him 2 minutes to change it over.(if that long)

I said "I'll have a think about it mate and get back to ya"
(Now that i know whats wrong i will replace it myself if it packs up again.)

Total cost of the 8 minute callout and 2 minutes with the screwdriver
=$88

I'm in the wrong game

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Euthanizing South Australian Trees
since 2007

Eric Frei

Exactly.

I went to the fridge parts place and bought plus fitted my own thermostat. Piss easy.

I also wire up my own extension cords and power points when they need replacing, they're universal and idiot proof! Cant get electrocuted if you tried coz BY LAW our house HAD TO BE FITTED with a dead man switch.

Shove that in ya pipe you nutcases with ya stinking rules!

I also told the plumber I do my own tap washers and reseat them where required too. I fixed the bathroom too.

Yet any ole wanker can buy a saw and off they go, experts! That's OK according to the law.

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spartek

Hey guys,I ve been reading theses posts.I am professional electrician and working on becoming a professional arborist,because its what I want to do,not what I have to do.You guys are full of great info and I,ve learned alot.So for any of Treeworlds members.If you ever have any electrical problems or questions,my knowledge and efforts are and I M away. My way of "giving back". Thanks again for all of your help, and WORK SAFE

DBS

Carpenter here... the same offer stands as well....





-Daryl

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Stihl MS 200T
Stihl MS 361

TrueBlacktopp

the company that i wok at actually charges customers for estimates, if the job goes thought the fee is waived. the charge is $30 thats just enough to scare all those people away that want the free advice, and make sure all those guys doing the free estimates are busy and we can focus on the real customers out there

Eric Frei

That's an interesting concept Blacktop.

How does it work out? How competitive is your market?

Personally, if it's not a black and white situation then of course you need to be paid for your advice.

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Drouin Tree Service

Yes the only buisness i know you buy bigger/better/quicker machines to earn less!!

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

treeseer

"The trick is to find an under-represented market niche and fill it.... What is needed is the ability to clarify to a prospective client the value of your service over the alternatives. " True!

1. Promote tree value.

2. Sell tree preservation.

This keeps me very busy. The initial consultation aka estimate is worth over $100 to the client.

treevet

3. Be/have the best damn take down man on the planet.

TreeDimensional

Or ALL of the above!

treevet

dats what i ment Brent (poet and didn't knowit)

TreeDimensional

Well I can tell you all that it isn't a picnic being the only guy around either. You MUST be consistant in your pricing OR you hear "why did so-and-so get a better price than me?".

The same thing applies to consistency with determining whether to prune a tree or remove it. When you are the only service in a large area, there is NO wearing the hat of the consultant or the pruner or the removal wizard........... you have to be well rounded in all the aspect of the industry.

We are also aquiring lots of equipment. This is done for two reasons, the first being there isn't any useful laborers, and two, I am getting old, and can't work as hard as I used to! With the equipment we take to a job, we virtually NEVER price a job by the hour. If the client wants to haggle, he can find someone else to do it, or do it himself. It isn't the equipment you own that makes you an arborist, it is how you USE it. Clients are relying on your knowledge of trees, not what you drive. But that helps in some markets TOO!

treevet

Get a mini skid/grapple next if you can Brent.

TreeDimensional

treevet, I have a tracked skid-steer, yes a mini would be nice but it would probably cost 4X as much as I paid for this one.

I think I need to have my partner GET a class 3A (CDL) licence. Ideally a couple employees would be the best but as you know, a bit more that respiration and a heartbeat are required to do tree work.

The other problem here is the government people would require me to do 20 hrs of paper work per employee/week, and subsidize their deductions to the tune of about $5.00/hr. Another issue here is, you have a real problem firing anyone. The MAN can be a real dick, when you have employees in Canada.

Yes, I hear it coming, you defer the additional cost on to the clients!

rbtree

I'd love to....


have Graeme.... but our trees are too small for him....


but no complaints about my main man!!!

rbtree

I could come be your bookkeeper, I type with three fingers, would that get the office time down to 15 hours?

I do hope you're exaggerating......

treevet

It is not the tracked or the skid aspect of the mini skid steer but rather the mini aspect that is revolutionary. Low impact, can get anywhere a gm can go and are amazingly versatile with all the attachments. Best thing since the chainsaw IMO. You no longer will have to worry about wearing out groundies and, if you, as you say, do not want to hire help, you can use it yourself and not get worn out or injured and get the job done quicker and move on to more jobs, make more money or go fishing/hunting again. They match up good to a crane and trailer for loading both of which you have. You don't have to pay them weekly and they show up and don't even have a hangover. Hey, maybe I'll quit and become a mini salesman.

TreeDimensional

Yes Roger there is a Santa Clause, WHOOPS, wrong answer. I was exaggerating, I should hire you to do the bookwork, I type with two fingers.

The point is, in Canada everything is geared towards the benefit of the employee, They can do NO wrong in the governments eyes. We are undergoing some major changes with OH&S, once the employee is signed off on a specific aspect of the industry, there is no coming back to sue the employer, without proving they were put in harms way deliberately. Another frustrating issue is the termination of an employee, in short it is difficult without major reason to let anyone go. AND in Saskatchewan IF you have 6 employees OR more, they have the right to form a union. Please don't get me going on that!

Dave, as you pointed out before, I am out in the middle of nowhere. We do have the odd million dollar home, and there are lots of people who have yards that make you feel guilty just walking on the lawn. The one thing we do have lots of is SPACE. There are very few yards that don't have a 10 foot gate somewhere. As far as being low impact, we schedule those sensitive jobs to when the ground is frozen and covered in snow. Storm season is a whole other game, most clients forget about the manicured lawn and flower beds when there is a tree in their living room!

Isn't it funny, the people with the high end homes and the gorgeous yards can always use more tree work. I guess it comes from the image the homeowner has envisioned in their mind, once the goal is met, they don't see that the trees are starting to decline.

These are just a few points of WHY arborists think the way they do, AND charge what they charge. Like other professions, there are changes happening all the time. A good arborist can stay current, or stagnate at a certain level. Personally I try to stay current, because it benefits me, and the clients who chose to hire me.

treevet

It is kind of funny that from your perspective there is not enough clients and your advantage is not much competition. City/suburb work like I and most of us do the disadvantage is too much competition and the advantage is a vast array of clients to vie for.

It all ends up on the same page. Be the best (reach for) and be ethical and try to separate yourself as the right choice to the client. The money will come in time. There are many keys to open these locks. Cracking books in all the applicable subjects, choosing the right equipment, treating clients like you would wish to be treated yourself, accumulating good contacts and advocates, etc., etc. If you approach all these necessary locks and put the right key in them success will flow like water.

TreeDimensional

Dave I think you may have misinterpreted my post. We are suffering growing pains. We have never advertised, and only do work by referral, and frankly, we don't need any more work. About seven years ago I was at a climbing workshop, the instructor (Rob Romeril) was talking about bosses, employees and clients. He mentioned that one way of measuring your success was by the amount of re-call work you get. About half the work we do is repeat clients and the rest is referrals from clients. Rob comes from Calgary AB, which is a huge market, with LOTS of tree care companies.

I might be a bit cynical, but, that comes from farming, where you are told what you can get ($ for your product), when you can get it, where you have to send it............ The tree care business is a service industry, driven by many factors, competition, need, salesmanship.......

What an arborist is worth is an accumulation of knowledge, experience, equipment and finally the client base. I would have never dreamed that I could make this much money, doing something I love do to. If I wasn't 50 and didn't have the farm, I wouldn't consider doing anything else. I have a bad habit of getting bored, with the tree game, there is enough challenge to keep the monotony to a minimum, and ALWAYS room to learn.

I just found my marks from my ISA certification, my worst mark was from the domain, "people,trees and ecology" (no longer on the exam), I guess I need to work on my PEOPLE SKILLS!

rick

OK, but that defrost timer will cost anywhere from $65 to $85 (retail), Travel to and from the job and the time involved in ordering the parts as well as the basic labour, and it will take more than two minutes.
Doing this on a daily basis I can tell you the margin in parts doesn't cover the hassles and continual freight stuff-ups.
It's much, much easier working on large commercial/industrial gear.

And do you have any idea of the overheads of the fridge bloke ?
Three licenses are needed just to operate (two Federal via the Department of the Environment, one State)
Public Liability insurance will be around $1600 a year (basic $10 million cover) for a one man band, etc. etc.

Eric nails it exactly and is what I cop all the time, so it doesn't matter what trade/profession you practice, we cop the same problems from our customer base, it's just the way it goes. There are customers out there that just want it done properly (look after them when you find them !) and those that don't give a rats as long as it's cheap (I usually walk away or overquote deliberately)

Eric Frei

I'm finding that the commercial market is far more viable, they care about things being done right, your appearance, promptness etc ... and eventually pay for it.

That's the only snag, the ole 30 days after the end of the month.

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Garry Brockley

i would work for the commercial bods all day long big companies, local auths thats my bag i sometimes spend months chasing this type of contract, yes the 30 days bit is a killer but when it comes in it's great, ok as long as you have a bank that understands working capital.

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gavin160

hi guys been doing work with 60 day invoice .... Bas#8rds
but boy are they paying for it though

Dano

Firstly I completely agree with you Ekka and all, but one thing that I always think of when I see a gloating successful plumber is the number of days they have spent (and will spend in the future) covered in my and other peoples crap

Dano

The Tree Whisperer

Good Points Trev and Ekka, I agree, I work as a council tree officer and have a private Arboricultural practice, On a weekly basis I see dodgy reports being compiled by 'Tree Workers' who (In some cases) are good at pruning and removal works, but are not qualified to write detailed arboricultural reports.
And it amazes me that no one wants to pay for Professional Arboricultural Services.

I live on the north coast of NSW where there is some very high priced real estate and no one wants to pay or even considers having a professional arborist inspect trees on their property prior to purchase, they will pay big bucks for a building inspection and pest inspection, whilst thinking the 80year old Norfolk Island pine with the reather large basal cavity and the dead top as a result of lightning strike is not worth the price of a consultant to inspect and recommend remediation.

I beleive it is up to industry Bodies such as ISAAC to assist and get the word outto the public that Arboriculture is not just any old bloke with a chainsaw, but involves tree care professionals who have studied and put many years into establishing a sound knowledge in regards to trees.

Sean Freeman

I agree with this, but it is also up to us to stand up and make our own voice heard when we read, see or hear poor advice being presented as best practice, or certain fact....when we know it is not.

These associations and professional bodies are rarely, if ever going to have the reach to be able to have a profile in our local neighbourhood...take every opportunity you get to make your own voice heard.