Ceiba emergency

transplant

Thanks for the wonderful forum.

Approximately 11-12 years ago I purchased a ceiba pentandra in a container from a nursey. It spent 5 years in gradually larger containers and then in 2001 I planted it in my yard.
The ceiba did very well, stayed covered in winter months and outgrew its "treehouse" (the structure I built to contain, protect and house its winter cover).
This past winter the ceiba was too large to cover. After a harsh winter I pruned back the obviously dead branches and found only a semi-healthy trunk (2 1/2 inch diameter 2 feet tall) therefor cut the tree down to just above the healthy trunk.
I am afraid that the tree is too stressed to regrow and would value any advise.
I have fertilized with organic bonemeal, water daily and spend time daily nurturing the tree.
We would greatly appreciate help in this emergency time!

Eric Frei

I am I right, you cut it down to a 2.5' high? And at that height this thing is only 2 1/2" dia?

I'd like to see a picture but jee, 12 years for that dismal a result it seems to me get another species.

__________________

transplant

I'll work on the pics loading.
You are right that ceiba is difficult to keep in this climate. Fast growing but subject to weather damage each year.
Naturally it looses its leaves seasonally but it has been with me for all this time.
I am very attached to this tree--albeit not practical for the climate.
I am attempting to sow seeds as well indoors but I will try anything to save this original tree.
thanks in advance.

transplant

these pics were just taken.

Attached Thumbnails

         

Eric Frei

Crikey!

That's bad.

Looks like some rot developing too.

I think about the only chance you got is to whip it off lower, just above ground level and hope it coppices. Then select the best stem from the coppiced stump and look after that.

But personally, I'd be getting rid of it.

__________________

transplant

Thanks for your feedback.
Getting rid of it is not an option for me at this time.
Can you recommend links/posts to read about the coppice process please?
If it's not too much trouble could you explain (or refer me to posts) why you recommend cutting it to the base rather than cutting it a bit higher up?
The tree and I appreciate your help.

Eric Frei

At the base there's likely less chance of rot and seperation as it can build a modified root system. Often the original stump does rot away over time but the coppiced shoot establishes it's own unique root system and has better opportunity to wall off decay.

The trunk is where forces are transfered to the root system, like the mast of a ship a lot of force is taken on the lower portion of the trunk, so you will have bit of a weak spot rotting away with perhaps little amendment to the root system and how the whole thing works together.

Also I assume the objective here is not to annually trim back to the cut point, which is called pollarding.

I do warn, either method is risky for long term structural stability, so I would not be 100% happy with a 50' tree closeby that was either a coppice or stem lop job regrowth, I'd be very careful about managing that regrowth in either case.

__________________

transplant

Is there a link here to arborists in the states?

This is the first year that such drastic issues have occurred which is why I am seeking these drastic solutions.
When I got my tree the trunk branched into a y shape at about the point where it is cut now.
I suspect that my tree has already gone through multiple such injuries and healings based upon the shape and weakness of one of the arms of the Y shape (hope that makes sense).
I tend to believe that the tree had been radically cut back several times prior to coming to me--this is based on the trunk width vs. height ratio when I got my tree and its subsequent growth pattern.
I had the fence built around it after a workman bumped into it and partially broke the weaker arm of the Y.

In that case I used candle wax to seal off the injury and had a great response.

Oddly enough I know several people just south of me that have this type of tree--most of which are much younger and thinner than my tree.
The troubles usually come between the young sapling stage and the mature tree that can withstand the winters. (this is what I have seen)


I am anything but an arborist and my work with plants and trees is mostly intuitional/religious.
Happily I have had mostly beautiful results.
My tree means alot to me and I am determined to help it.
Any and all information will be gratefully recieved.

transplant

Coppicing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we decide to go the route of coppicing it looks like there are no sealers used at the cut/coppiced openning of the base.
Is this correct? Or would that invite rot?
Or wouldn't a healthy base become unhealthy (as in the case of my tree) if left open?
What would be the best tool to use ?

thanks again.

Eric Frei

Use the search features of the forum.

Search wound dressing etc

I really think you should pay for an arborist to go and look at it. Looks buried too deep too, and looks like the top of that cut stem is rotten.

Search via Google like this

Google

__________________

Jeff Darby

To me it looks like your beating a dead horse ...I would just g/l that stump have it ground out and start again..imo..

__________________

Member: Australian Tree Association

Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard !

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

© Jeffrey J Darby 2011

Davo The Terrible

They're great trees those Ceiba's - I have had similar problems when growing mine, only the cold killed it outright, even below ground. Tell me, did you actually get a frost to get that damage? Or was it just cold winds?

transplant

We got several frosts. The base was covered with insullated blankets but the fast-growth branches all died off due to the cold.
The base and diameter has been the only part of the tree that has--since I got the tree--been able to withstand the winters fully.

If I'm "beating a dead horse" then I will find that out after all of my efforts are exhausted but I do not plan to throw in the towel untill I get no result for at least the season.
I plan to keep at it so as to give the tree the highest possinility to stay alive.
I understand it seems like excessive effort for an iffy result but that is something i'm willing to do.
In the past years the tree has been covered from late october/early november through early april/may depending on the weather predictions of that year and has grown back against all odds.
I've researched coppicing and have a better understanding but not as much as the people here.
It is my understanding that I would need mto recut the base lower down near the root/base and seal off the wound...then pray.
Is that correct?

transplant

...did some more work with the tree trying to give the trunk/root beginning more space and air (as per ekka's suggestion).
I don't want to over-do it though.
Davo-might you have pictures of the ceiba's you've tried to grow? Especially the trunk bottom and beginning of root system? And how it looks when the tree is planted at correct depth?
Since ceiba's trunk grows in a bowed fashion I want to make sure that I do not over expose the lower trunk/start of roots that want to be covered.
The good news is that there is moist live tissue in the trunk.
Recut it to the live tissue, sealed the cut and will refertilize tomorrow with blood meal.

transplant

At the risk of being tiresome, here are today's pictures.

Attached Thumbnails

           

   

Eric Frei

Keep us informed.

Good luck, put some mulch down too, but keep it say 2" away from the trunk, spread it maybe 3' radius.

Chunky mulch is best

__________________

transplant

thank you.
I'll post any results.

Davo The Terrible

I only have small ones in pots at the moment - I can still take a photo if you would like, but they don't even have their prickles yet.

transplant

I would greatly appreciate seeing pics of your ceibas--at your convenience of course.

I canvassed my town and managed to annoy several tree companies none of whom had heard of the ceiba.
I bought one of each thing each company wanted to sell me--won't use it all but wanted to at least pay for their time.
On my last stop I finally got the name of the one certified arborist in a 50 mile radius of me.

Now I have blood meal(12-0-0); tree "spikes" (by miracle grow); and fish emullsion (5-1-1) in addition to many uninformed opinions. Argh.

Sorry for all the questions Davo but what type of soil are you growing ceiba in? What type of fertilizer do you use?
Any pointers would be greatly valued.

thanks.

Davo The Terrible

Here is a pic.
I just grow them in cheap potting mix, and use a bit of Seasol and cheap standard chemical fertiliser - nothing special. I have planted them out into sandy soils and clay soils with good results. I think the most important thing about growing these trees is already quite obvious: don't let them get frosted!
But in all seriousness, the only other thing that comes to mind is that they seem to be particularly sensitive to root disturbance. It doesn't seem to kill them, but it does put them into shock for a few months.
It is amazing how fast they grow though - one I planted in a paddock this year managed to keep up with the grass, it grew about 6 foot in 2 months! (It did have some help from a leaking sewer main nearby - they look after infrastructure well in Ipswich).

Attached Thumbnails

 

transplant

Thanks Davo. That is a beautiful ceiba you have.

I will continue to try getting ine back on its feet and update any news.

As always the insights and info is much appreciated.