Chestnut Problem

Tim Craig · 2nd September 2007, 03:53 PM

Hi guys

I looked at a Horse Chestnut today that had cankers all the way round it's circumference. It also has chestnut leaf blotch - Guidnardia aesculi.

The client wants to save it, I said I may be able to prolong it's life by lifting the turf around it and replacing with fertilizer and mulch. No pruning is needed.

The cankers will be choking the vascular system or at least restricting the flow of nutrients up, sugars down etc.

I also suggested complete removal and replace with new trees.

Is there anything else I could do?

The client

loves her tree.

Sean Freeman · 2nd September 2007, 09:09 PM

I take it (since you make no mention of it) that there are no targets under this tree or within the impact zone if it were to fail at the base??

More information required Tim...pics would be nice too.

Ekka · 3rd September 2007, 12:32 AM

Forestry Commission - News - horse chestnut survey launched

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/bleed...dingcanker.pdf

Forest Research - Bleeding Canker of Horse Chestnut - Advice on disease management

From what I have read sounds like you're flogging a dead horse.

Although improving health and vigour will delay it appears no remedy in sight and the problem in UK is on the rise etc.

Just the way nature goes sometimes Tim, the more information you have and research the more likely your customer is to know the outcome. Seems to have stumped the experts too.

In this post you can see another of our usually tough cadaghi's dropped dead. http://www.treeworld.info/8949-post44.html

Fungal cankers, the eternal enemy of trees.

Sean Freeman · 3rd September 2007, 01:50 AM

Lets not loose sight of the fact that cankers are secondary factors in tree decline, trees and cankers have evolved together of millions of years, and for each individual tree the presence of fungal spores outside and inside their tissues is a constant pressure with which they have to deal.....being able to identify and at least manage if not treat the primary causes, now thats the aim.

Ekka · 3rd September 2007, 05:22 AM

Funny thing about it is why do some trees succumb and others not, like the two I had side by side.

And why is there all of a sudden an epidemic when there never was before?

30 kids in a class, all exposed to a cold virus, some kids have time off, some get the sniffles and some dont get anything. Scientists still haven't worked it out, they have tried diets, fitness etc but there's no real 100% nailed answer.

Pics would be ideal for this one, also that canker is not just nailing the old trees over there, search Google a bit and you'll see it's taking young ones out to, so somethings going on.

Roller · 3rd September 2007, 07:54 AM

The tree has phytothora [bleeding cankers] no need to TD it simply requires a good PHC man, it will require decompaction and macro and micro nutrient injection..

Tim Craig · 3rd September 2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

I take it (since you make no mention of it) that there are no targets under this tree or within the impact zone if it were to fail at the base??

More information required Tim...pics would be nice too.

Pavement on one side of the tree, the tree is stunted after years of hacking abuse.

It's a sad looking tree alright. I'll get a photo, but be prepared to be shocked by the pathetic specimen of treehood you will see. Poor bugger.

Tim Craig · 3rd September 2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Forestry Commission - News - horse chestnut survey launched

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/bleed...dingcanker.pdf

Forest Research - Bleeding Canker of Horse Chestnut - Advice on disease management

From what I have read sounds like you're flogging a dead horse.

Although improving health and vigour will delay it appears no remedy in sight and the problem in UK is on the rise etc.

Just the way nature goes sometimes Tim, the more information you have and research the more likely your customer is to know the outcome. Seems to have stumped the experts too.

In this post you can see another of our usually tough cadaghi's dropped dead. http://www.treeworld.info/8949-post44.html

Fungal cankers, the eternal enemy of trees.

Great info Ek, thanks. Damn cankers everywhere on chestnut these days.

Tim Craig · 3rd September 2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roller

it will require decompaction and macro and micro nutrient injection..

Decompaction I can do with the vertical mulching technique, but what specific injection are you thinking of and who uses it in the UK? examples, where can you buy it.

Ekka · 3rd September 2007, 12:51 PM

Why are all these chestnuts getting cankers?

Sean Freeman · 3rd September 2007, 01:44 PM

Tim its inadvisable to apply treatments without knowing exactly what it is you are dealing with...you really need to take comprehensive soil root and leaf samples and have them assayed to establish just what is going on in the soil food web. Its more difficult for you being in the UK, but get friendly with some microbiologists at your local uni or college...over here we use SFI labs, they're also set up in the US, but not in the UK as yet.

Even very serious infections are treatable with antagonistic fungal combinations, boosting the beneficial microfauna and flora of the soil also has major benefits for tree health and vigour without the very negative impacts of fertilisers...personally I would caution against fertilising declining trees.

Application of the identified fungi and fungal foods can be done through soil drenching and foliar sprays including the bark.

Shigo used to often comment that when he was touring around the world delivering presentations he would be presented with numerous cases of "new pathogenic plagues" be they fungi or bacteria, his feelings were that these fungi if exotic to the region/country could move rapidly through tree populations previously unexposed to that strain, but that the biology of trees has evolved to deal with the mechanisms of infection utilised by both fungi and bacteria, and what was being observed by Arborists was not some previously unknown natural pathogen but rather the culmination of a range of factors driven most forcefully by the impact of human activities.

Phytophora is a real problem everywhere in the world for those who plant grow and manage vegetation, but its life cycle is understood. Limiting its impact on tree populations is possible I believe, but dependant on how much resource is to be committed to that effort....to some degree comes back around to the oft discussed issue of when is a tree no longer worth retaining.

Roller · 3rd September 2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Craig

Decompaction I can do with the vertical mulching technique, but what specific injection are you thinking of and who uses it in the UK? examples, where can you buy it.

The tree will eventualy die, as the the fungus will ring the tree and stop the phloem, are the leaves yellow? loads of Horse chestnut have the problem , the trick is to act now before other fungi start to attack, Armillaria is a prime fungus that will move in for the kill when a tree is stressed.

If you can verticle mulch, all good, then simply soil drench with the product I use, by injection I mean root/soil injection with a deep root feeder.

I'll send you a pm regarding the product I sell to a select few, I bought a load in bulk, I don't sell for profit,Tim I carry out all types of decompaction work and nutrient injection, air-spade work etc..

If any other Brits need any advice on the purchase of soil conditioners PM me

Sean is right about being cautious fertlizing stressed trees, but I would add ' nitrogen' is by far the worst thing for this tree, my fert contains micro-nutrients, myccorhizae spores [just in case lol], and cleated iron..

dogweed · 5th September 2007, 01:14 PM

I listened to Dr Joan Webber from the UK's Forest Research the other day. The bleeding cankers affecting horse chestnuts in the UK at present are mostly not Phytophera, but Pseudomonas syringae pathovars. Little is known about the pathology of the problem and I would suggest that rushing in and deep mulching, fertilising or pretty much anything else is not wise given how little is understood.

Whilst the prognosis is not good, Dr Webber has seen horse chestnuts infected arrest their decline and live.

It was suggested that if felling / pruning tools should be sterilised afterwards and care should be exercised in the disposal of arisings.

matty f · 5th September 2007, 02:00 PM

not nice this disease! also chesnut leaf miner is also ravaging trees around my way.
some few trees ive found with it recover mostly all others dont ,as soon as you notice any form of trunk gurdling remove it as ive been called out to a few that the stems have snapped due to the nature of the dead and alive wood of horse chesnut not been a good supportive structure for a whole tree crown.

Ive tryed repollarding old pollards that had not been touched for 10+ years as only the regrown stems where gurdled,they came back nice but now have horse chesnut leaf miner on the regrowth! I also pollared a mature one that was badly infected and had started gurdling as the customer did not want it felled and hoped the mutalated tree might produce some regrowth that would eventually develope in to a new crown but that died or is very close at the moment, all the other badly infected ones ive come across have been felled,i have tryed pruning out infected branches this seems to be working but there is still weeping legions on the trunk wich to me dont look a good sighn ......ive also found phytopher recently on a few birch ,maples and beach........hey roller do you remember that beach tree i showed you at the top of mr prices garden?im pretty sure thats phytophera have a look when you get up there

Ekka · 5th September 2007, 02:43 PM

Sounds bad, got a lot of people stumped.

What about weather, has it been peculiar for say the last 2 to 3 years?

Nothing works on it, all fungicides fail, maybe if you guys can have a few in different locations try some different techniques.

Over here our usual tough as nails mango trees have been looking pretty ordinary, seems the tips affected by fungal problems. I tried phosphite and I tried macozeb, the fungus is anthracnose. Now the instructions said phosphite wont work on anthracnose but that mango tree did better than the one I used macozeb on.

But there exists another problem hard to control, possums eating off the juvenile foliage keeping the tree defoliated, then pests move in. So I treated with confidor, got rid of the bugs but the possums were still a problem.

I found this interesting article, in this article you can see it wiped the indigenous tree population out and a new resistant species is being introduced.

ScienceDaily: Chestnut Trees To Spread Across Landscape Again, Says Purdue Scientist

Roller · 6th September 2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogweed

I listened to Dr Joan Webber from the UK's Forest Research the other day. The bleeding cankers affecting horse chestnuts in the UK at present are mostly not Phytophera, but Pseudomonas syringae pathovars. Little is known about the pathology of the problem and I would suggest that rushing in and deep mulching, fertilising or pretty much anything else is not wise given how little is understood.

Whilst the prognosis is not good, Dr Webber has seen horse chestnuts infected arrest their decline and live.

It was suggested that if felling / pruning tools should be sterilised afterwards and care should be exercised in the disposal of arisings.

How can decompaction and or verticle mulching etc not be good for a stressed tree?

dogweed · 6th September 2007, 02:20 PM

By benefiting the pathogen more than it benefits the tree.

2nd September 2007, 03:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tim Craig Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 94	Chestnut Problem Hi guys I looked at a Horse Chestnut today that had cankers all the way round it's circumference. It also has chestnut leaf blotch - Guidnardia aesculi. The client wants to save it, I said I may be able to prolong it's life by lifting the turf around it and replacing with fertilizer and mulch. No pruning is needed. The cankers will be choking the vascular system or at least restricting the flow of nutrients up, sugars down etc. I also suggested complete removal and replace with new trees. Is there anything else I could do? The client loves her tree.

2nd September 2007, 09:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,649	Re: Chestnut Problem I take it (since you make no mention of it) that there are no targets under this tree or within the impact zone if it were to fail at the base?? More information required Tim...pics would be nice too. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

3rd September 2007, 12:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Chestnut Problem Forestry Commission - News - horse chestnut survey launched http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/bleed...dingcanker.pdf Forest Research - Bleeding Canker of Horse Chestnut - Advice on disease management From what I have read sounds like you're flogging a dead horse. Although improving health and vigour will delay it appears no remedy in sight and the problem in UK is on the rise etc. Just the way nature goes sometimes Tim, the more information you have and research the more likely your customer is to know the outcome. Seems to have stumped the experts too. In this post you can see another of our usually tough cadaghi's dropped dead. http://www.treeworld.info/8949-post44.html Fungal cankers, the eternal enemy of trees. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

3rd September 2007, 01:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,649	Re: Chestnut Problem Lets not loose sight of the fact that cankers are secondary factors in tree decline, trees and cankers have evolved together of millions of years, and for each individual tree the presence of fungal spores outside and inside their tissues is a constant pressure with which they have to deal.....being able to identify and at least manage if not treat the primary causes, now thats the aim. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

3rd September 2007, 05:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Chestnut Problem Funny thing about it is why do some trees succumb and others not, like the two I had side by side. And why is there all of a sudden an epidemic when there never was before? 30 kids in a class, all exposed to a cold virus, some kids have time off, some get the sniffles and some dont get anything. Scientists still haven't worked it out, they have tried diets, fitness etc but there's no real 100% nailed answer. Pics would be ideal for this one, also that canker is not just nailing the old trees over there, search Google a bit and you'll see it's taking young ones out to, so somethings going on. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

3rd September 2007, 07:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Roller Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Suffolk UK Posts: 206	Re: Chestnut Problem The tree has phytothora [bleeding cankers] no need to TD it simply requires a good PHC man, it will require decompaction and macro and micro nutrient injection..

3rd September 2007, 12:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Chestnut Problem Why are all these chestnuts getting cankers? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

3rd September 2007, 01:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,649	Re: Chestnut Problem Tim its inadvisable to apply treatments without knowing exactly what it is you are dealing with...you really need to take comprehensive soil root and leaf samples and have them assayed to establish just what is going on in the soil food web. Its more difficult for you being in the UK, but get friendly with some microbiologists at your local uni or college...over here we use SFI labs, they're also set up in the US, but not in the UK as yet. Even very serious infections are treatable with antagonistic fungal combinations, boosting the beneficial microfauna and flora of the soil also has major benefits for tree health and vigour without the very negative impacts of fertilisers...personally I would caution against fertilising declining trees. Application of the identified fungi and fungal foods can be done through soil drenching and foliar sprays including the bark. Shigo used to often comment that when he was touring around the world delivering presentations he would be presented with numerous cases of "new pathogenic plagues" be they fungi or bacteria, his feelings were that these fungi if exotic to the region/country could move rapidly through tree populations previously unexposed to that strain, but that the biology of trees has evolved to deal with the mechanisms of infection utilised by both fungi and bacteria, and what was being observed by Arborists was not some previously unknown natural pathogen but rather the culmination of a range of factors driven most forcefully by the impact of human activities. Phytophora is a real problem everywhere in the world for those who plant grow and manage vegetation, but its life cycle is understood. Limiting its impact on tree populations is possible I believe, but dependant on how much resource is to be committed to that effort....to some degree comes back around to the oft discussed issue of when is a tree no longer worth retaining. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

5th September 2007, 01:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
dogweed I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK Posts: 3	Re: Chestnut Problem I listened to Dr Joan Webber from the UK's Forest Research the other day. The bleeding cankers affecting horse chestnuts in the UK at present are mostly not Phytophera, but Pseudomonas syringae pathovars. Little is known about the pathology of the problem and I would suggest that rushing in and deep mulching, fertilising or pretty much anything else is not wise given how little is understood. Whilst the prognosis is not good, Dr Webber has seen horse chestnuts infected arrest their decline and live. It was suggested that if felling / pruning tools should be sterilised afterwards and care should be exercised in the disposal of arisings.

5th September 2007, 02:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
matty f Sappling Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 13	Re: Chestnut Problem not nice this disease! also chesnut leaf miner is also ravaging trees around my way. some few trees ive found with it recover mostly all others dont ,as soon as you notice any form of trunk gurdling remove it as ive been called out to a few that the stems have snapped due to the nature of the dead and alive wood of horse chesnut not been a good supportive structure for a whole tree crown. Ive tryed repollarding old pollards that had not been touched for 10+ years as only the regrown stems where gurdled,they came back nice but now have horse chesnut leaf miner on the regrowth! I also pollared a mature one that was badly infected and had started gurdling as the customer did not want it felled and hoped the mutalated tree might produce some regrowth that would eventually develope in to a new crown but that died or is very close at the moment, all the other badly infected ones ive come across have been felled,i have tryed pruning out infected branches this seems to be working but there is still weeping legions on the trunk wich to me dont look a good sighn ......ive also found phytopher recently on a few birch ,maples and beach........hey roller do you remember that beach tree i showed you at the top of mr prices garden?im pretty sure thats phytophera have a look when you get up there

5th September 2007, 02:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Chestnut Problem Sounds bad, got a lot of people stumped. What about weather, has it been peculiar for say the last 2 to 3 years? Nothing works on it, all fungicides fail, maybe if you guys can have a few in different locations try some different techniques. Over here our usual tough as nails mango trees have been looking pretty ordinary, seems the tips affected by fungal problems. I tried phosphite and I tried macozeb, the fungus is anthracnose. Now the instructions said phosphite wont work on anthracnose but that mango tree did better than the one I used macozeb on. But there exists another problem hard to control, possums eating off the juvenile foliage keeping the tree defoliated, then pests move in. So I treated with confidor, got rid of the bugs but the possums were still a problem. I found this interesting article, in this article you can see it wiped the indigenous tree population out and a new resistant species is being introduced. ScienceDaily: Chestnut Trees To Spread Across Landscape Again, Says Purdue Scientist __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

6th September 2007, 02:20 PM	#17 (permalink)
dogweed I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK Posts: 3	Re: Chestnut Problem By benefiting the pathogen more than it benefits the tree.