Candlenut Tree doomed

Sunny

Hi,

I am in Noosa and have a Candlenut Tree which I am very fond of, but it seems my neighbors are not, they are pressuring me to have it removed. I must say the neighbors have had an Arborist out and his report states that there is nothing wrong with the tree but as it is surrounded by concrete driveways, it will start to cause damage to these hard areas within 3 - 5 years. The recommendation was to have it removed.

It is on my Body Corporate land, we are a duplex site and the other owner is the one instigating the removal of the Candlenut, they have managed to get our neighbors to start sending me nasty body corporate letters about how the Candlenut tree is a danger to anyone entering their property, causes floods and is generally reeking havoc on their lives.

I have suggested that they remove what branches are overhanging their property but it's the whole tree that all want removed.

Am I being stubborn and ignorant, should the tree go, will it lift concrete driveways in a few years time, crack retaining walls and cause major flooding?? I really feel like I am being blindsided on this matter as they have been at me for months now trying every trick in the book.

I have taken notice of the arborist report, but I did have a tree surgeon around and he thought the tree was fine, maybe trim some branches, but not full removal. What do I do, if we get a cyclone this season and the thing comes down on my neighbors property am I going to be liable?

Thanks for any advice you may offer..

Sunny.

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stirmantrees

i would think you need a ARBORIST REPORT of your own. not a coerced one or one that just says what you want, all though he/she may find the tree is fine. Consulting arborist must carry insurance for there services so that if they say its HEALTHY, then they put there money where there mouth is in the event it blows over and litigation ensues. Always check insurance docs
On the matter of the concrete that will have many factors. lets see what others say.
Cant go wrong with a good Consultant Arborist. You may not like what you hear though and they do charge a fair wage for there precious time. but it may give you some leverage to keep the tree.... especially if its healthy and in good structural shape.

i see this all the time.
maybe you should think of planting an appropiate tree away from the fence now in case you do lop it. A tree you understand how big it is going to get, is it hearty, native, drought tolorent, etc...

Eric Frei

They can get big.

If concrete paths and slabs are the typical 100mm thick laying on top of the soil slabs the roots can get under them and as the roots grow in diameter lift the path etc.

If the tree fails in a sotrm etc you are not liable unless you failed to act upon a clearly identified hazard (negligence).

The recipient of the tree parts in a storm claim it on their own insurance. For example a 100' gum tree lands on the neighbours house, it's the neighbours problem. Not saying that's fair but that's the law unless the tree was severly defective to which a "reasonable person" would have been expected to act (negligence). If the tree was in a report that said it was structurally sound and it went over anyway, that's life, it happens to perfectly sound trees too. If the report said it was structurally unsound and defective plus should be removed and you failed to act ... negligence on your part. Where the victims insurance picks up the tab and negligence exists expect them to sue you only if financially viable, tell your insurance company though as many policies carry some cover for things like this.

At the end of the day you'll see many posts of mine saying things like, it's your tree and don't take over your neighbours yard above or below the ground with it, keep it within your own yard. There is also private nuisance laws under which neighbours can get lawyers to write to you asking for the nuisance to be abated (falling nuts, slippery leaves, mould & mildew, blocking sun, solar interference, etc etc. If the neighbour has mentioned their concerns about concrete etc and you do nothing, and concrete does get lifted, then expect to pay for the repairs as you were advised but failed to act.

You need to decide and many times the decision has littel to do with the health or integrity of the tree, it has a lot to do with quality of life and living there with your neighbours.

I refer to quality of life as people right to live as they choose, some choose to live with trees and some without, when either imposes their own values upon differing others expect conflict.

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Sean Freeman

Hello Sunny,

In my experience Candlenut trees can grow very big given ideal growing conditions, they can become a majestic tree.

It would seem the location of your tree will prevent it from ever attaining such dimensions; this should not prevent you from enjoying its amenity along your fence line - as well as delivering all the benefits trees can provide to all your friendly neighbours.

The information given by other regarding relative responsibilities and potential liabilities is accurate.

I have known neighbours in Queensland to take these matters to court and then I am afraid the outcome is less predictable, unless the prediction is that solicitors make a good living from arguments of perspective played out in court.

Some advice though if you decide to retain the tree and your neighbours push to have current and future root growth restricted I would only accept impacts on the root system of that tree that conform with the specifications written within AS4970 Protection of trees on development sites.

Eric Frei

yeah, they're real friendly by the sounds of it, they'd retain the tree only to find a spot to place the noose.

Cheers

Mr Other

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Sean Freeman

Hmmm meant to write others.

shaun05

Of course if it does damage the neighbours drive it is possible that you will need to pay for the repairs but that is likely to be less than the cost of removing the tree. If you wanted to get creative you could always have the replacement driveway engineered to avoid any chance future damage. If routine repairs and maintenance are averaged over the life of the tree the costs are unlikely to be prohibitive.

Sunny

Thanks for your input and good advice STIRMANTREES, (that isn’t a candlenut tree in your avatar is it?), EKKA, SEAN, SHAUN 05 and MR OTHER!!

I have seriously mulled over all your advice and am still having a hard time coming to terms with the removal of the Candlenut Tree. So, I am including some more pic’s and a rundown of the report from the Arborist and some details from my neighbors who are hell bent on having this tree removed.
Firstly, the Arborist. He has done a Visual Tree Assessment to ascertain the likelihood of structural damage to property and any other hazard issues to people or property. Tree stats. Height approx 18 metres, DBH approx 750 mm ACD approx 12 metres.

His findings: The tree is a healthy and vigorous specimen. No trunk defects and no defects in the upper crown, although there is some crown sparsening as a result from drought stress. He has inspected the concrete retaining wall and concrete apron on the neighbouring property and found no movement. He says that Candlenuts are known to fail at branch collars and crotches.
He goes on to say that in 3 – 5 years substantial damage is likely to occur to the hardscapes next door. He says that our concrete driveway will suffer damage in 2 – 3 years.

Based on past experience and proximity to hardscapes he believes the likelihood of structural damage is high from the root system for both properties and that removal of the tree is the best course of action.

Now, my neighbours have sent me a letter saying that the leaves and nuts are hazardous to people entering the property and the roots are invading the plumbing, causing the front fence to crack, the garage and storage areas are being damaged and the leaves and nuts also block there drain and cause it to flood. They go on to say that they feel the removal of the nasty candlenut tree would be advantageous to all parties...all except my party and ‘3 legged Jimmy’ the possum that lives in the tree and George the carpet snake that resides there sometimes. (My missus names the critters).

Then there is the owner of the other duplex on my lot, the one that has been stirring up the neighbours, the one that has used every excuse known to man to get me to agree to having the candlenut removed. Oh, the lies....the lies!!! Basically, their latest letter has the report from the Arborist attached and this little gem that I quote ‘ I would like you to reconsider the removal of this tree as myself and the neighbours all consider this tree to be a danger.’ This would be contrary to the experts report attached to their letter. Hmmmm.

Can you see why I do not want to give in, I am being harassed I feel. Of course I do realize that from what advice I have been given here I may have to agree...but not just yet!! Maybe in a year or 2.
As for the pictures I have included, In pic 1 I have red ‘X’s on 2 branches which I suggested ages ago to have removed from the tree as the one on the left is the only branch overhanging the neighbour’s property. Not good enough...the whole tree or nothing.

In pic 2 you can see the horrible problem being caused by the Candlenut tree, note the leaves. Nasty!! I have included this pic because even though this is not a plumbing site, it shows what a joke the whole flooding damage thing is next door. I know it is a joke because I used to own a unit in this complex and was involved in trying to sort out the nightmare of collecting tropical rainfall off 170 sq metres of concrete into a little spoondrain and trying to get it out of the property by sending it up hill to the street. Much money was spent trying to solve this problem and now the poor old candlenut is being blamed. Damn those neighbours.
Thanks for listening to my rant and any advice, serious or otherwise is much appreciated.

Sunny...or should I say Gloomy!! Now to

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Eric Frei

Don't be surprised to find it dying one day, often things like this end up with a little round up to speed things along.

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stirmantrees

thats tough.
what a job with the development. i personally wold not buy a house with a driveway that slants towards my garage
but i live in hurricane central and flooding is always a concern.

well, you could cut it down and throw a barbacue and have instant chance at being the next president elect on the community board.

or you fight it and everyone hates you even more. If that tree wasnt so evil......

tough call. these gentlemen are good at this so take there observations seriously.

just think it out and maybe getting along with the neighbors is the best option or........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ well. just a thought

Sean Freeman

Hello Sunny,

Since it has been pouring with rain in the dry tropics and my painting job is on a temp hold till things dry out a little bit, I'll give you my take on what you have written.

This is a very ill advised and poorly phrased statement, it might be his opinion based on his experience....but that is slightly (but importantly) different to the quote you provided.

In my experience of the legal process in Queensland the dropping of leaves, flowers, fruit, seeds or small elements of deadwood by urban trees is not in itself justification for ordering removal of or intervention with an urban tree.

These things are considered normal maintenance associated with the amenity services provided by trees in an urban environment. Having leafy suburbs is part of the desired environmental outcomes of Noosa just as it is for all LGA's in the country.

Simple and cheap examination will provide evidence of that if it is in fact occuring.

Again this is not too hard to establish one way or the other.

This may well be true; some or all of your neighbours may honestly believe the tree is a threat to their property and themselves. Sadly it is my experience that the general perception of risk from significant harm as a result of the failure of a tree or its parts greatly exceeds the calculation of the risk being posed by a tree such as your Candlenut...something brought out by the Arborists report comissioned by your neighbours.

How you move forward is really up to you....your tree certainly has the potential to signficantly impact unreinforced concrete slabs formed without adequate subgrade stablisation. Future root growth may well take advantage of older damaged or poorly installed stormwater pipework.

None of those things are certain, they can be managed without the removal of the tree....the problem is that such management will cost money and does not provide your neighbours with what they are telling you they want...the tree gone.

Eric is right small minded people can and do engage in criminal damage on the property of others ie: poison a tree that does not belong to them without the permission of the owner. I have had to provide assistance in a few such cases; identifying the chemicals used is relatively simple...identifying the criminal who applied the chemical is far more difficult.

If your neighbours will not come to some kind of accomodation with you and your tree then they do have the legal right to remove any branches growing over the property boundary (please remember that fences do not always indicate the location of the boundary...NB: this can work for or against the tree)

When it comes to roots growing across the property boundary things are less clear-cut!


Clearly with your tree...in fact with most trees growing on fence lines cutting to the fence line will effectively destroy the tree...not very helpful advice from the legal profession there then....

The intention of the current blurred legal position in Queensland is to permit neighbours to talk to each other and come to some agreed position...in an ideal world!

Sunny

Ekka - Thanks again, Roundup is a distinct possibility I guess, I really hope it doesn't come to that. I promise to come to my senses before that happens!!

Stirmantrees - yes, I do take these guys advice seriously. Thanks for your input too.

Sean Freeman - Sorry to hear your in limbo with the rain, but I am kinda glad as your time and advice is sorely welcome. Thanks for that. More to mull over tonight with the little lady. I think we know the final outcome will be the loss of the tree.

We just hope this is not the start of them trying to get rid of all the trees that line the front of our property, the tropical almonds could be next on their hit list! I love those trees, not so much in winter when they drop those huge leaves everywhere. I'm thinking maybe the whole street hate us for that tree!!!!

Happy New Year to you all and thanks again...most insightful and helpful.

Sunny. Huggin my Candlenut tree goodbye.....

Eric Frei

No worries, you know we do this for the love of it, no-one pays us and it's all voluntary. Many of us donate 100's of hours of knowledge, information, diagrams, sketches, videos, PDF's etc for free .... pretty good eh. Tell your friends about it, what pleases most of us is that you respect our time and our advice, no strings attached and no fees payable.

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